Wait Until Kids Are Grown To Date Or Remarry?

[southern california guy]

"Dr Laura" is the only "advice" person I've heard argue that people should wait until their kids are grown to date and remarry.

She argues that kids are the most important thing and that divorced parents should wait until they're grown to date and remarry. She argues that dating and marriage bring drama into the kids lives and draw attention away from them and to the new 'spouse'. And the new spouse tends to resent the children. So the kids act out, and become messed up as a result -- especially if their mom/dad has a new child with their new spouse. Is this true?

I've never heard this topic debated from a Christian or Catholic perspective. In fact I've never heard it debated at all.. So I thought I'd post it here and see what people think.

[CatherineM]

I've done a bunch of divorces, and divorce mediations, and after money, the number two cause of divorce is blended family stuff. There's fights about custody times, fights about money going out of the budget for the child support, even the ex-grandparents can make trouble. That doesn't count all the kids vs. step-mom/dad stuff. I'd never tell anyone they should wait, but I'd applaud someone willing to make that sacrifice.

[MissScripture]

I don't think there is any way to even generalize this sort of question, because all situations are so different. I mean, it would depend on if the 1st spouse died or was divorced. It would depend on the personality of the new spouse. It would depend on the ages of the kids. It would depend on the ages of the adults. It would depend on far too many variables to be able to make any sort of generalized rule. But I don't think it's anything that should be entered into lightly...then again, I also don't think dating and marriage for people who don't have kids should, either.

[Jesus_lol]

Depends on the nature of the split and the mind sets of the parents involved. If the mom/dad left the family, is drunk, abuse, etc it would be a good idea to get the kids a new father figure, etc.

and I think it does much more good for the children to see their parents happy, whether that is single or with a new romance. as long as the new person accepts that he/she is walking into a Family, and not just dating a woman/man with some large talkative pets.

[cmotherofpirl]

I refused to consider dating until my kids were grown for exactly the reasons listed by Dr. Laura. I never thought it fair to kids to try to divide my attention and emotions because my first duty was to them, not myself. I didn't want to screw up.

[add]

a catholic marriage commitment is for life, i don't understand your question

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297219026' post='2210428']
a catholic marriage commitment is for life, i don't understand your question
[/quote]
An annulment process merely recognizes that a marriage did not occur in the first place, which you certainly know already.

[Lil'Monster]

[size="3"]If my parents would not have met and got married I won't be alive. My Mom had four kids from her first marriage and also my Dad had two sons too before they got married and had me. I dont disagree that it is hard for the kids because they want to see their parents back together but sometimes that happens. I know from experience cuz my parents were gonna get a divorce but for alot of prayers they decided to get back together and they are more in love than ever! [/size]

[add]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1297223236' post='2210463']
An annulment process merely recognizes that a marriage did not occur in the first place, which you certainly know already.
[/quote]

A consummated marriage may have transpired if there are children, making an annulment argument a mute point.

Since when can a catholic person be granted an annulment if this union has produced offspring?

Edited February 9, 2011 by apparently

[cruciatacara]

I voted before I read the question so deleted my vote. I thought we were talking about the spouse dying, not divorcing. If a person is widowed, then I think the kids would benefit from a two parent family again. If the parents are divorced, I think this is bad for the kids and since re-marriage of divorced persons is not allowed in the Church anyway.....

If we are talking annulment, I would be surprised if there were kids involved, but it isn't impossible since one of the Kennedy's tried it and his ex had to fight pretty hard for it NOT to be approved. I think each case has to be taken invidivually since the reasons for the annulment might mean that the person doesn't understand what marriage is all about in the first place.

If people have kids, they shouldn't divorce unless there is serious abuse - in which case, no, I don't think the partner who has custody should remarry since they obviously have serious issues to deal with and the kids will be needing a lot of help too.

All that being said, I don't think any outside person can really know all the factors involved and so we probably can't judge for someone else.

