Detachment

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296776165' post='2208369']
Actually, I don't think parting with my material possessions is what I'll have a problem with when I enter. I'm much more concerned about my attachment to people.....
[/quote]
I think that's always the biggest struggle. I personally have started to really be careful with my time for this very reason. Again, so much more I want to share but I'm falling asleep. More later...

[vee]

In that book of Mother Angelica's I quoted earlier there is also a quote, that I cant find right now, that goes something like "detachment from things is a strong attachment to God."

St Teresa of Avila speaks about detachment in The Way of Perfection and here is a bit from chapter 10

[font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][size="4"][color="#003300"]Once we have detached ourselves from the world, and from our kinsfolk, and are cloistered here, in the conditions already described, it must look as if we have done everything and there is nothing left with which we have to contend. But, oh, my sisters, do not feel secure and fall asleep, or you will be like a man who goes to bed quite peacefully, after bolting all his doors for fear of thieves, when the thieves are already in the house. And you know there is no worse thief than one who lives in the house. We ourselves are always the same;[url="http://www.catholicfirst.com/thefaith/catholicclassics/stteresa/way/wayofperfection04.html#fn8"][8][/url] unless we take great care and each of us looks well to it that she renounces her self-will, which is the most important business of all, there will be many things to deprive us of the holy freedom of spirit which our souls seek in order to soar to their Maker unburdened by the leaden weight of the earth. [/color][/size][/font]

[font="Times New Roman, Times, serif"][size="4"][color="#003300"]It will be a great help towards this if we keep constantly in our thoughts the vanity of all things and the rapidity with which they pass away, so that we may withdraw our affections from things which are so trivial and fix them upon what will never come to an end. This may seem a poor kind of help but it will have the effect of greatly fortifying the soul. With regard to small things, we must be very careful, as soon as we begin to grow fond of them, to withdraw our thoughts from them and turn them to God. His Majesty will help us to do this. He has granted us the great favour of providing that, in this house, most of it is done already; but it remains for us to become detached from our own selves and it is a hard thing to withdraw from ourselves and oppose ourselves, because we are very close to ourselves and love ourselves very dearly. [/color][/size][/font]


We also have St John of the Cross who says NADA NADA NADA thanks Juan hahaha

[img]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_-GKMR8mFGBs/TQeEOKpbIBI/AAAAAAAABOw/zu3vtv3FRBY/s1600/Christianity_John_of_the_Cross_diagram_maxims_english_smaller+%25281%2529.jpg[/img]

[vee]

Another quote from Mother Angelica's Little Book of Life Lessons and Everyday Spirituality.


Penance doesnt mean a thing if its not God's will. St Teresa of Avila was so determined that she was going to do all these penances one Lent. Well she got into bed and was so sick everybody had to wait on her. She complained to the Lord and He said to her: "That was your penance, but this is mine for you." We all have our ideas of how we are going to be holy and how we're going to do penance. It's amazing what we'll do if it's our will, but if it's God's Will we all scream.

I like that last last sentence in particular because its soooo true! Even with detachment Ive noticed when I do things myself its ok but when God does it Im a two year old throwing a tantrum! Not my pride Lord, not my will oooowwwwwwww!!!



edited to add "not my will"

Edited February 4, 2011 by vee8

[Sarah147]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296835372' post='2208685']
Another quote from Mother Angelica's Little Book of Life Lessons and Everyday Spirituality.


[b]Penance doesnt mean a thing if its not God's will.[/b] St Teresa of Avila was so determined that she was going to do all these penances one Lent. Well she got into bed and was so sick everybody had to wait on her. She complained to the Lord and He said to her: "That was your penance, but this is mine for you." [b]We all have our ideas of how we are going to be holy and how we're going to do penance. It's amazing what we'll do if it's our will, but if it's God's Will we all scream.
[/b]
I like that last last sentence in particular because its soooo true! Even with detachment Ive noticed when I do things myself its ok but when God does it Im a two year old throwing a tantrum! Not my pride Lord, not my will oooowwwwwwww!!!



edited to add "not my will"
[/quote]


Soooooooooo true! God will and does send us plenty of penances in daily life, and I think HIS penances break down our pride and everything much better than our attempts.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='JoyfulLife' timestamp='1296846516' post='2208763']
Soooooooooo true! God will and does send us plenty of penances in daily life, and I think HIS penances break down our pride and everything much better than our attempts.
[/quote]
That's why I just don't make any attempts.

[Sarah147]

That's the lesson I learned from someone, and Mother Angelica, and so I don't make my own penances. I do, however, feel that the Rosary is a penance for me, and that's part of why I don't do it very often; I find it hard to keep up; I prefer daily Divine Office.

[TeresaBenedicta]

Concerning penances...

