First Vows Or Final Vows

[jruss]

Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I have a better understanding of how my daughter might approach this (particularly from Sr. Marie's insights). As to the specifics of the ND's in particular, I think they may put more emphasis on first vows than other congregations. My daughter said something to the effect of that the Sisters who wrote the rule wanted only one year of novitiate because they felt strongly about the help of the graces given in vows. (In contrast with the DSMME who have 2 years of novitiate-- 1 canonical and 1 apostolic before vows). I know the bishop will preside and there will be a big party.

The bus was not my idea, and I would have tried to put a stop to it if I had any inclination that my daughter would not stay. Hers is a pretty simple discernment and vocation. But I did wonder if my parish was putting any undue pressure on her.

Thanks again, and God bless you all!

[Santa Cruz]

[quote name='hugheyforlife' timestamp='1296237720' post='2205786']
I love this so much. I've been considering for some time a band to wear even though I am not yet living in community or taken final vows. I think I might proceed with this... (I had a band that I knew in my heart was THAT band but never wore it on a finger that would be obvious. I lost it in the snow this year (YES IN TEXAS) and I was very sad. It slipped right off and I never found it.)
[/quote]


Hugheyfor life, I don't know if you have heard of a "chastity" or "purity" ring? Here is a link explaining: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purity_ring

Here is another link explaining the "movement", http://www.thegorettigroup.org/index.htm

[Sarah147]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1296270965' post='2206210']
I have known a few women who left their communities because they were "not ready" for first profession ... i.e., they explained to me that because they could not make first profession with the intention of staying for life, they did not make them. ( Happily, two of them were discerned further and were able to return to their communities and make first profession ... including someone who used to post here!
[/quote]


How do people discern whether they are ready or not ready? When ready? And the same for when to enter a community?

Edited January 29, 2011 by JoyfulLife

[MissScripture]

[quote name='jruss' timestamp='1296314886' post='2206348']
Thank you all so much for your thoughtful replies. I have a better understanding of how my daughter might approach this (particularly from Sr. Marie's insights). As to the specifics of the ND's in particular, I think they may put more emphasis on first vows than other congregations. My daughter said something to the effect of that the Sisters who wrote the rule wanted only one year of novitiate because they felt strongly about the help of the graces given in vows. (In contrast with the DSMME who have 2 years of novitiate-- 1 canonical and 1 apostolic before vows). I know the bishop will preside and there will be a big party.

The bus was not my idea, and I would have tried to put a stop to it if I had any inclination that my daughter would not stay. Hers is a pretty simple discernment and vocation. But I did wonder if my parish was putting any undue pressure on her.

Thanks again, and God bless you all![img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/amen.gif[/img]
[/quote]
On the one hand, it might put some pressure on her. On the other hand, it IS something to celebrate. To go back a little bit to the getting married analogy, when my husband and I got engaged, we set a wedding date, but when we were about 6 months away from that date, we came to the realization that we were not ready to get married, yet. While we didn't break the engagement off entirely, we did have to tell everyone that we weren't getting married that summer and it was a pretty horrible time, but people, on the whole, were pretty understanding. Most people kept their opinions to themselves, if they thought our decision was wrong or we were "failures" or something (though a couple of "friends" didn't, and well, we don't talk to them anymore...). And we probably let plans go further than we should have with the wedding, because plans were already in motion, and we didn't want to feel like failures, but it's not like we could've not tell anyone about the wedding until the day before the wedding or something.

So, back to the vows thing --It is definitely something to celebrate, and since it IS called their wedding day, it would be a pity to tell people not to come out of the fear of "what if." And I would hope that since these are people who obviously love her, if she for some reason were to leave, they would continue to love her and support her. And even if they don't COME, everyone would still know that she had made first vows, like everyone knew we were engaged, so there would still be "pressure" to some extent.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1296334528' post='2206483']
On the one hand, it might put some pressure on her. On the other hand, it IS something to celebrate. To go back a little bit to the getting married analogy, when my husband and I got engaged, we set a wedding date, but when we were about 6 months away from that date, we came to the realization that we were not ready to get married, yet. While we didn't break the engagement off entirely, we did have to tell everyone that we weren't getting married that summer and it was a pretty horrible time, but people, on the whole, were pretty understanding. Most people kept their opinions to themselves, if they thought our decision was wrong or we were "failures" or something (though a couple of "friends" didn't, and well, we don't talk to them anymore...). And we probably let plans go further than we should have with the wedding, because plans were already in motion, and we didn't want to feel like failures, but it's not like we could've not tell anyone about the wedding until the day before the wedding or something.

So, back to the vows thing --It is definitely something to celebrate, and since it IS called their wedding day, it would be a pity to tell people not to come out of the fear of "what if." And I would hope that since these are people who obviously love her, if she for some reason were to leave, they would continue to love her and support her. And even if they don't COME, everyone would still know that she had made first vows, like everyone knew we were engaged, so there would still be "pressure" to some extent.
[/quote]

I think there's a lot that can cause that sort of pressure on someone... I mean, think of some of the women who are helped from the debt situation. Someone pays thousands of dollars so that they can test their vocation. And if they end up not going through with it all? I'm sure there's a huge temptation to feel guilty about it. Or even just in general... when you leave the world, people either expect you to make it and are super excited, or they're just waiting for you to 'fail' and rub it in your face. With both situations there's a sense of pressure on your vocation.