Edited February 9, 2011 by cruciatacara

[Lil Red]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297291872' post='2210686']
A consummated marriage may have transpired if there are children, making an annulment argument a mute point.

Since when can a catholic person be granted an annulment if this union has produced offspring?
[/quote]
there are a lot of reasons for an annulment, even if the union produced offspring. it's not a mute point, either, or a moot one.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='cruciatacara' timestamp='1297293571' post='2210696']If the parents are divorced, I think this is bad for the kids and since re-marriage of divorced persons is not allowed in the Church anyway.....[/quote]
wrong. if the marriage is annulled, divorced persons may remarry.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1296958505' post='2209191']
I refused to consider dating until my kids were grown for exactly the reasons listed by Dr. Laura. I never thought it fair to kids to try to divide my attention and emotions because my first duty was to them, not myself. I didn't want to screw up.
[/quote]
I'm with you, here. I'm not a single parent but if, heaven forbid, I were, I cannot imagine having the energy to raise my three kids and spend time looking for a new husband. The energy it takes to raise them now (with the benefit of a husband) is high... If I had to go it alone, with the drama involved in them losing a dad... can't imagine it.

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297219026' post='2210428']
a catholic marriage commitment is for life, i don't understand your question
[/quote]
Parents die, too, unfortunately. It's not a moot question.

[CatherineM]

I guess I did wait until my fosters sons were both out of the house before I starting looking for a husband. I didn't exactly plan it that way, I just didn't have the energy before then. I also didn't feel free to make plans for myself.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297291872' post='2210686']
A consummated marriage may have transpired if there are children, making an annulment argument a mute point.

Since when can a catholic person be granted an annulment if this union has produced offspring?
[/quote]
Moot. Besides that, it's been answered.

[Ed Normile]

Of course you could always kill the kids off! Or just sell them into slavery.

ed

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297291872' post='2210686']
A consummated marriage may have transpired if there are children, making an annulment argument a mute point.

Since when can a catholic person be granted an annulment if this union has produced offspring?
[/quote]

However, an annulment means whether consumated or not, there was no marriage. The decree of annulment has nothing to do with whether one had children or not, they are not considered since the decision only concerns the state of the couple WHEN they got married, not ehat happens after.

[add]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' timestamp='1297299032' post='2210762']
Parents die, too, unfortunately. It's not a moot question.
[/quote]

death of a spouse is hardly the same as that of divorced parents. Calling a divorce, an annulment is merely semantics and politically correct nonsense.

this tread reminds me of "Henry the eighth" and him murdering his wife because divorce was not legal or moral, and coincidently started the church of England.

just saying

Edited February 12, 2011 by apparently

[Sarah147]

I personally think children need a Mom and Dad in their lives. But I think it also depends as far as if you should do it.... If the prospective new Mom or Dad is Catholic and really wonderful, that is just what they need.

[tinytherese]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1297469745' post='2211528']
death of a spouse is hardly the same as that of divorced parents. Calling a divorce, an annulment is merely semantics and politically correct nonsense.
[/quote]

Isn't It Just a Catholic Rubber-Stamp on a Divorce?

What Really Happens When Someone Petitions for an "Annulment"

By Pete Vere and Jacqueline Rapp




This Rock
Volume 17, Number 5
May-June 2006


What does the Church do when a couple—or at least half of it—says "I do" but means "I don’t"? It seems to many people that with a little sleight of hand and a lot of money, the couple can be given a kind of do-over. But in reality, obtaining a declaration of nullity (annulment is a misnomer; the Church cannot "annul" a marriage) involves a rigorous legal procedure that gives that couple the opportunity to prove to a tribunal that a real marriage never took place.

Marriage enjoys "the favor of the law," according to canon 1060 of the Code of Canon Law. In everyday language, this means that the Church assumes that a marriage is valid unless it is proven not to be. The wisdom behind canon 1060 is clear: Since no marriage is perfect, people may have occasional doubts about their marriages. But it is one thing to allege the invalidity of a marriage; it is quite another to prove it—as a person seeking a declaration of nullity must do.