I've always felt a little out of the loop. I've never really had a strong desire to do extra penances, extra fasts, etc. I fast when the Church asks us to, and I do some little penances every now and then. I don't know. I guess I've never felt as though penances are an outlet for how I love God or that my circumstances in life have been, in themselves, something of penance, if I can submit to what the Lord wishes to teach me.

But I always feel a little out of the loop concerning penances.

[vee]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1296848698' post='2208783']
Concerning penances...

I've always felt a little out of the loop. I've never really had a strong desire to do extra penances, extra fasts, etc. I fast when the Church asks us to, and I do some little penances every now and then. I don't know. I guess I've never felt as though penances are an outlet for how I love God or that my circumstances in life have been, in themselves, something of penance, if I can submit to what the Lord wishes to teach me.

But I always feel a little out of the loop concerning penances.
[/quote]

Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296932305' post='2209051']
Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.
[/quote]

[url="http://http//www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/PENANCE.HTM"]THIS[/url] seemed a good article.

I do penance. I abstain from meat on Wednesdays and Fast on Fridays. I began, when I learned the CFRs do it. The SsEWs abstain from meat most Wednesdays, and always on Friday.
I offer it up for people I know struggling with the Faith or for the Souls in Purgatory.
I've read those who say you shouldn't go looking for suffering, or asking for it (like Saint Therese, who was glad she didn't ask for it, because she felt that if it were freely given by God He was obliged to send her the graces to bear it. If she'd asked for it, He might'nt have been so obliged). On the other hand, there are saints who looked for penance: Blessed Kateri (thorns in her bed, among other things), Saint Jean Vianney (potatoes!) and lots of others.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1296795616' post='2208524']
I personally have started to really be careful with my time for this very reason. Again, so much more I want to share but I'm falling asleep. More later...
[/quote]


How so, if I may inquire?
I mean, how do you budget your time? In favor of spending less time with loved ones, or more (like my family wants to do; spend as much time with me as they can before they must give me up!)?

[Chamomile]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296932305' post='2209051']
Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.
[/quote]



Atonement is also another way to think of it. Like in the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.

I was reminded of the Angel's prayer at Fatima after I read your post, vee...



[quote]
My God,
I believe, I adore, I hope, and I love You.
I ask forgiveness for those
who do not believe, nor adore, nor hope, nor love You.
Most Holy Trinity-
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit-
I adore You profoundly,
and I offer You the most Precious
Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity
of Jesus Christ,
present in all the tabernacles of the world
in reparation
for the outrages, sacrileges, and indifferences
by which He is offended;
and by the infinite merits of His Most Sacred Heart,
and through the Immaculate Heart of Mary,
I bet the conversion of poor sinners.
Amen.
[/quote]


I saw Fr. Andrew Apostoli speak about Eucharistic Adoration, and he said this prayer is often said three times before the Blessed Sacrament, so there's a specific act of atonement most people can do!

Our Lady of Fatima told the shepherd children to do penance, and I sometimes find that word harsh. Atonement or reparation make more sense to me - I'm not sure if there's an actual theological or practical difference in those words, though.

I think the best penance is whatever increases humility in a person's soul.

[JenDeMaria]

Speaking of Fatima... reading about the little shepherd children that wanted to make sacrifices so badly they gave their lunches to strangers and went without water all day really made me want to engage in extra penance. Little Jacinta Marto was only five years old. If a five year old can love sinners that much, shouldn't I be able to give up treats on a Wednesday or offer up my shoulder ache instead of taking an aspirin?

Of course, when I looked up "penance" online I found some great advice: first, do all the things you should do, but don't. File your taxes. Plan a budget and stick to it. Eliminate impulse purchases. Spend less time adoring your tv and/or computer. Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. It reminded me of the part in This House of Brede where a senior nun complains of the novices that they all want to engage in extreme penance for love of God... fasting on nothing but bread and water, sleeping on boards, taking extra discipline, etc -- but no would do the tedious things that would actually be useful, such as keeping the string spool tidy and not wasting the dish soap. Sleeping on boards can seem romantic, in a way, and inflame one's pride, but being cautious with the dish soap requires a true martyrdom of the self, in the most humble sense.

I love the word "penance", personally. My Protestant Bible used to read "Repent, for the Kindgom of Heaven is at Hand." Now my Catholic Bible says "Do penance, for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand." Penance is an action word that says "True contrition requires more than sighs and tears". Kind David repented. And then he went and wrote the Miserere.

[JenDeMaria]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1296948469' post='2209119']
Atonement is also another way to think of it. Like in the Chaplet of Divine Mercy.
...snip...

Our Lady of Fatima told the shepherd children to do penance, and I sometimes find that word harsh. Atonement or reparation make more sense to me - I'm not sure if there's an actual theological or practical difference in those words, though.

I think the best penance is whatever increases humility in a person's soul.
[/quote]

Actually, just for the sake of clarification, atonement and reparation are satisfactions made for sins. Only Jesus can atone and/or make reparation for sins.

