Rep U.s. Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Of Arizona Shot

[Ed Normile]

Did you hear about that shooting in Arizona .......

ed

[AudreyGrace]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294977374' post='2199939']
Did you hear about that shooting in Arizona .......

ed
[/quote]

shooting? in Arizona? what is this madness you speak of?

[4588686]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294975002' post='2199926']
They helped unnecessarily slaughter tens of thousands. The Soviet Union was collapsing because of its very nature, as a system contradictory to human nature.[/QUOTE]

Which is why China also collapsed in the 1990's? The Soviet Union collapsed for a number of reasons. The Afghan war was not the single cause of the collapse but it was a significant factor. It drained the USSR of money, had important effects on the political topology of the Soviet Union, and demonstrated deterioration of the once mighty Red Army.



[QUOTE]Shariah law is incompatible with voluntaryism.[/QUOTE]

I understand that. Qutb was a strange mixture of Islamic theocracy, Leninist Utopianism, and other forces. He was not an anarchist in the sense as has been developed by modern day, post-enlightenment, Western thought, but he was a theocratic anarchists of sorts. A central piece of his mission was that Islam is an absolute uncoerced choice and that the mission of Islam was to rid the world of all oppression and tyrrany. No man should ever have to be subject to any law save God's. I'm not saying that his theory was internally consistent.


[QUOTE]Violent resistance at this stage would be counterproductive.[/QUOTE]

At what stage would it be productive?



[QUOTE]What abnormal life would you have me live? I want specifics, Hassan. What do I have to do in order to live up to your idea of what a voluntaryist should accomplish?



Ever heard the phrase, "more useful alive than dead?" Is it a compromise of your belief that robbery is wrong if you surrender [i]your[/i] money to a thug with a gun to your head? Would you take the radical route of saying, "Blackguard! Rogue! You have no moral right to do this to me! Fiend! Unhand me, I say," whereupon you would receive a somewhat less-than-eloquent response in the form of a bullet in your head?

I do not see how living in a hut in the boonies (while admittedly quaint and picturesque) would further the spread of voluntaryist thought, any more than Ted Kaczynski living in a hut and performing his "radical" actions furthered [i]luddite[/i] thought. I don't think Tolstoy's love of the peasants contradicted his detestation of the State that helped keep them impoverished. One can love cats, but one does not have to eat mice in order to become "consistent" with one's love of cats. Am I a hypocrite if I say that the religious life is the most preferable course of action, yet do not myself become a priest? Certainly not. Not all are called to the priesthood or the religious life. That does not mean that it is not true that the religious life is the most preferable state of life. It is not for everyone. But I do not see how these comparisons are applicable to an ideologically and practically synthesized anarchist life. Jesus lived 33 years before he died. He had things he needed to accomplish before it was time for him to be killed. (Not directed at you, Hassan, as you are a bit more logical than the average bear: "Uh oh, I'm obviously comparing the importance of my beliefs and "teachings" to those of Jesus, Our Lord and Savior.")



American society probably would have abolished slavery without bloodshed by the 1870's. (As evidenced by every other country in the Western hemisphere which had done so with little to no bloodshed.) But by 1865, American society was a bit too fatigued to keep the institution going, as you can probably imagine.



So, Hassan, specifics. What do you think a "good anarchist" must do in order to be consistent? Should everyone be a John Brown and get slaughtered, or are there other, more effective ways of undermining and eradicating immoral institutions? Should "Publius" have acted in different ways than they did, or would you not agree that the publication of the Federalist Papers was, in itself, a tremendous contribution to their common cause? Should Harriet Beecher Stowe have written [i]Uncle Tom's Cabin, [/i]or should she have gone the John Brown route and gotten killed beforehand? Is Ed Brown doing a lot for the anti-tax movement sitting in prison, separated from his wife? Hassan, what do I have to do in order to correspond to my "radical beliefs?" Keep in mind that efficacy, not showboating, is of the essence.

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

Alright. I'm pretty tired right now, so I may regret this tomorrow, but point(s) taken (regarding the role of the anarchist in modern society, not the comments about slavery in America and the civil war, which I do disagree with). I was wrong and presumptuous to suggest that your actions were logically inconsistent with your professed beliefs and to question how 'deeply' you 'felt' your beliefs.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Hasan

[liseski]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294967226' post='2199858']
Liberal and Conservative expectations and policies are so far off those of canadian ones, they really only share a name, my ideas on politics far from mirror those of the american Liberals, they just line up a bit better than those of the American Conservatives.
[/quote]

True dat.
I find even liberal Democrats a bit tight.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1294967226' post='2199858']
Cool story bro. Lets face facts, the only way you would ever consider my opinion "informed" is if it mirrored yours exactly.[/quote]
Well, that would certainly be a step in the right direction!

