StMichael Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 Right wing? Domestic terrorists are usually of the socialist wing. The Weather Underground wanted to demolish America and make it a socialist country. The Unabomber wanted an end to our "industrial-technological system." We do not have enough information to begin to accuse the "right" of anything until we find out who this evil person was, which wanted to exact absolute disruption on a country by murdering its children. As for Timothy McVeigh he "wanted to become a mercenary for the Middle East because they paid the most.", as he stated to a military buddy during Operation Desert Storm. Hardly American Right Wing if this book can be believed (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785261036/wwwpostalworkers). Jared Lee Loughner, also out of the gate as a "right winger" was actually anti-Christian, anti-Constitution, left-wing, pro-Marx, antiflag, “quite liberal” lunatic (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/01/shooter-jarod-laughner/) Acts of domestic terrorism are always performed by anyone but the right wing. [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1311397629' post='2274203'] It sounds like the guy is a Norwegian Tim McVey. Not Al Q, not a Libyan hardliner, a homegrown right wing extremist. [/quote]
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 (edited) What does "right wing" mean exactly, in this context? When I hear that term I think of the republican party, George W. Bush, and various cliche positions on various popular political and social issues. How does this apply to Norway? Are there radical left wingers whose ideology moves them to acts of terrorism? I don't pay much attention to politics. Also, does anyone have sources that present reliable information about the Norway person's intentions and motives? edit: typo Edited July 23, 2011 by Laudate_Dominum
Vincent Vega Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1311405911' post='2274260'] Acts of domestic terrorism are always performed by anyone but the right wing. [/quote] Well at least we aren't making sweeping generalizations.
Jesus_lol Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 next we are gonna hear how organizations like the KKK are secretly politically and socially liberal.
4588686 Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1311405911' post='2274260'] Right wing? Domestic terrorists are usually of the socialist wing. The Weather Underground wanted to demolish America and make it a socialist country. The Unabomber wanted an end to our "industrial-technological system." We do not have enough information to begin to accuse the "right" of anything until we find out who this evil person was, which wanted to exact absolute disruption on a country by murdering its children. As for Timothy McVeigh he "wanted to become a mercenary for the Middle East because they paid the most.", as he stated to a military buddy during Operation Desert Storm. Hardly American Right Wing if this book can be believed ([url="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785261036/wwwpostalworkers"]http://www.amazon.co...wwpostalworkers[/url]). Jared Lee Loughner, also out of the gate as a "right winger" was actually anti-Christian, anti-Constitution, left-wing, pro-Marx, antiflag, "quite liberal" lunatic ([url="http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/01/shooter-jarod-laughner/"]http://www.thegatewa...jarod-laughner/[/url]) Acts of domestic terrorism are always performed by anyone but the right wing. [/quote] Honestly, shut the floopy up.
kujo Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='StMichael' timestamp='1311405911' post='2274260'] Right wing? Domestic terrorists are usually of the socialist wing. The Weather Underground wanted to demolish America and make it a socialist country. The Unabomber wanted an end to our "industrial-technological system." We do not have enough information to begin to accuse the "right" of anything until we find out who this evil person was, which wanted to exact absolute disruption on a country by murdering its children. As for Timothy McVeigh he "wanted to become a mercenary for the Middle East because they paid the most.", as he stated to a military buddy during Operation Desert Storm. Hardly American Right Wing if this book can be believed (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0785261036/wwwpostalworkers). Jared Lee Loughner, also out of the gate as a "right winger" was actually anti-Christian, anti-Constitution, left-wing, pro-Marx, antiflag, “quite liberal” lunatic (http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2011/01/shooter-jarod-laughner/) Acts of domestic terrorism are always performed by anyone but the right wing. [/quote] This is the most ridiculous post ever. Calling oneself a "Christian fundamentalist"--which this guy they currently have in custody has-- makes you a part of the far-right. It also apparently protects you from being called a "terrorist," as many media outlets have switched to the more innocuous term "madman." This shouldn't come as a surprise, since that guy out in Arizona wasn't called a "terrorist" either, though if his name had been Ali Mahmoud, it might have been covered a little differently.
stevil Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 I really think it would be wise to wait for the information to be collected and analised before jumping to some conclusions to support a personal political agenda. At the moment we have no idea what was the driver behind this horrific situation.
Lil Red Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='stevil' timestamp='1311459250' post='2274501'] I really think it would be wise to wait for the information to be collected and analised before jumping to some conclusions to support a personal political agenda. At the moment we have no idea what was the driver behind this horrific situation. [/quote] these posts are split from the original topic in open mic. (just fyi)
Winchester Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311406710' post='2274265'] next we are gonna hear how organizations like the KKK are secretly politically and socially liberal. [/quote] "Leftism" and "liberal" aren't really synonymous. Nazis were leftists, but certainly not socially liberal. The terms have become a bit confused, anyway. It used to be liberals were concerned with personal liberties protected by a small government that didn't play favorites and was not profligate in spending and taxation.
CatherineM Posted July 23, 2011 Posted July 23, 2011 The only reason I mentioned his being named as a "right-winger" is because every Norwegian official being interviewed used the term. It is how they are going to view the events, and potentially react to them.