The Church cannot actually nullify a marriage, despite the language we use to talk about the process. When a couple or individual petitions for an "annulment," the tribunal process seeks to uncover whether a valid marriage—as the Church understands it—came into being when the couple exchanged their vows or whether the husband or wife did not fully consent to the proposed marriage. Through an arduous legal process, the tribunal determines whether to overturn the presumption of validity of a marriage before them.

The process is strenuous: It means putting the whole history of a failed union into words, dredging up painful memories, and doing a hard self-examination. Moreover, the whole process for many is misunderstood or shrouded in mystery. Indeed, many good Catholics flinch from seeking justifiable declarations of nullity. Yet the process exists to help those very people.



How the Process Begins


The process opens when a husband or wife contacts the local parish or tribunal and shares preliminary information about the marriage. The petitioner (the spouse who initiates the process) provides baptismal certificates, the marriage license, and a divorce decree (if there is one). The baptismal certificate gives the faith background of the couple, the marriage license establishes the age of the individuals at the time of their wedding, and a divorce decree indicates that there is little hope of reconciliation. After a lengthy and probing interview, a petition is drafted that accuses the marriage of invalidity and states why the petitioner believes it to be invalid. The tribunal understands that most Catholics are not experts in canon law. Someone will usually help the petitioner narrow down the grounds and draft the petition. That petition is then submitted to the tribunal.

The petition rises and falls on the question of consent. Marriage consent breaks down into three areas: capacity, knowledge, and will. For example, a severe alcoholic lacks the capacity to consent to marriage if his alcoholism prevents him from carrying out the natural obligations of marriage. Similarly, a marriage is invalid if a woman does not know that children come about through some sort of sexual cooperation between husband and wife. These days, though, spouses are more likely to invalidate their wedding vows by willfully excluding the possibility of children.


The Jurisdiction of the Tribunal


The judicial vicar (see "People in the Process") receives the petition. If he determines that there is no reasonable hope of reconciliation between the parties, he then decides whether his particular tribunal is competent to hear the case. There are only three possible tribunals: the one in the diocese in which the marriage was contracted, the one where the petitioner or the former spouse resides, or, lastly, the one where the most proofs are present. A proof can be anything from a witness to old love letters. In addition, the judicial vicar of the former spouse’s diocese must give his consent to the case proceeding in another tribunal. He may do so only after consulting with the respondent. These conditions prevent petitioners from "shopping" for a tribunal willing to rule in their favor. If the tribunal appealed to is not deemed competent to hear a case, its decision is automatically null.


The Respondent’s Role


If the tribunal accepts the petition, that tribunal becomes known as the court of first instance. (All cases alleging the invalidity of a sacrament are judged at least twice.) The judicial vicar always contacts the former spouse, or respondent, and invites him or her to respond within fifteen days. The fifteen-day time limit ensures that the former spouse cannot needlessly delay the petition.

The respondent may refuse to be involved, or the marriage may have taken place so long ago that the respondent can no longer be found. The process can continue, though, provided the tribunal can demonstrate a good faith effort to find and involve the respondent. A violation of the respondent’s right to participate invalidates the process. If the process might lead to a dangerous situation between the former spouses, the tribunal does all it can within the bounds of the law to protect both spouses.

The judicial vicar then issues a decree called the joinder of the issues, which weighs the preliminary information, specifies the grounds to be investigated, and identifies the party against whom the grounds are alleged. There is no such thing as a no-fault declaration of invalidity: If a marriage is invalid, it is because there is a problem with the consent of either the petitioner or the respondent or both.


