Who Wants To Make Me A Catholic First? Lol.

[hyperdulia again]

Milk...sorry...

If Christ is present in the Eucharist, what possible justification can there be to not worship Him? Fear that maybe He isn't? I know that you have recieved the Blessed Sacrament before (without knowing you weren't allowed), but when you come to the Altar trusting the Bible, trusting the Church, and trusting two millennia of Christian teaching there will be no doubts in your mind about whether or notyou should worship the Eucharist, or even whether or not you would be willinng to die for what looks like bread and wine.

[willguy]

[quote name='Jake Huether' date='Apr 20 2004, 05:38 PM'] I don't know if it's heresy...

But Jesus has two natures, human and Divine.  So His soul is Human and Divine and His Body is human and Divine.  You can't say that just his soul was Divine.  Jesus was fully God fully man.  His human Body was also fully Divine.  So when He died, His soul was seperated from His Body, as is what happens to us all.  But His Divinity was not seperated from His Body.  God died, and God rose.  If you say that only His human Body died, and not His Divine Body as well, then you deny that God had to die (which I believe is heresy).

Hope that made sense. [/quote]
Thankx Jake.

Wow, a quintuple post by hyper. That's gotta be a new record or somethin. Makes a good point though.

[myduwigd]

hey Brother here's a good book about an extreme Protestant's conversion to Catholicism thru study and prayer: Rome Sweet Home, by Scott and Kimberly Hahn
oh ya, God bless you iron monk, your logic made a lot of sense!

[God Conquers]

God recognized the fact that we as physical beings need to worship in a physical way. He gives us the most intimate gift of "being with us always" in the flesh, but more than that as physically inside us.

Put another way (and this kinda sounds gross if you take it the wrong way, but this is serious and sacred):

In heaven we will be totally united with God, in complete joy and intimacy with Him.
He wants to give us signs and tastes of that intimacy here on earth.

Sexual intercourse is the most intimate physical and spiritual connection we can have with another human being here on earth, and involves the complete giving of one to another. It produces fruit on earth in creating future generations.

We know that this is mirrored in the intimate Divine life of God. As the father gives totally to the sun, and the fruit of their union is the Holy Spirit.

In the same way the Eucharist is the most complete intimacy, spiritual and physical, that we can have with God here on earth. He gives himself totally to us, and we recieve. The fruit of this union is spiritual, we are compelled to live our lives in greater union with God, by serving Him.

God is so great, that he recognizes and caters to all of our needs, and signifies them in the sacraments.

[willguy]

[quote name='myduwigd' date='Apr 20 2004, 11:10 PM'] hey Brother here's a good book about an extreme Protestant's conversion to Catholicism thru study and prayer: Rome Sweet Home, by Scott and Kimberly Hahn
oh ya, God bless you iron monk, your logic made a lot of sense! [/quote]
Pretty sure he's already read it.

GC, nice post! Reminds me of what our priest said this weekend about Reconciliation. I'll have to remember to post it some time.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Hope you guys don't mind but I'm cleaning up all the multiple posts on this page.... thats alota posts... lol

[Muschi]

Dear Bro. Adam,

When I first saw the title of this post, my immediate response was God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

But your wrestling with belief in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist prompts me to "challenge" you when you have a moment, to enter a Catholic Church when it is open, and go sit before the tabernacle....you'll recognize it because there will be a lit red candle right next to it which represents that same Presence, and humbly kneel and ask the Holy Spirit to open your eyes and ask Jesus to show you or help you understand all of this better. All of the advice and input you've been given including Scripture has been right on, but it won't mean a thing until YOU can "see" and understand and come to believe it in your heart. I truly believe that if you do this, you will NOT be disappointed. - God bless! - Muschi

[Born Again Catholic]

This question makes me think of Baby Jesus (or even older Jesus) and how hard it would have been for the Jews or gentiles to have enough faith to recognize Jesus, someone who looked like on of them, as God incarnate.

Before I embraced the teachings of the Church, I had some similar issues with the Eucharist. My failure to reach out to God through prayer was my major stumbling block. I doubt that is an issue for you, Adam but I will share my story anyway.

Intellectually I knew the Catholic faith was true but I could not feel it in my heart. I struggled with it greatly and sought the opinion of the experts, by reading everything I could get a hold of, creating a fabulous library of Catholic thought. In the meantime my wife who was Baptist went through the RCIA program and embraced Jesus in the Eucharist without hesitation, while my heart was cold.

One Sunday I was feeling especially sorry for my self when I saw that the priest who was about to give mass was one I had thought was especially dry. I thought the Mass was incredibly dull anyway and that I got nothing out of it and I was actually upset that I had to listen to this priest.

All of a sudden the enormity of my own ingratitude hit me. God had given me a truly wonderful life and yet I gave him almost nothing in return. I studied about him but I did not sincerely show my love for Him through praise and prayer. At that moment I decided rather than asking God to make the Mass meaningful for me, I would give God that one hour at Mass, I would praise Him and adore Him with all that I had inside me. The Mass instantly became alive for me, I was praising God with all my heart and I was totally filled with joy.

Then the Eucharist prayer began, I had finally given myself to God and now I realized that God was truly offering Himself to me. Tears of joy streamed down my face as I went of to receive the Eucharist for the first time truly recognizing Jesus in the breaking of the Bread.

God Bless

Edited April 21, 2004 by Born Again Catholic

[point5]

I have just began my new journy of starting to research more about my Catholic faith, and the early church fathers. Here are some things I found interesting reguarding the Eucharist.

