Quietfire Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='Jake Huether' date='Apr 20 2004, 04:55 PM'] God is the maker of all things. He is who attaches substance to accidents. If he tells me that my silver coin is really gold, then although it may look silver, and although scientifically it is silver, I know, because God told me so. [/quote] Wouldnt this be Faith Walk by Faith, not by sight. If GOD told me that my silver coin was gold, not only would I believe it true because of my faith in GOD...but the coin WOULD be gold. Does this not lead back to all the miracles that Jesus did? Many a time he healed and then said..."Your faith has healed you."
dUSt Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 21 2004, 03:12 PM'] faith is a verb acted out. [/quote] Which makes having faith a work in itself.
willguy Posted April 21, 2004 Posted April 21, 2004 [quote name='dUSt' date='Apr 21 2004, 04:19 PM'] Which makes having faith a work in itself. [/quote] nice.
Quietfire Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 21 2004, 05:12 PM'] faith is a verb acted out. [/quote] I never said that you were arguing Is that why some say the verb that became flesh (in reference to Christ)
theculturewarrior Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote]ilovechrist, It is not that simple. If you don't believe me, talk to BobRyan on BaptistBoard. He can tear that argument to shreds. [/quote] Perhaps it would benefit us all if you would present the arguments. You may have to present the counter-arguments too, as you seem to know them better than us. But I'll try to help if I can.
CatholicAndFanatical Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote] the verb that became flesh (in reference to Christ) [/quote] I've never heard this..you must be using the KJV I think what they mean is to have Faith is to actually DO Something. You are doing an active thing when you have faith. Its not a noun, its a verb, an activity. Faith == verb Faith != noun
theculturewarrior Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 At the risk of exposing my true geekiness, I think perhaps this comes from the Latin phrase, "Verbum Dei," or Word of God. I'm not sure that when John speaks of the Word becoming flesh, that he was speaking of a verb only.
CatholicAndFanatical Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 for real? cool, learn things new everyday..never heard of that. Now I have heard of Verbum Dei...but Word of God. ok, theologians, talk to da noob and tell me what that means "Verb that became flesh"
ilovechrist Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 21 2004, 03:51 PM'] ilovechrist, It is not that simple. If you don't believe me, talk to BobRyan on BaptistBoard. He can tear that argument to shreds. [/quote] ok. i don't talk to BobRyan on the BaptistBoard--i don't go there at all, so i wouldn't know what he does. but i'll try to explain my view on the subject a little more... [i]"I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" ---John 6:51–52[/i] they didn't understand how he could give them his body---but yet he made no correction to what he said. INSTEAD--he emphasizes it eve more here- [i]"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" --John 6:53–56[/i] also, "Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself" 1 Cor. 11:27, 29 why would Paul talk like this to the Corinthians if the bread which we eat and the cup that we drink of were NOT our Lord? he speaks as if whoever eats it without any belief in it will be in some serious trouble... if i'm leading anybody down the wrong way here, someone please correct me on it--i'm trying to learn more as i go along. but BA, if you're going to say that it's not that simple, please explain why and how--i'd really like to know for my own reference.
Brother Adam Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 Eh. That's the problem. I can debate myself into a corner I can't get out of at this point. Really.....its come down to faith. And I just don't know what to have faith in at this point. Protestant or Catholic teachings.
ilovechrist Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 thank you for being honest- at least now i know.
Brother Adam Posted April 22, 2004 Author Posted April 22, 2004 [quote name='ilovechrist' date='Apr 22 2004, 03:23 PM'] ok. i don't talk to BobRyan on the BaptistBoard--i don't go there at all, so i wouldn't know what he does. but i'll try to explain my view on the subject a little more... [i]"I am the living bread which came down from heaven; if any one eats of this bread, he will live for ever; and the bread which I shall give for the life of the world is my flesh.’ The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, ‘How can this man give us his flesh to eat?’" ---John 6:51–52[/i] they didn't understand how he could give them his body---but yet he made no correction to what he said. INSTEAD--he emphasizes it eve more here- [i]"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him" --John 6:53–56[/i] also, "Therefore whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. . . . For any one who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself" 1 Cor. 11:27, 29 why would Paul talk like this to the Corinthians if the bread which we eat and the cup that we drink of were NOT our Lord? he speaks as if whoever eats it without any belief in it will be in some serious trouble... if i'm leading anybody down the wrong way here, someone please correct me on it--i'm trying to learn more as i go along. but BA, if you're going to say that it's not that simple, please explain why and how--i'd really like to know for my own reference. [/quote] They would say that Christ is now glorified and it is only through faith in him that we can be saved. Those that turned away from Christ in John 6 did so because they were faithless and could not understand that Christ was speaking about his blood and body symbolically. Later on he says "it is the flesh that profits nothing, but the spirit". And yes, you can go on and debunk that. And I can debunk their debunk. And so on and so forth.
ilovechrist Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 i'm also curious about which Protestant teachings you're trying to debate against Catholic ones.. any in particular?
ironmonk Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 (edited) [quote name='Brother Adam' date='Apr 21 2004, 05:12 PM'] faith is a verb acted out. [/quote] Faith is a noun. It's something we have, therefore a noun. If faith was a verb, then it would be a work. See James. Faith and works bro. Faith is a gift from God according to Scripture - therefore it is a noun. We can't give verbs. And the dictionary [b]faith [i]n.[/i][/b] 1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing. 2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust. 3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters. 4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will. 5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith. 6. A set of principles or beliefs God Bless, ironmonk Edited April 22, 2004 by ironmonk
ilovechrist Posted April 22, 2004 Posted April 22, 2004 "It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life." ---John 6:63 i assume you speak of this passage? if so.. does that mean when he spoke earlier of eating his body and drinking his blood--"the flesh is of no avail"--does that mean that our receiving of the Eucharist would be a waste of time? i think that most non-Catholics view this as something that natural reason would tell them--not what God would tell them. also, if his body is of no avail, THEN---his Incarnation, death and Resurrection would mean nothing, wouldn't it?
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