Vocation To The Single Life

[Archaeology cat]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1297907171' post='2213132']
I haven't really read much of this thread, and I don't mean to be off topic, but I just had to say, I don't think anyone has the patience to deal with kids 100% of the time. I can pretty much guarantee that if you ask a mom if she's got patience 100% of the time, she'll tell you no.

Sorry for this interruption. Please, carry on.
[/quote]
To add to this, how other children affect you in no way reflects how your own affect you, or how you relate to your own. I have never enjoyed babysitting and have very little patience with children who are not mine. As Cherie mentioned, motherhood can transform you, you just never know, really. And of course God gives us the grace we need.

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1297958936' post='2213294']
That's exactly it, though- it's not a vocation [i]as such[/i]. It is a transitory state in life, [i]from[/i] which one is called.

Now, thinking about it more... Those who make private vows or otherwise make a consecration to God, seem to me to be answering a God-given vocation. There is commitment and accountability. But the single life without those sorts of commitments is, by its very nature, transitory (except under certain circumstances, as noted in my earlier post).

But of course we must be supporting everyone at every state in their life. We [i]don't[/i] need to call things what they're not. It only causes confusion. We refer to anything we're doing, that we believe is God's will, as "our vocation." Sure, in a very loose way, that's true. My s/d used to say to me while I was in college, "Your vocation is to be the best student you can." I understood him correctly as using the term 'vocation' loosely. We both knew that this was where God wanted me at the moment and to best follow God's will for me was to be the best student I could be.

But that's not a vocation in the proper sense. And I think when we use the word 'vocation' to encompass many aspects of our lives the concur with God's will, that's when we get the confusion about what is or is not a vocation. A vocation, properly speaking, is a call from God to a committed state of life.
[/quote]
I think this makes sense that the single life as a default position isn't , strictly speaking, a vocation, but that one makes a true commitment to a vocation, be that religious vows of some kind or marriage.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1297974774' post='2213355']
A call from God ("vocation" comes from "vocare" i.e "to call") is of course an expression of God's Will for a person, and such can never be termed 'loosely'. It is always a sacred and holy matter and the road for the particular person to holiness and Unity with God's Will - because the smallest and greatest expressions of God's Will is always equally and fully holy and sacred and the road to holiness.
The Pre V2 insistence that only religious life and the priesthood were vocations in the true since still remains in our consciousness, although Rome's directive that marriage is also a vocation int he true sense has broadened our pre V2 consciousness. But "vocation" is even broader than all that and certainly some Documents coming out of Rome example this, but there is still that insistence in our consciousness to comparmentalize vocation within narrow inaccurate limits. This also as a consequence compartmentalizes expressions of God's Will into narrow and inaccurate limits. It can also narrow and make inaccurate understandings of the Sacrament of Baptism.


Again, we can forget that our Bapstims is a vocation or call from God to follow the Gospel. A further call, whatever it may be including to the single state, is a call to live out our baptism in a particular manner. For one called to the single state it is a call to live out the Gospel as a single lay person in celibacy, either under private vows or not. It is a vocation in the truest sense of the word as is our Baptism. The person with a call to the single lay celibate state as their vocation may or may not be called to another state in life and vocation at some point - but so can anyone in any vocation. Canon Law sets out what governs those in private vows.

As long as God does not call one to some other particular vocation, one has a call for sure to the single celibate state; however, some are called to this state directly and as their particular and personal call and vocation and as a lifetime consideration.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_exhortations/documents/hf_jp-ii_exh_30121988_christifideles-laici_en.html





God bless - Barb
[/quote]

Thanks for commenting, Barb.

With all respect; I disagree. Well, not completely.

All vocations arise from our baptism. This is true. Each person has a universal call to holiness and union with God by virtue of their baptism. And since each person is a unique child of God, how one arrives at complete union with God will be different. To call this a vocation... yes, sure. I'm more of a Thomist, so I prefer to call it our final end by virtue of our baptism. Either way, yes, it's universal. Yes, it is from our baptism. And exactly how we arrive at our final end will differ because of our uniqueness.

But the stricter, and more proper sense of vocation, as the Church has traditionally used the word, refers to a specific state in life that allows one to give selflessly.

I'm not usually one to quote from articles on the internet to make my argument, but they've done a great job with it: [url="http://www.pathsoflove.com/blog/2008/08/single-vocation-marriage-or-religious-life/"]Single Vocation?[/url]

[Lilllabettt]

I have difficulty understanding the strict defintion of vocation as a permanent or life-long commitment. A "true commitment" yes, but life-long .. no. I have heard it said that a vocation is different from a career because a career may change but a vocation does not. Well, I don't buy that. The difference between vocation and a job is that a job is something you do and a vocation has to do with who you are, your identity in relation to God. And who we are in relation to God can and does change.

God called Elizabeth Ann Seton to be married for ten years. Then He called her to be Catholic. Then He called her to be a religious. Blessed Teresa made perpetual vows with the Sisters of Loreto, until she received a new "call within a call." Benedict Joseph Labore made a commitment to spend his life as a permanent pilgrim. That was his vocation, confirmed by his confessors. No doubt God might have called him to that and then to something else after awhile.

Speaking of Elizabeth Ann Seaton ... the Daughters of Charity make no life long vows. Their vocation is to make a commitment every year. There are other secular institutes with the same set up ... and their vocations to that way of life are real regardless of the fact that they are "temporary." I know of a woman who was called to be a Daughter for 25 yrs and then was called to marriage. It is not as if her life with the Daughters was not "her" vocation and marriage turned out to be her "real" vocation. Both were real vocations. She was called twice, like St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Blessed Teresa, etc.