I think one of the most important things is to develop a complete detachment from [i]everyone's[/i] opinion or expectation, and to strive to love God's will and only his will. Doing this perfectly won't keep people from having expectations or even from expressing them... but if this love of God's will is perfected, it won't affect the individual... or it will serve to help sanctify her...

If one strives always to perfectly do the will of God, one can trust that all things happen for our good. Romans 8:28 "All things work together for good for those who love God and are called according to his purpose." I don't mean that it'll be easy or that it won't hurt... but it will work for our salvation, and there is a certain sweetness in that type of trust in God.

[jruss]

[quote name='jruss' timestamp='1296174339' post='2205415']
My daughter is making her first vows this summer and my parish is chartering a bus to take people down for the event; and we are 10 hours away! (She is very loved here). It got me wondering which event is more important to the sister, first vows or final vows? My daughter said they consider the first vows to be their "wedding" since it is intended for life, but final vows are. . . well. . .final?? It is at the first vows that the sisters are officially part of the congregation as well.
[/quote]
Well, I asked my daughter in a letter about the topic and finally received a reply. (Dealing with convent restrictions gives new meaning to snail mail!)
Here is her reply:

The church has placed an emphasis on final vows since Vatican II, in her wisdom, making this a very definitive statement. We follow this in the ceremony of final vows, including the litany and a welcoming where all the finally professed sisters hug each sister making final vows, welcoming them into final profession. Yet, our community really puts emphasis on first vows as the definitive moment of commitment. When we make vows "for three years" our intention cannot be to make this a trial period or loophole- not offering ourselves for all of our lives; while we follow the church's guidelines for necessary temporary profession. And there we become consecrated objects, genuine holocausts, women set apart for God and for His works. We receive all the graces of the vows by making a vow under the virtue of religion. So none of this waits or is withheld in expectation until final vows. I will be consecrated wholly to God this summer; the only difference in five years is that I will make this vow binding for all my life.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='jruss' timestamp='1298133712' post='2213838']
Well, I asked my daughter in a letter about the topic and finally received a reply. (Dealing with convent restrictions gives new meaning to snail mail!)
Here is her reply:

The church has placed an emphasis on final vows since Vatican II, in her wisdom, making this a very definitive statement. We follow this in the ceremony of final vows, including the litany and a welcoming where all the finally professed sisters hug each sister making final vows, welcoming them into final profession. Yet, our community really puts emphasis on first vows as the definitive moment of commitment. When we make vows "for three years" our intention cannot be to make this a trial period or loophole- not offering ourselves for all of our lives; while we follow the church's guidelines for necessary temporary profession. And there we become consecrated objects, genuine holocausts, women set apart for God and for His works. We receive all the graces of the vows by making a vow under the virtue of religion. So none of this waits or is withheld in expectation until final vows. I will be consecrated wholly to God this summer; the only difference in five years is that I will make this vow binding for all my life.
[/quote]

Thank you for sharing your daughters reply! I think this helps a lot with our understanding.

[Ephrem Augustine]

For our order, our anniversary is always celebrated for the day of our first vows, not our final vows...
however, i think the final vows should be a bigger celebration.

For us, the parents are part of both ceremonies. For our final vows, the parents are affiliated to the Order as well. (that is to say, they are made honorary Augustinians. It is the same thing that happens when somebody joins the seculars/third order, except they don't have to make the promises).

I think it would do your daughter well to have a large group come down for the event. Perhaps, you can request that it be recorded, and a 15 passenger van be rented instead. Assuming that a bus would be rented for the solemn/final vows. Sometime after your return, you could gather many of the people who would like to celebrate her, and have some kind of party, which could be recorded. Maybe a prayer, and a toast can be given to her, as well as the camera going around and having people say some well wishes. (kind of like what happens at a lot of weddings.)

First vows may or may not warrant a large bus. But you should be able to express that support tangibly.

[jruss]

[quote name='Ephrem Augustine' timestamp='1298140619' post='2213869']
For our order, our anniversary is always celebrated for the day of our first vows, not our final vows...
however, i think the final vows should be a bigger celebration.

For us, the parents are part of both ceremonies. For our final vows, the parents are affiliated to the Order as well. (that is to say, they are made honorary Augustinians. It is the same thing that happens when somebody joins the seculars/third order, except they don't have to make the promises).

I think it would do your daughter well to have a large group come down for the event. Perhaps, you can request that it be recorded, and a 15 passenger van be rented instead. Assuming that a bus would be rented for the solemn/final vows. Sometime after your return, you could gather many of the people who would like to celebrate her, and have some kind of party, which could be recorded. Maybe a prayer, and a toast can be given to her, as well as the camera going around and having people say some well wishes. (kind of like what happens at a lot of weddings.)

First vows may or may not warrant a large bus. But you should be able to express that support tangibly.
[/quote]

Wow! great ideas that I never would have thought of! Thanks