In Scott Hahn's book "A Father Who Keeps His Promises" he discusses the five major covenants throughout sacred Scripture:adam,noah,abraham,moses,and Jesus. He teaches covenant as not a contract or exchange of property, but covenant is an exchange of persons...

"I will by your God and you will be my people"

In the New covenant that Christ brings, the covenant family grows to an international level....all jews and Gentiles are called to his table. One thing that struck me in the Eucharist is that to be part of a family...what must you have in common...blood and flesh....genetics....this has helped me in understanding the true presence.

Also I was reading over the first passover during the plagues, and we are all familiar with the typology of the lamb sacrificed preludes to Jesus as the Lamb who will ultimately sacrifice for all to be saved. What struck me was that the instruction was not only to sacrifice the lamb and spread the blood over the door...but also that the lamb shall have "no bone broken" and the family shall eat of it!!!

Lastly Scott Hahn points out in his live conversion testimony that when Jesus recites the passage in John 6 the crowd of thousands that had been following him leaves him and abandons him upon hearing that they must eat his flesch and drink his blood. As a teacher he would have been morally obligated to say no wait...this is only a symbol...but he didnt.... instead he turned to the disciples and said "are you too going to leave me?" It is clear that the crowd did not perceive this as a symbolic meaning. The disciples were still confused...but they followed him...and would understand greater at the Last Supper.

-Kiel

[Brother Adam]

You people rock. Thank you.

I'm on section three now of The Lamb's Supper. And I've been attending weekly mass. Errie. lol.

[Adeodatus]

Dear Br Adam,

Is the Eucharist a sign? Yes, but it's also the reality the sign points to.

Is Jesus present spiritually in the Eucharist? Yes, of course. But this presence is also a real and substantial presence.

Is it appropriate to worship the Eucharist? It's only appropriate to worship God. And the Eucharist is the sacramental presence of Christ our God, present whole and entire in His flesh and blood, His soul and divinity, i.e. the whole Risen Christ mysteriously present to us in the appearances of bread and wine.

I think you know all this. Only one thing remains. You already love Jesus. You just have to recognise Jesus wherever He is. He is in the Eucharist.

When I un-lapsed and came back to the practice of my Faith, the first thing I was convinced of was the Eucharist. I fell in love with Jesus in the Eucharist. After that, the rest was a piece of cake!

[willguy]

[quote name='Adeodatus' date='Apr 21 2004, 05:00 AM'] I fell in love with Jesus in the Eucharist. After that, the rest was a piece of cake! [/quote]
I didn't know that cake was allowed in the current rubrics.

[CatholicAndFanatical]

Hey brother Adam, im sure you have, but have to ask. Did you see the connection between John 6:58-62, and the Last Supper?

Somewhere in John 6 (I dont have it in front of me right now) Before Jesus says "Amen, Amen I say to you that whosoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life", the Jews quarreled amongst themselves..

Ok, I know you know this already but the Jews asked a good question - "How can this man give us His Flesh to eat?"

Jesus answers this at the Last Supper. Holding up the bread and turning it into His body by saying "This IS my Body..."

basically answering the question the Jews, and actually the Apostles as well, asked.

Ok, thats my .001 cents. Im sure you already thought about this, you are a very intelligent man and I commend you on your journey and approach at this.

God Love ya Adam. May the Holy Spirit fill your soul and give you the knowledge and answers you seek.

[homeschoolmom]

Okay... milk answer, but it helped me... God was fully present in the burning bush. Moses hid his face because God was truly present. God was not a burning bush anymore than God is a wafer of bread. But the wholeness of himself was present there. Most protestants won't deny the "Real Presence" in the burning bush, but they do in the Eucharist... double standard...

[homeschoolmom]

Double post...

Edited April 21, 2004 by homeschoolmom

[ilovechrist]

Fanatic--
that should answer the majority of this debate right there in your post.. excellent. as i had said before, many Jews left--for they could not bear the truth of what Jesus said in John 6--and he emphasized it even more at the Last Supper. therefore.. should we not follow his instructions and believe in the Real Presence when it's there?

[point5]

Another way I was once told to look at it is that we as christians believe that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Hard to grasp, as hard as the Eucharist! If we lived in Jesus' day we could have done countless of scientific tests to see whether he was man or God...and all blood results and other test would conclude that he was a man. We know he is God too. The same goes for the Eucharist. Take the host pre and post transubstantiation and we will find the same scientific results with it...merely a wafer. It is the faith that we have from scripture and Tradition that tells us it his actuall body and blood just as Jesus was actually God.

Kiel

[dUSt]

[quote name='point5' date='Apr 21 2004, 09:52 AM'] Another way I was once told to look at it is that we as christians believe that Jesus is 100% man and 100% God. Hard to grasp, as hard as the Eucharist! If we lived in Jesus' day we could have done countless of scientific tests to see whether he was man or God...and all blood results and other test would conclude that he was a man. We know he is God too. The same goes for the Eucharist. Take the host pre and post transubstantiation and we will find the same scientific results with it...merely a wafer. It is the faith that we have from scripture and Tradition that tells us it his actuall body and blood just as Jesus was actually God.

Kiel [/quote]
Very good analogy.

[cmotherofpirl]

We need to copy that to somewhere..O phatcatholic...

[Brother Adam]

ilovechrist,

It is not that simple. If you don't believe me, talk to BobRyan on BaptistBoard. He can tear that argument to shreds.