Think of it this way. You break a million dollar vase. Atonement is paying for the vase. Reparation is replacing it. Penance is saying "I'm sorry, I don't have a million dollars. But I am truly sorry and, if you like, I can bring you a cup of coffee in the morning and wash your car in the afternoon."

We do offer to make reparation for crimes committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the familiar Fatima sacrifice prayer, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.

[Chamomile]

[quote name='JenDeMaria' timestamp='1296952624' post='2209155']
Actually, just for the sake of clarification, atonement and reparation are satisfactions made for sins. Only Jesus can atone and/or make reparation for sins.

Think of it this way. You break a million dollar vase. Atonement is paying for the vase. Reparation is replacing it. Penance is saying "I'm sorry, I don't have a million dollars. But I am truly sorry and, if you like, I can bring you a cup of coffee in the morning and wash your car in the afternoon."

We do offer to make reparation for crimes committed against the Immaculate Heart of Mary in the familiar Fatima sacrifice prayer, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
[/quote]

Ah! Thank you for clarifying!

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='vee8' timestamp='1296932305' post='2209051']
Maybe the word reparation might help which I found defined as the making of amends for wrong or injury done After we go to Confession we must make amends to God for our offenses committed right? By doing extra penances or reparations we may offer those to God for the sins others commit and are never sorry for. Also, as it says in Matthew, I think, some demons can only be expelled by prayer and fasting. If my understanding is correct we can then not only pray and fast for ourselves to be freed from some particular torment or struggle but also on behalf of others so through that God may move to work in their life.
[/quote]

Yeah, I definitely get the concept.

I suppose I do some of that, when I have particular intentions for people or what have you.

I guess I've just never felt the need over burden myself with penances-- the way you hear St. Teresa and others talk about it. Then again, I've always been in close consultation with my spiritual director with these things, too.

Overall-- I think penances [i]can[/i] be a good way of doing your part to detach from your own will... but I'd say they are [i]more[/i] effective when in consultation with your spiritual director. As some have said here, and as our spiritual mentors teach, penances lose their effect to a certain degree when they are merely another outlet of your own will.

But often God gives us an abundant opportunity for growth in detachment just by our circumstances in life.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1296947528' post='2209107']
How so, if I may inquire?
I mean, how do you budget your time? In favor of spending less time with loved ones, or more (like my family wants to do; spend as much time with me as they can before they must give me up!)?
[/quote]
I'll give this a shot (replying) but know I am very tired from today and may not be very eloquent!

I have "budgeted" my time in favor of spending less time with those around me. I spend only the amount of time with others as is prudent for my spiritual life and my basic needs. While time with others is certainly a good thing, I have to be constantly aware of my motives for staying or going. I do not fret about it, the answer usually comes easily if I'm open to it.

I have a sizable amount of time set aside each day for morning prayer and meditation (considering I also have a full-time job) and keep a few nights a week "free" of other commitments. I can choose to spend my "free" time with my family or by myself. Even my time "serving" is limited to what I feel is best for both me and the recipients of my service.

I like to think of my interaction with "the world" in terms of college work. I try to maintain as much as possible the ratio of 2:1. I spend twice as much time in quiet and prayer (or by myself) as I do with others. Sometimes that looks like Daily Mass or adoration, and sometimes that looks like a run at the lake. My spiritual and mental/physical health comes before all else.

Our families and friends certainly want time with us and that is not necessarily a bad thing. However, we must be willing to understand that, though not necessarily a bad selfishness, it is selfish and we must first look at what is prudent.

Have I mentioned yet that this is simply what I feel God is asking of me in my life, what I have discerned for myself and not necessarily right for everyone else? No? Well, I'm saying it now. So take what I'm saying with a grain of salt. And if you disagree or it causes questions, talk to your SD.

So I guess that's a long answer to a simple question. I tend to roll like that. And I'm sorry if it made little sense. I am really tired.


Simply because our families and friends love us and have good intentions does not mean we have to fulfill their every request for our time - or even the majority of their requests. What time is prudent and loving and adding to the glory of God is what we should spend with them, I think.


Am I making any sense? I'll try again in a day or two.

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1296967934' post='2209234']
I'll give this a shot (replying) but know I am very tired from today and may not be very eloquent!
[/quote]

Thank you very much, and no that made perfect sense. Thank you.

[Sarah147]

I can see what you are saying about more quiet time. I'm spending more quiet time than I did growing up, and I like having that time. I can tell I will really need it, if and when, in an order. It's great having that busy time and being with all those Sisters (ssew), and yet still being able to have your own, quiet time through it!

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Tally Marx' timestamp='1297043143' post='2209520']
Thank you very much, and no that made perfect sense. Thank you.
[/quote]
I'm glad. I've forgotten: where are you entering?

[Tally Marx]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1297055735' post='2209587']
I'm glad. I've forgotten: where are you entering?
[/quote]

I am not certain yet.
That's what I am discerning.