I think we as human beings like to think in terms of categories. But when God calls someone to a way of life, He is not restricted by our categories.

[MeteorShower]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1297979844' post='2213393']
God called Elizabeth Ann Seton to be married for ten years. Then He called her to be Catholic. Then He called her to be a religious. Blessed Teresa made perpetual vows with the Sisters of Loreto, until she received a new "call within a call." Benedict Joseph Labore made a commitment to spend his life as a permanent pilgrim. That was his vocation, confirmed by his confessors. No doubt God might have called him to that and then to something else after awhile.

Speaking of Elizabeth Ann Seaton ... the Daughters of Charity make no life long vows. Their vocation is to make a commitment every year. There are other secular institutes with the same set up ... and their vocations to that way of life are real regardless of the fact that they are "temporary." I know of a woman who was called to be a Daughter for 25 yrs and then was called to marriage. It is not as if her life with the Daughters was not "her" vocation and marriage turned out to be her "real" vocation. Both were real vocations. She was called twice, like St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Blessed Teresa, etc.

[/quote]

ooh...I have never thought of it like that

good explanation

[BarbTherese]

Quoting Lilllabettt
[quote]I have difficulty understanding the strict defintion of vocation as a permanent or life-long commitment. A "true commitment" yes, but life-long .. no. I have heard it said that a vocation is different from a career because a career may change but a vocation does not. Well, I don't buy that. The difference between vocation and a job is that a job is something you do and a vocation has to do with who you are, your identity in relation to God. And who we are in relation to God can and does change.[/quote] A vocation or call is that to whichever God calls one. It may be experienced as a lifetime call, it may be experienced as some kind of temporary call. God could conceivably call one to be a lawyer in say the single celibate state - while our Baptism defines who we are. We are a certain kind of person ideally, who lives out the call of The Gospel and no matter our particular call in life.
While a person may experience a call or vocation for life, The Will of God may not necessarily unfold that way. "My Ways are not your ways"
[quote]God called Elizabeth Ann Seton to be married for ten years. Then He called her to be Catholic. Then He called her to be a religious. Blessed Teresa made perpetual vows with the Sisters of Loreto, until she received a new "call within a call." Benedict Joseph Labore made a commitment to spend his life as a permanent pilgrim. That was his vocation, confirmed by his confessors. No doubt God might have called him to that and then to something else after awhile.[/quote]
Undoubtedly when Elizabet Ann Seton married, she experienced this as a lifetime call. Later God called herto be Catholic and we know that is alifetime call. God can call us anywhere and we may experience it as a lifetimes call or a temporary one. This does not mean that it will unfold as we experience and expect. God's Will is an ever unfolding matter in our days.
[quote]Speaking of Elizabeth Ann Seaton ... the Daughters of Charity make no life long vows. Their vocation is to make a commitment every year. There are other secular institutes with the same set up ... and their vocations to that way of life are real regardless of the fact that they are "temporary." I know of a woman who was called to be a Daughter for 25 yrs and then was called to marriage. It is not as if her life with the Daughters was not "her" vocation and marriage turned out to be her "real" vocation. Both were real vocations. She was called twice, like St. Elizabeth Ann Seton, Blessed Teresa, etc.[/quote]
I dont think that those who make temporary vows experience their vocation as a vocation only for a certain period, rather they experience it as a lifetime call. Whetherit will actually unfold that way is up to God. When Mother Teresa entered I think it was the Loreto Sisters, she experienced that as her call for life. It did not unfold that way and God called her elsewhere and to found a religious order.
[quote]I think we as human beings like to think in terms of categories. But when God calls someone to a way of life, He is not restricted by our categories.[/quote]
Absolutely correct that God is not at all restricted to our categories. And the sad thing about we humans and our categories is that we tend to create with our categories a type of "class system", failing to sight that nothing can be higher nor better for a person than God's Will. God's Will is the most sacred and the highest whetherit be in 'small' matters or 'great' matters. Quantifying God's Will, infact, as either small or great is 'wordly thinking', completely missing truth that God's Will is always and everwhere a great matter, and it sacred and holy in all its manifestations.
God does not call a person to a particular vocation out of any special love for that person for some reason. God calls for the good of The Whole Church and the world each person wheresoever He May for His Own Reasons while His Love for every single person He has created is totally and fully personal and equal. He loves the greatest saint with the same love that he loves the greatest sinner. We, however, can love God more in some people and less in others and no matter our particular vocation to which God has called us along with all the Graces necessary to live outthat vocation. As Jesus has told us we are always and everywhere "unprofitable servants" simply because all Good comes from God and His Grace.

Edited February 17, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[Chamomile]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1297958936' post='2213294']
A vocation, properly speaking, is a call from God to a committed state of life.
[/quote]

This is how I view a vocation - commitment is essential. It allows us to give of ourselves more completely than if we didn't make a commitment.

Even with the points that were raised after this, I think this still applies. Regardless of whether one was at different times in one's life a wife, then a religious (e.g. - St. Rita!!!! ), they lived their vocation as if that were their only vocation - because it was! And it was because they gave themselves completely according to the particulars of a vocation.

This is why I'm confused about the idea of the single life as a vocation. I'm starting to understand it if one makes private vows, is a diocesan hermit, part of an organization of apostolic life, a member of a third order, etc. But without a commitment, it seems to me that there's too much freedom of self and no way to lose oneself for the other, and ultimately for God. We are made for God and for one another, and we need promises to bind us together since we're by nature fickle and prone to wonder.

[TeresaBenedicta]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1297990797' post='2213448']
This is how I view a vocation - commitment is essential. It allows us to give of ourselves more completely than if we didn't make a commitment.

