American People.

[Ed Normile]

American people are the greatest collection of people ever to cohabitate a nation. They are of every race every creed and every conviction. They are endowed with freedoms that allow them to act in any way they choose as long as it does affect anothers freedoms or security. They are the most generous people on the earth, the most forgiving, they are capable of immeasurable kindness, they are the worlds innovators, they set the standards the rest of the world tries to match. They live in the land of oppurtunity, the home of the free and the brave, they have liberated the oppressed at great personal cost, they are the torch that the unfortunate seek out to lead them when fleeing abuses. God blesses Americans as Americans bless God.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

Gee, what America do you live in? I'd love to join you.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298787465' post='2216078']
Gee, what America do you live in? I'd love to join you.
[/quote]


That was quick Nihil, what do you have against Americans? By the way I live in the same America that you do, North America.

ed

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm a sniper that way.

I have nothing against Americans, but I have a lot against the things that are happening in (though certainly not peculiar to) the United States.

[Anastasia13]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298788412' post='2216083']
I'm a sniper that way.

I have nothing against Americans, but I have a lot against the things that are happening in (though certainly not peculiar to) the United States.
[/quote]
I knew the America of my dreams was dead a year or so after 9/11. I hold dear much of what I know of what we were founded on, but we are far from what we could be. God have mercy on us all and help us all. Oh, that I were less of a proud and naive idealist.

[Nihil Obstat]

I truly doubt that anyone living has seen an America true to its founding principles. That said, the decline has been far more visible in the more recent years.

[add]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298791295' post='2216092']
I truly doubt that anyone living has seen an America true to its founding principles. That said, the decline has been far more visible in the more recent years.
[/quote]

way better than living in Libya or Egypt or China or [i]North Korea and the like, if you get my drift.
America is the land of milk and honey[/i]

Edited February 27, 2011 by apparently

[MithLuin]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1298808539' post='2216098']
way better than living in Libya or Egypt or China or North Korea and the like, if you get my drift.
America is the land of milk and honey
[/quote]

THIS.

I think it is...foolish...to ignore the problems in America. The breakdown of the family, the erosion of a sense of personal responsibility, our financial crisis, etc.

But at the same time...it would be equally naive to focus only on our problems, and forget that there is much that makes this nation great. I can't think of anywhere else in the world I'd rather live.

Well, okay, I haven't visited New Zealand or Ireland yet. Maybe that would change my mind

[Ice_nine]

viva americana!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1298808539' post='2216098']
way better than living in Libya or Egypt or China or [i]North Korea and the like, if you get my drift.
America is the land of milk and honey[/i]
[/quote]
That is true, but saying other places are worse doesn't make America good.

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298824107' post='2216124']
That is true, but saying other places are worse doesn't make America good.
[/quote]


Granted, but neither does focusing on the negatives. Look, I am not saying that Americans are perfect now, nor that they have ever been perfect. If one wants to see a brighter future for this or any other country they have to have hope, hope is not nurtured through a defeatist attitude. The thing that makes Americans so great is the inclusiveness of their society, that is also what distracts from their greatness, all in all I think it is a great balance, based on freedom and malleable.

ed

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='apparently' timestamp='1298808539' post='2216098']
way better than living in Libya or Egypt or China or [i]North Korea and the like, if you get my drift.
America is the land of milk and honey[/i]
[/quote]

Well, maybe physically our country isn't suffering as your examples are. But I find that the souls of the people are starving and dying every day.

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1298824107' post='2216124']
That is true, but saying other places are worse doesn't make America good.
[/quote]

Exactly.


And Ed, no offense here but America is a joke to me now. And sure we can focus on positives all we want, but to me that doesn't make me want to break out into the national anthem. I stopped singing it a long time ago, along with the pledge.....

We are so ready to go to bat when Pro-Life issues come up, but low the person that tries to attack the [b][i]country[/i][/b]!