At least you wouldn't babble about regular calls for beheadings on FOX news and Christian plots to overthrow the Constitution.

[quote]My concern over Obama? honestly, he is majorly disappointing to me. And i have said that many many times here, glad you were listening. I dont think he is the worldly embodiment of Satan and Stalin's lovechild like most of you guys do, so when you post your opinions on the guy, mine dont often line up. the fact that I defend Obama against accusations of being Hitler-Stalin does not mean that i approve of the guy.[/quote]
Now that's just silly. We all know you're right and George W. Bush is the worldly embodiment of Satan and Sarah Palin is Hitler's lovechild.

Note that I never accused you of Obama-worship. I'm just saying that for someone so worried about America's world policies, you largely ignore the people actually in charge, and focus a lot instead on people who really have no say in federal government policy.

[quote]In 2008 i would have voted for Obama(more likely a 3rd party independent) but only as the lesser(in my mind) of two evils. Liberal and Conservative expectations and policies are so far off those of canadian ones, they really only share a name, my ideas on politics far from mirror those of the american Liberals, they just line up a bit better than those of the American Conservatives.
[/quote]
Funny, from what I've seen, the main difference between American and Canadian liberals is geography.
Of course, some day you might post something to change my mind.

[quote]I have posted several times recently(well, before my month long vacation) about recent policy changes, in most of them i expressed disappointment with the actions of both sides, with the nod going to the republicans for being a bit worse(Gee what a freaking surprise, a liberal disliking conservative policy. like that is some sort of bias, if i liked conservative policy, then i wouldnt be a liberal). However, given the general lack of major policy changes recently, due to political deadlock, all that is really left to discuss is the conduct of the various parties. I am quite happy tohttp://www.phatmass.com/phorum/index.php?showtopic=110214 comment on conduct, because unlike policy, being a jerk is universal, canadian and american.
[/quote]
Your postings are public for all to see. I can read them. All there is to discuss is silly cheap-shots at Sarah Palin. Nothing else out there.

Yes, we're all jerks on both sides of the border. Gives me a warm feeling of universal brotherhood.

[quote]The conservatives set Sarah Palin up as a media darling, hype her every word, get her a TV show, spot on a news channel, and put her a heart attack away from being a potential president, and people are surprised when she is talked about.[/quote]
Sarah Palin set herself up as a public media figure. I last saw of cover story about her on [i]Time[/i] magazine, not exactly known as a right-wing mouthpiece. And you seem determined to do your part to aid the media saturation y bringing her up in every thread you can. As for "the conservatives," some like her, some don't. My feelings are mixed myself, but I'd vote for her over Obama or any other lib-Dem clown they run.
As a media darling, she ain't got nothin' on Dear Leader, of course, though his star is fast fading.

[quote]Tea Party? heck i probably would have voted for Ron Paul, the libertarian founder of the original Tea Party, had i known more about him. The basic ideals he put into place, i find a good bit of common ground with. to a certain extent, the modern Tea Party pays lipservice to those ideas, but I have yet to see evidence that the majority of the Tea Party nowadays arent just Fringe GOP members.
[/quote]
Interesting. Maybe I'm wrong and your politics aren't so much leftist as schizoid.
Ron Paul's libertarian laissez-faire limited government ideals are pretty much the polar opposite of what you post on here.
You can correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you generally see more government regulation, involvement and "oversight" to be the cure to all our ills - at least on the economic level.

But then, maybe you've seen the light since then.

[Socrates]

[quote name='liseski' timestamp='1295022876' post='2200052']
True dat.
I find even liberal Democrats a bit tight.
[/quote]
From my experience, Canadiens are just like liberal Yankees but more so.

Same general fear and loathing of guns and religion, same love of big government, "progressive" social causes, and socialized everything.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1294969785' post='2199875']
I can point to individuals who hold radical beliefs on par with yours. All of them followed these radical conclusions with radical actions. Not necessairly mass atrocities like Bin Laden, or even targeted violence, like the Russian anarchists of the 19th century, but usually radical, life transforming actions on some scale. Something that fundamentally removes them from the illegitimate society they seek to transform.
[/quote]
Anarchists used to do cool stuff like throw bombs.