Even with the points that were raised after this, I think this still applies. Regardless of whether one was at different times in one's life a wife, then a religious (e.g. - St. Rita!!!! ), they lived their vocation as if that were their only vocation - because it was! And it was because they gave themselves completely according to the particulars of a vocation.

This is why I'm confused about the idea of the single life as a vocation. I'm starting to understand it if one makes private vows, is a diocesan hermit, part of an organization of apostolic life, a member of a third order, etc. But without a commitment, it seems to me that there's too much freedom of self and no way to lose oneself for the other, and ultimately for God. [b]We are made for God and for one another, and we need promises to bind us together since we're by nature fickle and prone to wonder.[/b]
[/quote]

Yes, exactly!

When we make vows of love, we enter into the mystery of Love Itself, the Holy Trinity! When makes a vow of love directly to God, one enters in a very special way into the Mystery of Love. When one makes a vow of love to another, one mirrors that Mystery of Love in a very special way.

[ontherock4good]

In reading over all these posts, I have to say I feel the way many here do - that a vocation is commitment and something that is permanent.

Right now I'm really struggling w/the concept/idea of vocation. Having recently discerned that religious life is not my vocation, I've really been struggling w/the idea of the single life. There's a big part of me that cringes at it, that doesn't want to be single for the rest of my life and feels like there's no commitment involved, even if I make "private vows." I don't feel ready to make private vows in that regard, anyhow. I'm just living single and doing the best I can right now (I have a parent who's very ill and I help taken care of him.)

Whenever I hear about vocations, I kind of get down and feel like less of a person - I get depressed b/c I feel like I don't have a vocation, that I'm an "outsider" or weirdo, and "less loved" by God than everyone who has found theirs. I know this is rediculous (I mean, we have saints like St. Dominic Savio who died young and didn't have a "vocation" per say, but the most important thing is that they're saints.) However, it's really hard to be single and not have much community or support, especially when it's hard to find a solid spiritual director.

I've certainly thought about marriage, but it seems like there's no guy out there for me right now - no guy is "noticing" me or walking through the door, and I don't know what to do. How do you find your soulmate? I don't want to go to clubs or bars - no interest in finding guys there, but I don't see a lot of single Catholic young men at Church either.

Lately, I've just been very discouraged by my "lack" of vocation, and everytime I feel that way I always feel this tug in my heart that my "vocation" is here and now, in being single and taking care of my parent. I find peace in that, but there's always anxiety when I think of a long-term vocation - things are so unclear and in my heart I'm scared I'll just be single forever, and I really don't want that. However, I don't know if I want married life either - I love and feel called to serving the Lord through different ministries and don't know if I could keep doing that w/a family. Anyway, sorry to ramble - this thread just really hit home for me - please pray! Thank you!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='ontherock4good' timestamp='1298002996' post='2213480']
In reading over all these posts, I have to say I feel the way many here do - that a vocation is commitment and something that is permanent.

Right now I'm really struggling w/the concept/idea of vocation. Having recently discerned that religious life is not my vocation, I've really been struggling w/the idea of the single life. There's a big part of me that cringes at it, that doesn't want to be single for the rest of my life and feels like there's no commitment involved, even if I make "private vows." I don't feel ready to make private vows in that regard, anyhow. I'm just living single and doing the best I can right now (I have a parent who's very ill and I help taken care of him.)

Whenever I hear about vocations, I kind of get down and feel like less of a person - I get depressed b/c I feel like I don't have a vocation, that I'm an "outsider" or weirdo, and "less loved" by God than everyone who has found theirs. I know this is rediculous (I mean, we have saints like St. Dominic Savio who died young and didn't have a "vocation" per say, but the most important thing is that they're saints.) However, it's really hard to be single and not have much community or support, especially when it's hard to find a solid spiritual director.

I've certainly thought about marriage, but it seems like there's no guy out there for me right now - no guy is "noticing" me or walking through the door, and I don't know what to do. How do you find your soulmate? I don't want to go to clubs or bars - no interest in finding guys there, but I don't see a lot of single Catholic young men at Church either.

Lately, I've just been very discouraged by my "lack" of vocation, and everytime I feel that way I always feel this tug in my heart that my "vocation" is here and now, in being single and taking care of my parent. I find peace in that, but there's always anxiety when I think of a long-term vocation - things are so unclear and in my heart I'm scared I'll just be single forever, and I really don't want that. However, I don't know if I want married life either - I love and feel called to serving the Lord through different ministries and don't know if I could keep doing that w/a family. Anyway, sorry to ramble - this thread just really hit home for me - please pray! Thank you!
[/quote]

Have you thought about possibly joining a Catholic Association? I posted a link earlier about the Secular Institute of the Heart of Jesus, but there are others. I'm considering it as an option, as well as the third order Dominicans, but I'm waiting until I finish college and begin my career to see what would work best and where I feel called. Right now, I don't have the desire to discern anything since I am busy with school and I feel like that is my God-given priority right now. I can definitely understand where you are coming from, though. I don't know if I want to be single forever either. There are those moments when I really desire to have a husband and a family of my own. I used to dream of what it would be like to walk down the aisle of a great Cathedral and see him standing there, waiting for me. It is definitely something that is very intimate and personal and has to be decided on our own. I've tried to find a spiritual director to replace the last one I had, but there is a definite shortage of qualified people to be spiritual directors, so I have stopped looking, at least for the time being.