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1298824710' post='2216128']
Granted, but neither does focusing on the negatives. Look, I am not saying that Americans are perfect now, nor that they have ever been perfect. If one wants to see a brighter future for this or any other country they have to have hope, hope is not nurtured through a defeatist attitude. The thing that makes Americans so great is the inclusiveness of their society, that is also what distracts from their greatness, all in all I think it is a great balance, based on freedom and malleable.

ed
[/quote]
All I'm saying is that I think we can do better. Much, much better.
However, like removing a tumour, getting rid of a repressive state would be painful.

[Sternhauser]

Virtue is what makes people great.

As for the "love it or leave it" cliches, since that's where it is headed: the United State is not a place. Nor is America the United State and its policies. If the State and its mini-states were all dismantled tomorrow, America would still remain.

~Sternhauser

Edited February 27, 2011 by Sternhauser

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='ThePenciledOne' timestamp='1298825260' post='2216130']
Well, maybe physically our country isn't suffering as your examples are. But I find that the souls of the people are starving and dying every day.



Exactly.


And Ed, no offense here but America is a joke to me now. And sure we can focus on positives all we want, but to me that doesn't make me want to break out into the national anthem. I stopped singing it a long time ago, along with the pledge.....

We are so ready to go to bat when Pro-Life issues come up, but low the person that tries to attack the [b][i]country[/i][/b]!
[/quote]


Penciled? Low the person who attacks the country, this is true of attacks of a military or terroristic nature, but practically everybody attacks the country every day, including our President, he has apologized for his perceived failings of Americans across the world repeatedly, people like you are able to write negative things like this in a public forum without fear of reproach. Do you think you could do this in China? Tomorrow you could go to any government gathering with a protest sign, stand there and waive it and yell down with America, or Obama smells of elderberries, or even burn our flag and you may end up on TV, but you would not be detained unless you assaulted another, and you definetly would not be disappeared. If you truly think you have it so bad why don't you look into life in N. Korea ? We as Americans are spolied, none of us here has ever had to suffer the indignities of famine or a government that controls our religious practices or limits our ability to dissent through use of violence. When was the last time you were hungry and could not feed yourself as there was no food in your local stores, the last time you or a family or friend of yours was hauled away for stating something against the government policies or leaders. I can post America smells of elderberries and not fear retaliation, and I post using my real name.

ed

Edited February 27, 2011 by Ed Normile

[ThePenciledOne]

[quote name='Ed Normile' timestamp='1298826634' post='2216134']
Penciled? Low the person who attacks the country, this is true of attacks of a military or terroristic nature, but practically everybody attacks the country every day, including our President, he has apologized for his perceived failings of Americans across the world repeatedly, people like you are able to write negative things like this in a public forum with fear of reproach. Do you think you could do this in China? Tomorrow you could go to any government gathering with a protest sign, stand there and waive it and yell down with America, or Obama smells of elderberries, or even burn our flag and you may end up on TV, but you would not be detained unless you assaulted another, and you definitely would not be disappeared. If you truly think you have it so bad why don't you look into life in N. Korea ?
[/quote]

Ed, if I had a dime for everytime I was told to go live somewhere else to experiance the 'hardship' of another country, I would have enough to pay for the paper work [b][i]to [/i][/b]immigrate to another country. I have lived in this country all my life, so I can't imagine what it would be like. I don't think any of us can, unless we [i][b]have[/b][/i] lived there. So, I find this argument slanted and in nothing else a little ad homien as well. Another thing is that good ol America despite having all this 'freedom' we don't spread it, instead we smell of elderberries up to places like China because they pick up our debt.