Jesus_lol Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1311464305' post='2274536'] The only reason I mentioned his being named as a "right-winger" is because every Norwegian official being interviewed used the term. It is how they are going to view the events, and potentially react to them. [/quote] He is also described as having turned into an "extremist right winger" by all his childhood friends, and identifies as a right wing, nationalist, anti muslim conservative christian. how is there any confusion on this issue? sometimes people that agree with you on certain issues do horrible things. get the hell over it, dont try and rewrite history on this guy to suit yourself. It is extremely telling how many rightwing bloggers and pundits immediately went on the offensive, assuming that this guy was a muslim. suggesting bombing another muslim country etc, yet immediately went quiet when it turned out that the guy subscribed to many of the same views as them and their readers/listeners. cowardice, really. edit: this is not really in response to CatherineM, though her post prompted mine, twas in response to the thread starter and others with that mindset. Edited July 24, 2011 by Jesus_lol
Lil Red Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311486134' post='2274758'] sometimes people that agree with you on certain issues do horrible things. get the hell over it, dont try and rewrite history on this guy to suit yourself. [/quote] i didn't think CatherineM was doing that.
Jesus_lol Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1311486504' post='2274762'] i didn't think CatherineM was doing that. [/quote] no no, catherine has been posting just fine. i was refering to StMichael, the "thread starter" in the split off. and others like him i have encountered recently.
Winchester Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 Many right wing bloggers are really a bunch of leftist nimrods who have some vestigial christianity regarding which hoo-hoos are compatible. The problem is that someone who talks about Jesus and then views the State as a means of favoring the groups he likes is labeled "right wing" when in fact he is a leftist that wants to control people in the name of Jesus rather than in the name of (insert indisputable leftist icon that will not arouse dispute). I do think domestic terrorists in authoritarian cultures will possibly be of the individual liberty bent, but right now it looks like he's some weirdo christian maniac person who also opposes immigration (left wing).
Lil Red Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311486713' post='2274765'] no no, catherine has been posting just fine. i was refering to StMichael, the "thread starter" in the split off. and others like him i have encountered recently. [/quote] oh, okay...sorry, i got confused since you quoted her, nevermind me....i'm a little
Jesus_lol Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1311486790' post='2274766'] Many right wing bloggers are really a bunch of leftist nimrods who have some vestigial christianity regarding which hoo-hoos are compatible. The problem is that someone who talks about Jesus and then views the State as a means of favoring the groups he likes is labeled "right wing" when in fact he is a leftist that wants to control people in the name of Jesus rather than in the name of (insert indisputable leftist icon that will not arouse dispute). I do think domestic terrorists in authoritarian cultures will possibly be of the individual liberty bent, but right now it looks like he's some weirdo christian maniac person who also opposes immigration (left wing). [/quote] the problem with melting it down to the most basic "leftist like government in everything" and "right-ists like government in nothing", aside from being over simplified and untrue, is that those labels do not really apply to the political landscape in most countries, especially not the USA. the Conservative, Republican, GOP, Tea Party, etc "right wing" of the USA has matching views as the oslo shooter in many important areas, making him for all intents and purposes "right wing". modern(and not so modern) Conservative thinking includes stuff like being anti immigration, racist policies, anti muslim etc etc. Edited July 24, 2011 by Jesus_lol
Jesus_lol Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1311486806' post='2274767'] oh, okay...sorry, i got confused since you quoted her, nevermind me....i'm a little [/quote] no problem, my post was badly laid out. i put in an edit
Laudate_Dominum Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 I'm not saying that this is applicable to the Norway tragedy, but it seems appropriate to this thread at least. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics"]Right-wing politics[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism"]Right-wing terrorism[/url] I think the term should be 'neo-fascist terrorism' instead of right-wing terrorism. No?
Winchester Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1311487095' post='2274770'] the problem with melting it down to the most basic "leftist like government in everything" and "right-ists like government in nothing", aside from being over simplified and untrue, is that those labels do not really apply to the political landscape in most countries, especially not the USA. the Conservative, Republican, GOP, Tea Party, etc "right wing" of the USA has matching views as the oslo shooter in many important areas, making him for all intents and purposes "right wing". modern(and not so modern) Conservative thinking includes stuff like being anti immigration, racist policies, anti muslim etc etc. [/quote] It exists along a spectrum and people are quite capable of favoring leftism or right wing ideology in different aspects of society. I avoided "conservative" as a term for a reason: it is not a synonym for "right wing". Many American conservatives are devoted to left wing ideals. Even their idea of free market falls firmly on the left side, with subsidies and catering to special interests in order to centrally plan economies (to a greater or lesser extent). This guy might be a social conservative. That does not mean he believes in individual liberty and limited government. His politics might be left wing while his social policies are conservative. Yes, lots of self-identified right wingers are anti-immigrant. Lots of self-identified leftists claim to believe in private property. People are capable of holding contradictory beliefs. Lots of American lefties reject strict immigration laws. They do this because they're told to by the people who maintain power through reducing government influence in this one area. FDR controlled immigration because it is part and parcel of central planning--which is Leftist. This guy might reject central planning. He might be an anarchist (or think he is), but nationalism is leftist. Anti-immigration is leftist. Anarchism is the extreme right--you might find an anarchist who has nationalist tendencies but that would be a flaw. In all likelihood, this is another Leftist with delusions about attaining liberty through a bureaucracy that uses Christian terms to justify running everyone's lives.
Winchester Posted July 24, 2011 Posted July 24, 2011 [quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1311487861' post='2274779'] I'm not saying that this is applicable to the Norway tragedy, but it seems appropriate to this thread at least. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_politics"]Right-wing politics[/url] [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-wing_terrorism"]Right-wing terrorism[/url] I think the term should be 'neo-fascist terrorism' instead of right-wing terrorism. No? [/quote] The problem is the desire to distance National Socialism from leftism has led people to describe fascism (which involves strong authoritarian power and centralized government) as right wing. It's delusional. I would argue that nationalism, which puts an arbitrary collective above the individual is by its very nature leftist. I would argue that, perversely, a singular dedication to anarchy could lead one to establish a leftist government. In fact, at some point, radical individualism could lead to an authoritarian leftist regime. A sort of commitment to one's own liberty at the expense of others.
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