Feankie Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 I don't have a scanner (and I don't know how I could scan them in anyway!) , but I'll see if I can get a decent picture of them with my IPhone. We collect (rather, I should say, [u]rescue[/u]) old Mexican and Spanish colonial-era paintings and restore and display them. We've found several under piles of boxes in junk shops all over Mexico. Just amazing what you'll find if you don't mind dust, mouse droppings, old taco wrappings, and who knows what else!!! I've tried taking photos and uploading them before and it hasn't worked very well as you don't really get the detail as they oils are so large. The largest one we have measures 4 feet high by 3 1/2 feet wide. I'm sure this one came from an old church or convent. I'm off to do a teaching session at Marquette U. this morning, so I won't have a chance til this evening. Hopefully I can get it to work. If not, I have several books with wonderful examples that would be small enough to work.
Feankie Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 Oops, sorry about the double post. Computer gremlins this morning! Hope my students are better behaved
begin_again Posted October 1, 2011 Posted October 1, 2011 These orders from Spain as depicted in the above pictures were representative of that time in history; however, as I looked at the beginning of the video twice and then decided to watch all of it again. I definitely think that the scenes and close up pictures of both the nun receiving the habit (or was it profession?) and the priest were in appropriate even if the video was trying to capture the opulence of the era. The "heartbeat sounds" did not sound like heartbeats to me! Thank God for Mother Teresa of Jesus / Avila!!!
brandelynmarie Posted October 1, 2011 Author Posted October 1, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1317471565' post='2313321'] I don't have a scanner (and I don't know how I could scan them in anyway!) , but I'll see if I can get a decent picture of them with my IPhone. We collect (rather, I should say, [u]rescue[/u]) old Mexican and Spanish colonial-era paintings and restore and display them. We've found several under piles of boxes in junk shops all over Mexico. Just amazing what you'll find if you don't mind dust, mouse droppings, old taco wrappings, and who knows what else!!! I've tried taking photos and uploading them before and it hasn't worked very well as you don't really get the detail as they oils are so large. The largest one we have measures 4 feet high by 3 1/2 feet wide. I'm sure this one came from an old church or convent. I'm off to do a teaching session at Marquette U. this morning, so I won't have a chance til this evening. Hopefully I can get it to work. If not, I have several books with wonderful examples that would be small enough to work. [/quote] Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge with us. I think it is wonderful that you guys are rescuing such an obscure yet beautiful part of history. (I'm wondering if I shouldn't start a retablo thread ) [quote name='begin_again' timestamp='1317503091' post='2313493'] These orders from Spain as depicted in the above pictures were representative of that time in history; however, as I looked at the beginning of the video twice and then decided to watch all of it again. I definitely think that the scenes and close up pictures of both the nun receiving the habit (or was it profession?) and the priest were in appropriate even if the video was trying to capture the opulence of the era. The "heartbeat sounds" did not sound like heartbeats to me! Thank God for Mother Teresa of Jesus / Avila!!! [/quote] Yes, I think that is the word I was trying to look for...opulence! It was most definitely a different understanding at that time rather than the simplicity of La Madre... Edited October 1, 2011 by brandelynmarie
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 Don't get me started on retablos. At last count we have over 300 of them in my house plus the 30 or so I've given to 2 different Poor Clare monasteries. Our children have suggested that when we die that they should be donated to a museum as they are all museum quality and many of obscure subjects in retablo art such as the Transitus of Mary.Oops, not that the children should be donated Only the retablos and the paintings!
brandelynmarie Posted October 2, 2011 Author Posted October 2, 2011 It must be amazing to have have so many of them. How long have you been working on obatining them? Do you do restoration on them as well?
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 We've been collecting them for over 35 years. No two are alike! I have two friends in California who are dealers and restorers so we've worked with them for a few of the pieces. Most of the "finding" has been done by my husband and myself on trips to small towns in Mexico and South America. Over the years we've bought and sold so we've gotten rid of the damaged ones to get the more pristine ones. Only 3 or 4 of them have really needed restoration. Not so for the paintings, though. Many of them are original (no restoration), on their original stretchers with their original frames. Several have had to be cleaned professionally, but not really restored save one that had about a 8 inch rip down it's side. Now you would never know it had been torn. Since some of canvases were found rolled up or had boxes on top of them for many years, they needed to be put on new stretchers. As my husband is from Mexico, when we need frames we have them made there in the style of the painting. A few of the retablos are in tin nichos and orginal painted frames, but the vast majority are just the tin retablos with a hole punched in the top to hang it from a nail.We have them all over the house, including the kitchen where St. Pascal Baillon holds a place of prominence (as in most old Mexican homes).
brandelynmarie Posted October 2, 2011 Author Posted October 2, 2011 I am most familiar with the tin ones. Who is St. Pascal Baillon & why is he in the kitchen?
Feankie Posted October 2, 2011 Posted October 2, 2011 First off, my spelling was off.... always in a hurry! St. Pascual Bailon is usually pictured kneeling (or sometimes levitating) in the kitchen. A stove with a boiling pot of food is also pictured in back of him or at the side. There is always an angel floating above him holding a monstrance. He was a poor shepherd boy when he entered the Friars Minor. He was assigned to copious kitchen duties and none of the other friars could understand how he got his kitchen duties done as he was always in front of the Blessed Sacrament. He is the patron saint of cooks, shepherds, and several eucharistic confraternities. We have about 30 retablos that are painted on copper, but the rest are on tin. Copper was generally used in the 18th century and then became too expensive for ordinary people. They turned to tin which was much less expensive and easier to obtain. Most of our pieces are either 10X14 or 7X10.inches The largest one on tin we have is 14x20 while the smallest is 2 1/2 x 3 1/2 inches.