[quote]
We as Americans are spoiled, none of us here has ever had to suffer the indignities of famine or a government that controls our religious practices or limits our ability to dissent through use of violence. When was the last time you were hungry and could not feed yourself as there was no food in your local stores, the last time you or a family or friend of yours was hauled away for stating something against the government policies ir leaders. I can post America smells of elderberries and not fear retaliation, and I post using my real name.

ed
[/quote]

Yeah, we are spoiled as Americans. Yet, we are as happy as clams to keep doing what we are doing aren't we? Even Catholics are happy to carry on spending in the consumer 'I want' mentality of America. (I am at fault in this as well) So, what is your point? Of course there are and more than likely will be starving children in Africa and China and wherever else, because we feel a need to build more tanks then feed 1,000 villages with that spending. I am not willing to just sit and twiddle my thumbs and say America is just so fantastic! I am grateful that I do have the rights that I do have, but then they are intrinsic to all human persons anyway, the "State" doesn't give them.

And I'm glad you use your real name. I don't hide mine either.

[Lilllabettt]

Patriotism is a virtue. Truly it is. Look it up.

I love America. I like American culture best. Not to say its "better" -- but I like it best. I'm also proud of my American citizenship. That ranks with the best things my parents ever game me. They got me baptized, they gave me brothers and a sister , and they made sure I had American citizenship, with all the rights and privileges that are due thereby.

I think the American story has been tragic, but also breathtaking, incredible and frankly miraculous. All you out there who think the American dream is dead - maybe it is for you. But there are still millions of people who dream of coming here, millions who struggle and sacrifice and risk their lives to get here, and millions who hold up our way of life as an ideal model for their own country.

All countries and cultures are beautiful and priceless and are an utterly unique gift. But until I see the heavenly country, I know America will always be the most beautiful to me.

[Ed Normile]

[b]Ed, if I had a dime for everytime I was told to go live somewhere else to experiance the 'hardship' of another country, I would have enough to pay for the paper work [i]to [/i]immigrate to another country.

[/b]Penciled, sorry to tell you, but you would be one dime short as I did not tell you to move to another country, I simply wrote look up what life would be like there. What would cause you to think I would want you to leave America, its young people like you who are the future of this country, stay put man and strive for greatness, lead by personal example, be a beacon not an eyesore. I never said your views were wrong, I feel they are skewed though, perhaps through the minor hardships we are facing right now. God forbid we ever have to face true shortages like those of the "greatest generation" had to face during WW2, think of the whining that would deafen us during gas rationing stamps, and nylon, rubber and even food shortages, and nightime blackouts. Loose lips sink ships!

ed

[Ed Normile]

[quote name='Lilllabettt' timestamp='1298827855' post='2216138']
Patriotism is a virtue. Truly it is. Look it up.

I love America. I like American culture best. Not to say its "better" -- but I like it best. I'm also proud of my American citizenship. That ranks with the best things my parents ever game me. They got me baptized, they gave me brothers and a sister , and they made sure I had American citizenship, with all the rights and privileges that are due thereby.

I think the American story has been tragic, but also breathtaking, incredible and frankly miraculous. All you out there who think the American dream is dead - maybe it is for you. But there are still millions of people who dream of coming here, millions who struggle and sacrifice and risk their lives to get here, and millions who hold up our way of life as an ideal model for their own country.

All countries and cultures are beautiful and priceless and are an utterly unique gift. But until I see the heavenly country, I know America will always be the most beautiful to me.
[/quote]

Lillabett, you bless America!

ed

[Mr.Cat]

The United States is still struggling to find acceptable and effective solutions to many diplomatic, military, political, social, environmental, educational, medical, resource, employment, and economic issues. Other countries have their fair share of problems, but I somehow imagine it's not like here. Because here you have a large portion of the population that for lack of better description are in denial and are hostile to change. Because of that, we as Americans tend to choose the worst parts of ideas then apply them in the stupidest way possible.

While we tend to blame politicians, we need not look far to who elect those politicians, complacency rules the day here.

I do have a patriotic love of my nation, it's history, my heritage, and even my state despite it's faults. Patriotism is not denial, in fact I think a true compatriot will see and admit to problems working to a common and mutual soultion. But the fact that as I drive through my own city I see a vibrant Vietnamese Catholic Community flying the former flag of South Vietnam, breath taking.

Americans need to wake up and reclaim their land.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Mr.CatholicCat