Now they mostly just whine a lot on teh interwebz.

Oh the times! Standards have indeed fallen.

[Socrates]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1294977374' post='2199939']
Did you hear about that shooting in Arizona .......

ed
[/quote]
Say what? Someone was shot?!

[dominicansoul]

[size="6"]I hear doctors are having Giffords sit up on the side of her bed today. This is a huge accomplishment for someone who was just shot in the head![/size]

[size="7"]PRAISE JESUS CHRIST![/size]

Edited January 14, 2011 by dominicansoul

[liseski]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1295031602' post='2200087']
From my experience, Canadiens are just like liberal Yankees but more so.

Same general fear and loathing of guns and religion, same love of big government, "progressive" social causes, and socialized everything.
[/quote]

Pigeonhole, much?
You'd like Alberta. You'd feel right at home there.

[Socrates]

[quote name='liseski' timestamp='1295034665' post='2200101']
Pigeonhole, much?
You'd like Alberta. You'd feel right at home there.
[/quote]
Pigeonholing's fun. Just ask J-lol.

It's always cute when Canadians argue for their own uniqueness.

Why go to Alberta? It's cold enough in Texas.

[BG45]

[url="http://www.kvoa.com/news/ron-barber-giffords-district-director-leaves-hospital/"]Shooting victim Ron Barber leaves hospital[/url]!

[kujo]

You people are dumb.

Stop arguing about your redonkulous political nonsense and say a rosary thanking God for delivering this woman from the grave. And maybe toss in a prayer or two for the other victims and their families.

Here's a new rule: for every stupid, self-aggrandizing comment you make, you've gotta say a prayer for someone involved in this shooting. Give the contents of this post, I've got a handful of prayers to make for myself. Let's all follow the leader, now...

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='kujo' timestamp='1295057175' post='2200194']
You people are dumb.

Stop arguing about your redonkulous political nonsense and say a rosary thanking God for delivering this woman from the grave. And maybe toss in a prayer or two for the other victims and their families.

Here's a new rule: for every stupid, self-aggrandizing comment you make, you've gotta say a prayer for someone involved in this shooting. Give the contents of this post, I've got a handful of prayers to make for myself. Let's all follow the leader, now...
[/quote]

i agree with this comment and i need to make prayers as well...

[size="1"]good job kujo.. [/size]

[kujo]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1295063774' post='2200220']
i agree with this comment and i need to make prayers as well...

[size="1"]good job kujo.. [/size]
[/quote]

I tries to keeps it reeelz.

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='Socrates' timestamp='1295031883' post='2200088']
Anarchists used to do cool stuff like throw bombs.
Now they mostly just whine a lot on teh interwebz.
Oh the times! Standards have indeed fallen.
[/quote]

Socrates, try some charity.

I'm not an anarchist in the flawed Chestertonian understanding, but an anarchist in the way Tolkien understood it when he said, "My political opinions lean more and more toward anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs)."

~Sternhauser

Edited January 15, 2011 by Sternhauser

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1295128922' post='2200474']
Socrates, try some charity.

I'm not an anarchist in the flawed Chestertonian understanding, but an anarchist in the way Tolkien understood it when he said, "My political opinions lean more and more toward anarchy (philosophically understood, meaning abolition of control not whiskered men with bombs)."

~Sternhauser
[/quote]

<------------- This is what I end up doing at school trying to explain, since my political views (shared with you, Stern) are too often assumed of what they are. I don't even bother anymore and most of my peers talk about my own views then I do....


And I agree with Tolkien's quote, and I have read the whole letter that is from and it is fantastic.

Edited January 15, 2011 by ThePenciledOne

[Winchester]

[quote name='Sternhauser' timestamp='1294975002' post='2199926']
What do you think a "good anarchist" must do
[/quote]
Do you have a mohawk?

[Sternhauser]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1295135348' post='2200510']
And I agree with Tolkien's quote, and I have read the whole letter that is from and it is fantastic.
[/quote]

Penciled, it was definitely a fantastic letter.

~Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

Guys can we stop throwing the word anarchist around, everytime I see it I have to do a double take as it at first looks like antichrist to me. Why do we not just agree to use malcontent or nihilist instead?

ed