Nunsense Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 Wow - fascinating picture of a time in history. No, not Carmelite. Habit is white, mantle is blue-grey, wimple is on the outside of the habit.
Chiquitunga Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1317418166' post='2313017'] I'm beginning to think that the flowers & shields & crowns were to show...that the Final Profession was connected to what is divine & heavenly. When I see them, I think of Heaven. [/quote] They remind me of Heaven too, brides of Christ in their glory! [quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1317426557' post='2313117'] No, Monjas Coronadas is simply the spanish translation of the English, crowned nuns. Many of the Mexican orders (and I'm sure others in South American and Spain) used this practice in colonial times.[/quote] Okay, thanks! I knew it meant crowned nuns, but I was wondering for a second if this was an actual order! [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1317437510' post='2313205'] Even when I see profession wreaths, I think of these things. [img]http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_l6vg19BJr31qd4kcco1_500.jpg[/img] [/quote] Love this!! [quote name='HopefulBride' timestamp='1317430830' post='2313152'] So these sisters are carmelites? I am so confused [/quote] The nuns in the clip from the documentary are Conceptionists, like this one .. [img]http://www.cesarvulcanouk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/houseofguadalupe/monjas%20coronadas/monja2.jpg[/img] But here are some crowned Carmelites for you [img]http://www.cesarvulcanouk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/houseofguadalupe/monjas%20coronadas/monjacoronadatittle.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.cesarvulcanouk.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/houseofguadalupe/monjas%20coronadas/monja4.jpg[/img] [img]http://letraslibres.com/sites/default/files/imagenes_articulos/img_art_10461_2891.jpg[/img]
brandelynmarie Posted October 3, 2011 Author Posted October 3, 2011 There ya go! Carmelites! I was wondering if one I had posted esrlier was a Dominican. I'm loving this . And I must remember St. Pascual! I need all the help I can get .
Chiquitunga Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1317621189' post='2314434'] There ya go! Carmelites! I was wondering if one I had posted esrlier was a Dominican. I'm loving this . And I must remember St. Pascual! I need all the help I can get . [/quote] And I happened upon [url="http://www.flickr.com/photos/xquendamario/4913731051/in/set-72157625647138621"]another crowned Carmelite[/url] today too, searching for something else actually. This one is from the Monastery of St. Teresa of Jesus in Guadalajara, which is the one that founded Cristo Rey in San Francisco (a little mention of it on their page [url="http://www.federacion-ocd-mx.org/?p=2352"]here[/url]) which founded Valparaiso and so forth. Small world But just to say again (sorry if I'm being redundant!) .. the nuns in the documentary clip (that look a bit like Dominicans) are Conceptionist Nuns, founded by St. Beatriz da Silva. [img]http://www.marypages.com/santa-beatriz-da-silva.jpg[/img] To my knowledge off the top of my head (too lazy to even Google!) they are only in Spain and Latin American countries. I wrote their monastery in Agreda once and they sent me a bunch of 3rd class relics of Venerable Maria of Agreda
sistersintigo Posted October 3, 2011 Posted October 3, 2011 [quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1317664877' post='2314684'] But just to say again (sorry if I'm being redundant!) .. the nuns in the documentary clip (that look a bit like Dominicans) are Conceptionist Nuns, founded by St. Beatriz da Silva. [img]http://www.marypages.com/santa-beatriz-da-silva.jpg[/img] To my knowledge off the top of my head (too lazy to even Google!) they are only in Spain and Latin American countries. I wrote their monastery in Agreda once and they sent me a bunch of 3rd class relics of Venerable Maria of Agreda [/quote] Actually the Conceptionist Nuns deserve a thread all their own, I think, as they have been around for something like five hundred years; they still exist; and their founder has been canonized (by Pope Paul VI). One reason they haven't got a thread of their own at Phatmass, is that they are not to be found in English speaking countries. If I read the historical summaries right: they originated in Europe, and for a few hundred years they had a European presence, even in Belgium. Today I think that there are none left in Belgium. They are still strong in Spain and Portugal. Maybe some in Italy. Brazil and Mexico, definitely. Their founder was royalty, and she sort of took refuge in a monastery of cloistered Dominican nuns. When they were first founded, the Conceptionists used a Benedictine/Cistercian rule. Then when the Church agreed to make their congregation official, they were assigned to the Franciscans, and regarded as a version of the Poor Clares -- but they were allowed to keep their distinctive Conceptionist habit, the habit that is the basis of all these portraits of Monjas Coronadas (crowned nuns).
brandelynmarie Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Wow, a little bit of everything on their heritage! And to [b]REALLY[/b] mix things up, I found a retablo[b] of [/b]monjas coronadas! (Can you tell I'm on vacation?) [img]http://www.mexicania.com.mx/cats/images/DSC08757.jpg[/img]
Feankie Posted October 4, 2011 Posted October 4, 2011 Where did you find it? Boy oh boy, would I love to have that one hanging on my wall
brandelynmarie Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Ummmmmmm....it was on an antique website.....I was on-line with no sleep! Let me see if I can track it down, .
brandelynmarie Posted October 4, 2011 Author Posted October 4, 2011 Found it! I do pretty good Scooby work. [url="http://www.mexicania.com.mx/cats/pag2.php"]http://www.mexicania.com.mx/cats/pag2.php[/url]
Feankie Posted October 5, 2011 Posted October 5, 2011 Thanks for the info!!! Went to their website and sent a message in Spanish. We go to Tonala' from time to time, so perhaps I'll get an answer as to if it's still available or if I'd have to cut my right arm off to purchase it
brandelynmarie Posted October 5, 2011 Author Posted October 5, 2011 Oh how wonderful! I am so glad I could help you! Please let me know if you end up getting it.
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