It can be hard to feel like you are the only one who isn't getting married. Pretty much everyone that I knew in high school is married now with children and sometimes I wonder if there is something wrong with me, but that is when I try to remember that God's timing is not our own. We don't know what is waiting for us in the not-so-distant future. Your priority right now is caring for an ill parent, and that is a very important and loving gift that you can offer to God. You are giving yourself wholly to your parent who needs you right now. Things will most likely change in the future. I've learned it is important not to dwell on our loneliness, otherwise we despair and our relationship with Christ suffers (I know this all too well since I've had depression for over 11 years--which I am successfully being treated for). Offer your loneliness up to God and ask Him to be your sole comfort. He knows what it is like because He had to endure it Himself. Make daily prayer a priority. Even if you cannot make it to daily Mass, stop what you are doing at different times during the day and just breathe and pray. Life is too hectic and stressful sometimes and we forget, but Christ is always with us.

You have my prayers.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1297977558' post='2213380']
Thanks for commenting, Barb.

With all respect; I disagree. Well, not completely.

All vocations arise from our baptism. This is true. Each person has a universal call to holiness and union with God by virtue of their baptism. And since each person is a unique child of God, how one arrives at complete union with God will be different. To call this a vocation... yes, sure. I'm more of a Thomist, so I prefer to call it our final end by virtue of our baptism. Either way, yes, it's universal. Yes, it is from our baptism. And exactly how we arrive at our final end will differ because of our uniqueness.

But the stricter, and more proper sense of vocation, as the Church has traditionally used the word, refers to a specific state in life that allows one to give selflessly.

I'm not usually one to quote from articles on the internet to make my argument, but they've done a great job with it: [url="http://www.pathsoflove.com/blog/2008/08/single-vocation-marriage-or-religious-life/"]Single Vocation?[/url]
[/quote]



[quote]But the stricter, and more proper sense of vocation, as the Church has traditionally used the word, refers to a specific state in life that allows one to give selflessly.[/quote]

APOSTOLIC EXHORTATION
CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI
OF
HIS HOLINESS
JOHN PAUL II
[u][b][center]ON THE VOCATION AND THE MISSION
OF THE LAY FAITHFUL IN THE CHURCH AND IN THE WORLD[/center][/b][/u]
http://www.vatican.v...s-laici_en.html




QUOTE:
[u][b]The Various Vocations in the Lay State[/b][/u]

Along the same line the Second Vatican Council states: "This lay spirituality should take its particular character from the circumstances of one's state in life ([b]married and familylife, celibacy, widowhood[/b]), from one's state of health and from one's professional and social activity. All should not cease to develop earnestly the qualities and talents bestowed on them in accord with these conditions of life and should make use of the gifts which they have received from the Holy Spirit"(208)………….. "


Rome has spoken! In the above Document under the heading "The Various VOCATIONS in the Lay State" (caps are mine), the single life is referred to as "celibacy" since obviously the single person in the lay state is called to celibacy.

No matter one's vocation or state in life it is an opportunity to give of oneself selflessly as God may deteremine for God calls every person to holiness and Unity with Himself along with all opportunities and Grace necessary to achieve it. St Therese said that one can pick up a pin for love of God and save souls.

Perspective and attitude in life!

God bless - Barb
Edit: I am pretty sure I have a book by the author of the blog whose link you gave. I think it is also called "Paths of Love" but am unsure and my library just now is a nightmore of disorganization.

Edited February 18, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[TeresaBenedicta]

I don't think what you've posted is in any way opposed to what I'm presenting, Barb.

Everyone is called to live chastely in their state in life, everyone is not called to live celibately. The celibate is indeed a vocation and it is fulfilled in vows- through a religious order, publicly, or otherwise (privately, with a s/d, etc). 'Celibate' does not refer to a non-committed single person. That person is living chastely in a transitory state of life. Celibacy is a self-gift of one's whole being (including sexuality) to God and by its very nature requires a promise or vow.

Part of the difficulty, I think, is that we moderns refuse to look at things in their nature, in their essence. Everything can be anything and anything can be everything. No; specific things [i]are[/i] specific things. A vocation, in its proper or more specified sense, is a call to a specific, committed state in life that allows one to give of self and participate in the mysterious life of the Holy Trinity in a special way. Sometimes life circumstances delay us or keep us from answering that specific vocation. It could be a sick family member that needs to be taken care of long term. Or it could be a short-term issue, like debt. Or it could be our own health issues (I know a family with seriously disabled children who will never be married or enter religious life due to their health).

Do these (mostly rare) situations change the nature of a vocation? No. Just because an acorn seed does not grow into an oak tree does not mean it was not an acorn in the first place. Just because everyone cannot enter into a state of life does not mean there are not specific states in life to which God calls people. There are. That is the norm. Sometimes certain people don't fit into the norm... that's okay. That's part of God's plan. God is not restricted to the norm he has established. He can and does work outside of them. (Just like the sacraments are the norm in how God gives sanctifying grace... he can and does work outside of the sacraments. It's just more rare.)

[Chamomile]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1298027863' post='2213549']
QUOTE:
[u][b]The Various Vocations in the Lay State[/b][/u]

Along the same line the Second Vatican Council states: "This lay spirituality should take its particular character from the circumstances of one's state in life ([b]married and familylife, celibacy, widowhood[/b]), from one's state of health and from one's professional and social activity. All should not cease to develop earnestly the qualities and talents bestowed on them in accord with these conditions of life and should make use of the gifts which they have received from the Holy Spirit"(208)………….. "


Rome has spoken!
[/quote]



I really respect what you've written in this thread, BarbaraTherese, but I do think saying "Rome has spoken" is a bit much for this paragraph and the bolded portion. As far as I know, the Church hasn't come out with a document specifically about the single life as a vocation, and the part you've quoted here isn't saying that, either. I don't know what kind of doctrinal weight an Apostolic Exhortation has, actually....

