Is The Old Testement Really Gods Word ?

[Guest]

Ok just looked at the links Mr. Cat provided. Looked over them briefly. I'm actually suprised mods haven't removed them. The links he provides are going to attack your faith. I only brushed over it but I'm just wondering what is the Churches teaching on the old testament ? What does it say about the stories of Moses leading armies to kill even women and babies ? And the rape ? Are we supposed to believe all these stories in the old testament ? Are we required to ? After looking at that website I can see where Mr. Cat is coming from. It doesn't change my faith in God or that He is good. But it makes me question if the Bible is 100 percent true and really if one should even read parts of it.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

I can't spell...Thread title should read old testament not testement...I always got knocked out spelling bees in the first round ...I smell of elderberries....

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

I always knew about the stories in the o.t. I guess my thing is I can't see how Jesus from the new testament and God from the old testament could be the same person. It really doesn't seem logical to me. They are complete opposite. Which leads me to the question how credibile is the old testament ?

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

If as a catholic abortion is such an issue ( which I believe it should be) how could it be even be plausible God would instruct an army to kill even babies when they invaded ? This question needs answered. Or did mabey that command really not come from God?

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Mr.Cat]

Making me feel guilty... I wish I had an answer for you. Fortunately there are plenty of people here who felt my concerns were nonsense and incoherent, maybe they can help you better than I can.

[Guest]

No need to feel guilty. My faith is really strong. You cannot tell me there is no God or we are here by chanch. You can also not tell me love is not real. Love can be seen and felt everyday all around you. God is love. My faith is not shaken. Although you do bring up legitment concerns with the old testament. I always knew those concerns were there I just never gave them much thought and did not really know specific details.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

The only part I have trouble with would be the slaying of young children and babies and the rape. I have no problem with God killing through plauges and diseases and whatever else. I also have no problem with people dying from war. War and killing can be just and we all die. Ok just wanted to make that clear.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[Guest]

So I guess my question is do I have to believe all of the old testament. I mean I'm a catholic not a protestant. I'm a little confused about this and when I came back to christianity it was via protestant teaching and sola scripture. Beliving literally everything in the bible is word for word. Was jonas really in a whale ? Was he ?

[LadyOfSorrows]

Well, without the Old Testament, we wouldn't have what was needed to be fulfilled with the coming of Jesus. To understand the New Testament to is know the Old Testament in context. Although we may not be able to prove specific details, we are able to see certain events taking place or people living at a certain time through historical and geographical study. But we must remember that at the time of the Old Testament, the scientific advancements we have today did not exist, so many things pertaining to historical and scientific details are a little off. Many details of the Old Testament, including those that pertain to destruction were probably exaggerated to get a point across to the people the books were addressing.

[stevil]

Didn't god directly kill a bunch of first born Egyptian babies, in an attempt to prove god's own existence.
Couldn't the almighty have thought of a better way to prove existence, one that doesn't involve killing innocent babies?

[Guest]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1316974852' post='2309815']Didn't god directly kill a bunch of first born Egyptian babies, in an attempt to prove god's own existence.
Couldn't the almighty have thought of a better way to prove existence, one that doesn't involve killing innocent babies?[/quote] I don't know this story mabey someone else could chime in. But if its in the old testament I don't think I believe it. It seems the Jewish God and the Christian God are not the same.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[stevil]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1316975202' post='2309821']
I don't know this story mabey someone else could chime in. But if its in the old testament I don't think I believe it. It seems the Jewish God and the Christian God are not the same.
[/quote]
As a Jew, Jesus worshipped the Jewish god.

[Guest]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1316976022' post='2309838']
As a Jew, Jesus worshipped the Jewish god.[/quote] Jesus was God and spoke nothing but peace and forgivness.

Edited September 25, 2011 by Guest

[stevil]

You , of course know about the great flood.
Do you remember reading that god spared the babies of the world, or did they drown too?

[Guest]

I'm not sure ?

[Amppax]

[quote name='Delivery Boy' timestamp='1316975202' post='2309821']
I don't know this story mabey someone else could chime in. But if its in the old testament I don't think I believe it. It seems the Jewish God and the Christian God are not the same.
[/quote]

Yes they are. Don't be a Marcionist, they were whack.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism[/url]

[BigJon16]

Here's the thing about the Old Testament:“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17)

All of the ancient "laws" and commandments that are established in the Old Testament are fulfilled by Christ. He then sets in a more fulfilled law, which I will not paste because it is the entirety of Matthew chapter 5. You can read here if you'd like: [url="http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/5/"]http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/5/[/url].

The old laws were not complete, thus, in chapter 5, Jesus fulfills them. The main moral theme of Jesus's "fulfilled law" is: Love.

For every one time that God's wrath is spoken of in the Old Testament, His love is spoken of three times.

[quote]
If I speak in human and angelic tongues but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing.

Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, [love] is not pompous, it is not inflated, it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.

Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing. For we know partially and we prophesy partially, but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known. So faith, hope, love remain, these three; [b]but the greatest of these is love.[/b]

1 Corinthians 13.
[/quote]

[Guest]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1316979278' post='2309903']

Yes they are. Don't be a Marcionist, they were whack.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcionism[/url][/quote] Ok razzle dazzle. It makes no sense to me how Jesus can be so different from the old testament to the new testament. Unless 1.) People were representing Him wrong in the old testament or not representing him all the way acurately. 2.) Jesus the Son and God the Father are different in some areas and ways of thinking. 3.) Jesus when He was here on earth had a a more peacefull attitude then when He was not here in the old testament.

[Guest]

[quote name='BigJon16' timestamp='1316979888' post='2309924']Here's the thing about the Old Testament:“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill." (Matthew 5:17)

All of the ancient "laws" and commandments that are established in the Old Testament are fulfilled by Christ. He then sets in a more fulfilled law, which I will not paste because it is the entirety of Matthew chapter 5. You can read here if you'd like: [url="http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/5/"]http://www.usccb.org/bible/matthew/5/[/url].

The old laws were not complete, thus, in chapter 5, Jesus fulfills them. The main moral theme of Jesus's "fulfilled law" is: Love.

For every one time that God's wrath is spoken of in the Old Testament, His love is spoken of three times.

[/quote] Ok but I'm wondering more about Gods actions in the o.t. They are not compatible with the actions of Jesus in the new testament. They are night and day. They seem to be complete opposite.

[MissyP89]

That contrast is basically the whole point of our faith. Jesus came to save sinners...to restore that broken relationship between us and God.

Regarding innocent people being hurt, raped, killed ... turn on the news one night. That still happens every day, even to Christians. Loss and suffering are part of the world we live in.

At the same time, the Old Testament is part of our Scriptures because Judaism is the foundation of our faith. We need to understand what Jesus believed, and what happened in the years leading up to His birth, in order to get the full picture of WHY Jesus came.

One leads to the other. We wouldn't need Jesus if not for everything that happened in the Old Testament, starting with Adam and Eve.