The Testimony of the Spouses and Witnesses


The petitioner and the respondent are then asked to give formal testimony. This testimony is sometimes given in person, sometimes in written form, and sometimes a combination of both, depending on the procedure of the particular tribunal. In addition to covering the period the couple were married, the testimony also covers the family background of each party and the events leading up to the marriage. Because a declaration of invalidity states that a marriage was invalid from the beginning, the tribunal must ask questions about each person’s state prior to the marriage, including childhood and upbringing. Knowing what sort of marriages the parties experienced firsthand—usually those of their parents and grandparents—gives the tribunal a good indication of what the parties anticipated marriage to be.

The tribunal asks questions about prior dating relationships and the couple’s courtship, engagement, and wedding. This helps the judges determine if the couple carried unresolved issues or negative behavior patterns into their marriage.

Each party then presents witnesses and shares other proofs with the tribunal. The documentation and evidence (called the acts), along with the proceedings of the case, are then published. Both parties and their advocates are invited to review and respond to this publication of the acts. The advocates then submit a brief in which they argue in favor of the party they represent. The advocates’ briefs, along with the other acts, are given to the defender of the bond, who reviews them and composes a brief presenting reasonable arguments in favor of the marriage’s presumed validity.


The First and Second Instance Judgments


The case then proceeds to the judge(s) for first instance judgment. Affirmative or negative, the reasons for the decision are written down and carefully explained. Even if the petition receives an affirmative decision at first instance, the petitioner is not yet free to marry. The validity of the first marriage is still intact until the second instance tribunal ratifies the first decision. If second instance confirms the affirmative decision, if there are no appeals to the Roman Rota (one of two supreme courts of the Church in Rome), and if no prohibitions or restrictions are attached to the sentence, then each party is free to marry.


Prohibitions and Restrictions


Sometimes the tribunal determines that the problems that led to the failure of the marriage are still present and of a serious nature, and consequently a prohibition or restriction is placed on any future marriage. This usually means that a future marriage is delayed until certain conditions have been met by the parties concerned. These are usually temporary, but they can sometimes be permanent depending on the reason for the imposition or the disposition of the parties. Prohibitions and restrictions are not punitive; they are designed to ensure that whatever kept the first marriage from being a true marriage is addressed in order to prevent yet another invalid marriage from being contracted.

Prohibitions and restrictions come in the form of a monitum or a vetitum. A monitum is a warning of some kind—such as that one party was the victim of domestic violence or that the other is prone to alcoholism. It is a yellow light that warns a priest or deacon about previous difficulties before he officiates at the wedding of a party to an annulled marriage. The monitum is generally addressed to the individual charged with preparing the new couple for marriage.

A vetitum is more serious. The vetitum is a red light telling a priest or deacon that a new marriage may not proceed until certain conditions are met. It requires a specific action by the party to the invalid marriage—and possibly his or her intended spouse—before a new marriage can take place. If the husband, for example, is prone to serious drug addiction, a vetitum might require him to demonstrate that he has been drug free for at least a year before being allowed another attempt at marriage. Generally, these prohibitions or restrictions can be lifted only by the bishop or his judicial vicar.


The Sacrament of Marriage


It is well to remember that marriage is a sacrament when both husband and wife are baptized. Only God can dissolve a consummated sacramental marriage between two baptized persons—and he does so only through the death of one of the spouses. But the declaration of invalidity, or "annulment" process, is part of the larger teaching of the Church on marriage. Knowing what true marriage is, we can determine when it is not present and free the parties to enter into a true marital bond.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete Vere is a canon lawyer and a Catholic journalist. He is the co-author of Surprised by Canon Law (Servant Books) and More Catholic Than the Pope (Our Sunday Visitor, available from Catholic Answers).

Jacqueline Rapp is a writer, a judge for the tribunal of the Archdiocese of Louisville, and an independent canonical consultant for several dioceses across the United States. She resides in Louisville, Kentucky, with her husband, Keith, and their daughters Alexandra and Sabina.

source http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0605fea5.asp