That silence doesn't mean it's not possible, as has been already discussed. I just mean to point out that I don't think this document is saying what you want it to say. This is just my opinion, and I am in no way a scholar or very intelligent person, but I don't read that as validating the single state as a vocation comparable to marriage and religious life.

However, I do think the document you've referenced is a good guideline to those living as laity and should be read by those in the single state, and I'm glad you've posted it

[Chamomile]

[quote name='ontherock4good' timestamp='1298002996' post='2213480']
In reading over all these posts, I have to say I feel the way many here do - that a vocation is commitment and something that is permanent.

Right now I'm really struggling w/the concept/idea of vocation. Having recently discerned that religious life is not my vocation, I've really been struggling w/the idea of the single life. There's a big part of me that cringes at it, that doesn't want to be single for the rest of my life and feels like there's no commitment involved, even if I make "private vows." I don't feel ready to make private vows in that regard, anyhow. I'm just living single and doing the best I can right now (I have a parent who's very ill and I help taken care of him.)

Whenever I hear about vocations, I kind of get down and feel like less of a person - I get depressed b/c I feel like I don't have a vocation, that I'm an "outsider" or weirdo, and "less loved" by God than everyone who has found theirs. I know this is rediculous (I mean, we have saints like St. Dominic Savio who died young and didn't have a "vocation" per say, but the most important thing is that they're saints.) However, it's really hard to be single and not have much community or support, especially when it's hard to find a solid spiritual director.

I've certainly thought about marriage, but it seems like there's no guy out there for me right now - no guy is "noticing" me or walking through the door, and I don't know what to do. How do you find your soulmate? I don't want to go to clubs or bars - no interest in finding guys there, but I don't see a lot of single Catholic young men at Church either.

Lately, I've just been very discouraged by my "lack" of vocation, and everytime I feel that way I always feel this tug in my heart that my "vocation" is here and now, in being single and taking care of my parent. I find peace in that, but there's always anxiety when I think of a long-term vocation - things are so unclear and in my heart I'm scared I'll just be single forever, and I really don't want that. However, I don't know if I want married life either - I love and feel called to serving the Lord through different ministries and don't know if I could keep doing that w/a family. Anyway, sorry to ramble - this thread just really hit home for me - please pray! Thank you!
[/quote]

Sounds like you are in a specific situation where you are very needed. I think MM posted good stuff in response to you. Also read the blog written by a Consecrated Virgin that's been linked to. And read about St. Catherine of Siena's life.

Just wanted to let you know I'm praying for you!

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Chamomile' timestamp='1298075255' post='2213719']
I really respect what you've written in this thread, BarbaraTherese, but I do think saying "Rome has spoken" is a bit much for this paragraph and the bolded portion. As far as I know, the Church hasn't come out with a document specifically about the single life as a vocation, and the part you've quoted here isn't saying that, either. I don't know what kind of doctrinal weight an Apostolic Exhortation has, actually....

That silence doesn't mean it's not possible, as has been already discussed. I just mean to point out that I don't think this document is saying what you want it to say. This is just my opinion, and I am in no way a scholar or very intelligent person, but I don't read that as validating the single state as a vocation comparable to marriage and religious life.

However, I do think the document you've referenced is a good guideline to those living as laity and should be read by those in the single state, and I'm glad you've posted it
[/quote]


Hi Chamomile - There can be nothing higher or greater than God's Will, no matter what His Will may be. Hence, I dont have that mindset that one vocation and call from God is greater than another - each is an expression of God's Will and nothing can be greater than God's Will for a person, no matter what His Will may be. It is God's Will that is deserving of all praise and thanksgiving.

There is much discussion nowadays on the single lay state as a vocation and these discussion are quite new more or less in The Church. Some agree, some disagree and it seems to be a matter of opinion more or less often. It all depends, I think, often on what one wants to believe which probably will determine who and what one quotes in support of what one wants to believe. Perhaps one day The Church will come out with a document on the single lay state as a vocation, although to my mind it is not necessary and all is covered in CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI if one has a careful prayerful read of the Document. As I said in another post, we can forget that our Baptism is a vocation with no strict necessity for God to call one out of the lay state and the vocation of baptism and all it entails into the priesthood, religious life, marriage or some other form of consecrated life in The Church. The Church does not teach that we must enter into either marriage, priesthood or consecrated life in The Church. Most often it seems that He does and all praise and thanksgiving to Him for these vocations and calls. Because, to speak personally, He has not called me thus, do I consider my own vocation and call to the single lay state not comparable with the Sacrament of Marriage or consecrated life? Not at all, it is God's Will that is great in all its manifestations small and great. Very obviously, I would be gravely in error to choose Marraige because it is a Sacrament or religious life because it is the consecrated state knowing that I am not called. I am not called to either the Sacrament of Marriage or to religious life but to the single lay state and this is God's Will for me and nothing can be comparable to that! Personally again, it was not something I just decided to do - it was a journey and with advice from two theologians which included one who was my confessor and director ....... and I didn't really understand what I was trying to discern since back over 30 years ago the single lay state as a vocation was unheard of in the ppublic sense generally in The Church. It has always been, however, in a theological sense, a potential call and vocation from God.

If I start considering "comparable" then is a Sacrament on the same level as the consecrated state? But I just dont think along those lines in any way at all and find it near on impossible to get my head around such matters and leave it to the theologians. Nothing can be higher than God's Will in all its manifestations.

Here is an answer from Fr. Anthony of Vocation.com:
http://www.vocation.com/QandAItem.aspx?id=1419&tid=220
[quote]Does God call you to the single life?
Maria asks:

Dear Fr Anthony,

I am a 36-year-old female, and I feel God is calling me to the single life. Although I wanted to marry in my younger years, the right person never came along. Over the past few years I have accepted this and I now feel I can serve God better if I remain single. I can honestly say I have never felt the call to the religious life. I do serve in one of the third orders and plan to give a few years of service to the Church. I feel my call may be to missionary work.

My question is: does God call you to the single life? Can you please give me some insight on this subject?



Dear Maria,

From the very beginnings of the Church there have been those who remained 'single for the Lord' as the beautiful phrase goes. There is a place in the Church for 'Consecrated Virgins', and this is what Canon Law says: "Similar to these forms of consecrated life (religious institutes, etc.) is the order of virgins who, expressing the holy resolution of following Christ more closely, are consecrated to God by the diocesan bishop according to the approved liturgical rite, are mystically betrothed to Christ, the Son of God, and are dedicated to the service of the Church. In order to observe their own resolution more faithfully and to perform by mutual assistance service to the Church in harmony with their proper state, virgins can be associated together" (Canon 604). [quote]Remaining single without a formal consecration like this may also be a call in life if that is the way God leads an individual.[/[/quote][/quote]

[BarbTherese]

Quoting Opening Post - Chamomile

[quote]What do you think about a vocation to the single life? What does it entail? My guess is that it would mean taking private vows to never marry, and of course perfect chastity, but I'm not sure if it would include poverty and obedience, too. [/quote]

Private vows in the single state to the evangelical counsels is quite feasible. First, it is my firm belief that any vocation including to the single state in private vows needs discernment and ongoing spiritual advice. One can, if one wishes with one's spiritual director, determine how one is to live out the vow of poverty. Onc\e can also determine with one's director what the vow of obedience is to embrace. Obviously if one is making private vows to Chastity, Poverty and Obedience one needs to understand what one is doing and what it means in terms of the ABC of one's life both in a negative and positive sense.
There is nothing at all in Canon Law to prevent a person from making private vows and determining completely privately between oneself and God how one is to live them out. One needs to be very much aware, however, that a vow to God is avery serious matter even if no other person knows about it.
The Church permits a lay person to make vows at Mass if they so choose under the auspices of their parish priest of course. Such vows are still private vows. In formal terms, the person is not living a consecrated life, but a dedicated life.


[quote]It seems like it would also rule out the religious life or priesthood, since those are distinct vocations (by single life, I don't mean Consecrated Virginity, by the way). But then again, people leave the priesthood and religious life after making vows, so I guess one could also leave the vowed single life... ? [/quote]
Private vows are covered by Canon Law and easily researched on a Canon Law site. One needs to keep very much in mind that what one is doing is making a vow to God and a VERY serious matter.
[quote]Is there a history in the Church of people who have discerned a vocation to the single life? What did they do to realize this vocation? How is it discerned? What is the theology and spirituality behind that?[/quote] I have never lookedinto this nor researched it. I understand the theology behind private vows and the single lay vocation but too involved to go into here I think. As for the spirituality, that is very much a personal matter and probably varies greatly between individuals.
[quote]Is anyone here discerning that call? Has anyone made vows to stay single? If so, what does that mean to you? What are the vows like and how binding are they compared to religious life? And why did you choose that instead of religious life or marriage? [/quote]
My private vows are just as binding on me in a personal sense as if I was a religious although probably in some ways are lived out differnetly. Canon Law covers the vows of a religious and those who make private vows and are easily researched on any Canon Law site. Certainly the vows of a religious are probably far more complex to abandon than private vows (see Canon Law) - but it must be kept in mind that in a personal sense vows to God are a very serious matter.
I know a few religious personally and for quite a few years. Certainly, they live far better than I do in a financial sense in all matters connected to finances and all matters now days are related to financies most often, although I sang joyfully tonight at Mass "Let the poor sing "I am rich" ". Chastity is the same for us all I think. As for obedience - to a certain degree, I have my spiritual director.....after that, I wish someone would make all the hard decisions for me about daily life and related matters and that I didn't have to make them all myself and then carry them through. I wish someone else had to worry about paying the bills and putting food on the table. I wish someone else would answer the phone and doorbell and tell me what to do. LOL! I never lived so well as when I was in monastic life and knew it.
As for catechisis. Were it me, I would be talking to my parish priest about it and going from there.

[quote]And why did you choose that instead of religious life or marriage?[/quote]

Because I went through a process of discernment and it was affirmed for me that I had a call to the single state under private vows and to a quite specific way of life or lifestyle - affirmed by my then Archbishop on Diocessan letterhead ,which I treasure.


God bless - Barb

Edited February 19, 2011 by BarbaraTherese

[Chamomile]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1298115226' post='2213803']
Hi Chamomile - There can be nothing higher or greater than God's Will, no matter what His Will may be. Hence, I dont have that mindset that one vocation and call from God is greater than another - each is an expression of God's Will and nothing can be greater than God's Will for a person, no matter what His Will may be. It is God's Will that is deserving of all praise and thanksgiving.

There is much discussion nowadays on the single lay state as a vocation and these discussion are quite new more or less in The Church. Some agree, some disagree and it seems to be a matter of opinion more or less often. It all depends, I think, often on what one wants to believe which probably will determine who and what one quotes in support of what one wants to believe. Perhaps one day The Church will come out with a document on the single lay state as a vocation, although to my mind it is not necessary and all is covered in CHRISTIFIDELES LAICI if one has a careful prayerful read of the Document. As I said in another post, we can forget that our Baptism is a vocation with no strict necessity for God to call one out of the lay state and the vocation of baptism and all it entails into the priesthood, religious life, marriage or some other form of consecrated life in The Church. The Church does not teach that we must enter into either marriage, priesthood or consecrated life in The Church. Most often it seems that He does and all praise and thanksgiving to Him for these vocations and calls. Because, to speak personally, He has not called me thus, do I consider my own vocation and call to the single lay state not comparable with the Sacrament of Marriage or consecrated life? Not at all, it is God's Will that is great in all its manifestations small and great. Very obviously, I would be gravely in error to choose Marraige because it is a Sacrament or religious life because it is the consecrated state knowing that I am not called. I am not called to either the Sacrament of Marriage or to religious life but to the single lay state and this is God's Will for me and nothing can be comparable to that! Personally again, it was not something I just decided to do - it was a journey and with advice from two theologians which included one who was my confessor and director ....... and I didn't really understand what I was trying to discern since back over 30 years ago the single lay state as a vocation was unheard of in the ppublic sense generally in The Church. It has always been, however, in a theological sense, a potential call and vocation from God.

If I start considering "comparable" then is a Sacrament on the same level as the consecrated state? But I just dont think along those lines in any way at all and find it near on impossible to get my head around such matters and leave it to the theologians. Nothing can be higher than God's Will in all its manifestations.
[/quote]



I'm sorry if what I wrote sounded like I was assigning levels of goodness to certain states of life. I think we all agree that God's will is the ultimate best for each individual person.

By "comparable," I meant in terms of witness, history, theology, recognition, and probably other aspects I can't think to name right now. Also, the duties of the traditionally-recognized vocations are very obvious and special I think - Consecration of the Eucharist for priests and the creation of life for married couples, to name the most important. It's a little bit less detailed when one speaks of a single vocation as there aren't these specific roles or even a traditional understanding of what it means to live that life. All comparable means is that something has a similar aspect, not that a priest is a better person or more closely following God's will than a single person. Sorry for the misunderstanding!

Since you brought up the idea of a vocation being "higher" or on a different "level," I feel like I have to say that the Church has said celibacy is a calling higher than marriage - if it is given to one to be able to embrace that life. And of course, if you're living a single life, you are celibate. [url="http://www.religious-vocation.com/"]Here[/url] are some quotes on that. One could actually go much deeper into it than that website, which I think might make someone who's married feel inferior (even though it tries to explain it down at the bottom... but I still wouldn't want to show this to many of my married non-Catholic friends!), but that's not what we're talking about here. However, I thought I should bring that up, since the Church has actually spoken quite a few times on the preference for celibacy, if one can live that life. But even though the language of a "higher calling" is used, that's not the same as giving someone a level or status in regards to their vocation. I don't think following the "higher" calling of celibacy or discerning that marriage is the right vocation for a person would ever contradict God's will if one is open to truly knowing God's will.

I enjoyed reading your answers to my initial questions. I pray that God will bless you in your pursuit of holiness

Edited February 19, 2011 by Chamomile

[dominicansoul]

to be honest, all this talk about the single vocation makes me feel that i'm pretty much ready to die. Come Lord Jesus!

(I wish He would come already!)

[Chamomile]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1298149077' post='2213894']
to be honest, all this talk about the single vocation makes me feel that i'm pretty much ready to die. Come Lord Jesus!

(I wish He would come already!)
[/quote]

I make you want to die?!?!?! [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/cry2.gif[/img]

[url="http://www.avemariasingles.com/"]Ave Maria Singles[/url]

[BarbTherese]

Quoting Chamomile:
[quote]I'm sorry if what I wrote sounded like I was assigning levels of goodness to certain states of life. I think we all agree that God's will is the ultimate best for each individual person. [/quote]

Hi again Chamomile - When one considers the different vocations in life, I think that there are two levels. There is the theological aspect in all its aspects and this is where levels, to me sadly, can enter into the picture. Then there is the personal level and as you state, nothing can be higheror better than God's Will for an individual. If God calls one to a "lesser" vocation in the eyes of theologians, does this mean that God thinks less or loves less the person involved. Not at all and what it takes on the part of the person is a shift in perspective and attitude and to focus on God and His Will lovingly, rather than theologians 'weighing up' a scale of importance.
[quote]By "comparable," I meant in terms of witness, history, theology, recognition, and probably other aspects I can't think to name right now. Also, the duties of the traditionally-recognized vocations are very obvious and special I think - Consecration of the Eucharist for priests and the creation of life for married couples, to name the most important. It's a little bit less detailed when one speaks of a single vocation as there aren't these specific roles or even a traditional understanding of what it means to live that life. All comparable means is that something has a similar aspect, not that a priest is a better person or more closely following God's will than a single person. Sorry for the misunderstanding! [/quote]
And I apologize for misunderstanding. The single state embraced as God's call and vocation is only just now, more or less, becoming a subject under much discussion within The Church. Theologically it has always been a possibility - but in some ways we are still struggling with our pre V2 consciousness - in which "vocation" was only considered as the priesthood or religious life. Marriage very rightly has emerged and been included although there was a struggle to do so, the single state as vocation (not as the default) is still emerging, still struggling.
As an accepted call and vocation from God, there is a certain freedom in defining it - wisely under the auspices of a spiritual director guiding to discern God's Will. In many ways the single state as a vocation embraced under private vows to the evengelical counsels is similar to that of religious life in structure anyway if not the ABC's of daily life. There is very often a charism to be lived out in poverty, chastity and obedience. There is, most often I should imagine, a structure of formal daily prayer and other structures to inform and encourage on the spiritual level.

What has arisen inThe Church and been officially accepted are secular institutes of consecrated life. I am thinking of "The Leaven" (Carmelite Ancient Observance or O.Carm) which began as a struggle to establish a religious life per se. But along the way it was discerned that God had otherplans, and the membership live in their own homes and do not wear habits but ordinary clothing - but it is a formal consecrated way of life in The Church. It is also a very hidden life unlike religious life where there is some outward manifestation of identity.

[quote]Since you brought up the idea of a vocation being "higher" or on a different "level," I feel like I have to say that the Church has said celibacy is a calling higher than marriage - if it is given to one to be able to embrace that life. And of course, if you're living a single life, you are celibate. [url="http://www.religious-vocation.com/"]Here[/url] are some quotes on that. One could actually go much deeper into it than that website, which I think might make someone who's married feel inferior (even though it tries to explain it down at the bottom... but I still wouldn't want to show this to many of my married non-Catholic friends!), but that's not what we're talking about here. However, I thought I should bring that up, since the Church has actually spoken quite a few times on the preference for celibacy, if one can live that life. But even though the language of a "higher calling" is used, that's not the same as giving someone a level or status in regards to their vocation. I don't think following the "higher" calling of celibacy or discerning that marriage is the right vocation for a person would ever contradict God's will if one is open to truly knowing God's will.[/quote] I am afraid that I just can't get my head around all this higher and lower, lesser etc. It is for theologians to argue these things for their own reasons but they have not convinced me yet, although The Church does make certain statements and I bow to a far superior and Graced wisdom than my own, while I have difficulties doing so and cannot understand. I cannot understand this "higher calling" business. Certainly religious life is the state of perfection - that state in life which has perfection as its primary focus and its very structure will ideally lead the person to perfection. This has nothing at all to do with the fact, to my mind, that other vocations are "lesser" vocations or that God has greater plans for those in religious life, or loves them more. He is simply asking them to attain perfection in the state of perfection.We are all called to perfection with The Grace to achieve it, but not all are called to the state of perfection. "All is Grace"(St Therese) and living the religious life is a Grace, married life is a Grace, single celibacy is a Grace. Without Grace it would be absolutely impossible for anyone to live their particular vocation and this in essence, is what "vocation" means. It is a call from God to live in a certain way with the guarantee of alll Grace necessary to live that way of life and to perfection.
Higher, lesser etc. etc. are all worldly type thinking and equasions to my mind and there is that something in we human beings that wants to be higher and not lesser etc. than the next person, hence that type of thinking feeds into that very something in us that we strive to overcome. I think that what we need is a shift of focus off self, "me", and to focus on The Lord and to strive to love Him and His Will no matter what it may be.
No concept can create a reality. It is only a human concept. If I were to read or someone say to me that the single celibate state can only be a transition state to marraige or religious life, I have a choice. I can state my case, or I can say "OK!". All I would be arguing were human concepts or agreeing with a human concept in the interests of Peace. Sure, there is a reality involved and that reality to my mind is still struggling to emerge and I try to listen to that struggle for cues and clues - hope that makes some sense.
I agree with you that if one has a desire and genuine focus to know and do The Will of God, they cannot go wrong. God would never allow such a thing for the person obviously loves Him. He is The All Faithful ONe. We need to remember too that "vocation" is only ever an invitation and not a Divine Command.
[quote]I enjoyed reading your answers to my initial questions. I pray that God will bless you in your pursuit of holiness [/quote] God's richest blessings on you and yours also and in your own persuit of holiness.....Barb

[JenDeMaria]

Just as an added aside, Saint Rose of Lima (who was extremely devoted to Saint Catherine of Sienna, btw) desperately wanted to become a Dominican but could not because of her family. She became a 3rd order Dominican, instead, made private vows of celibacy and lived in a little hermitage in her parents backyard and looked over a number of destitute sick people.

In my extremely humble and most likely poorly informed opinion, it seems that if God only gives us desires He intends to fulfill (though sometimes in a rather round-about way, as with Saint Catherine and Saint Rose, who could not fully live a religious life) that God would not give us a total absence of desire to enter into a state of life, if we were truly intended for it. If a person has absolutely no desire for a husband or a family, wouldn't that seem like a sign that their calling might lie elsewhere?

Saint Teresa Benedicta of the Cross lived for a number of years in a very unusual situation in which she taught at a Dominican school, living side by side with the nuns, participating in the common recitation of the Divine Office and living religious life as nearly as she could while the Church continued to encourage her to postpone entering Carmel -- and if Hitler had not attained power, if the Shoah had never happened, might she have been required to live this life indefinitely? If so would you say that such a condition would not have been a Vocation, but a personal calling, a private mission of sorts? (And why do so many people who want to be religious, but can't, associate with the Dominicans?)

I know Saint Thomas made the case that not even religious callings are Vocations-properly-so-called, stating that only priests are truly called by Christ, with the implication, I think, that the rest of us are given [i]missions[/i], we are sent out into the world with work to do but are not given the specific "Come and follow me" mandate to live [i]in persona Christi[/i] as priests are called to do. Still, this seems a bit like splitting hairs when the Church frequently teaches that we have a common vocation to holiness, an expression which would seem to gloss the word vocation rather simply as "a calling to live as God intends us to live, according to His divine will"

Saint Francis de Sales said "A true vocation is nothing other than a strong, unchanging will that the person who is called possesses, so as to want to serve God in the way and in the place where the Divine Majesty calls her." I think that makes sense. I can't remember if Jennifer Moorecraft said that Saint Teresa of the Andes went through a period in which she felt as though God was calling her to value conformity to His will above her own desire to enter religious life, or if that's simply a private anecdote I read on Phatmass. But I think you could easily make the point that the true fulfillment in any vocation lies in the "Fiat voluntas Tua".