College

[TeresaBenedicta]

If you're seriously discerning... don't go into debt. It isn't worth it. Trust me.

[Emma]

I think a person should wait until after college (or work experience). When I was 17 or 18, no way I was mature enough to make decisions about my whole life. I think you have to strike a balance - mature enough to understand what you are doing but not too set in your ways that you can't accommodate to the requirements and sacrifices of religious life (e.g. personal freedom, obedience, etc). I didn't really start discerning until I was a senior in college. If you've accummulated alot of debt, paying it off will take quite a bit of time so you must be resigned to delaying entrance. If you are a senior in HS and really thinking about religious life, I agree with other posters - DON'T take out too many loans. It can be very discouraging to face paying back hundreds of thousands of dollars when you yearn to be a sister. I was lucky - I picked a reasonably priced college and my parents had saved the money so I didn't have loans. My advice to any discerning HS student would be get your college degree - maybe start off in a more reasonably priced community college or a state school. Get some life experience - find yourself and be as sure as you can be that religious life is really and truly right for you. If it's not, then you already have an education and won't feel like you have to stay because there's no alternative.

[FutureSister2009]

We all know what I'm going to say. NO COLLEGE!!! If the Carmelites are saying don't do it, don't do it. If they want you now, that means God probably does too. Don't make the same mistake I did.

[the171]

For those who go to college: what classes? public or private? technical, university, etc? college experience thus far? debt?
Those who do not: did you have alot of pressure? did you do the one year deal? etc., etc.?

[faithcecelia]

One thing I have been wondering, please bear with me.

Their most recently clothed novice is very young looking - 17/18? You are very, very young. What age are the other novices, postulants, aspirants etc? Then how many in the community are aged, say 28-45? I ask this because sometimes I look at websites and they seem keen to take very,very young postulants, and seem to always have very young noviciates, but few young professed sisters, which suggests alot leaving before solemn profession. If this seems to be the case with your community, then I would seriously consider waiting a few years.

But again, as you will be under 18 you need to listen to your parent's advice and come to decisions that they are happy with too.

[Nunsense]

I know the general opinion is to wait and get a little life experience but sometimes I'm not so sure that is the best advice - but of course it's all personal and depends on the individual.

My daughter left home at 18 because she really wanted to get out on her own. She hated authority and rules, especially mine! But guess what she did instead of staying home and going to college? She entered the army! This was the girl who hated being told what to do, to clean up her room, be home on time, etc.

She has been in the army now for five years and intends to re-up for a third time. She tells me that she wants to make it her career. First she was trained as a cook, and now they are going to train her to be a nurse. She loves the structure, the friendships and feeling of family, the security... so much about it. I'm sure she had a tough time in the beginning with the basic training (she had to carry her rifle everywhere, including to the toilet!) and learning to obey was probably hard too, but she is thriving in that environment and is very happy.

I just think that you have to make this choice based on who you are and what you want. If you enter now and don't stay, at least you tried it. But if you accumulate alot of debt and can't enter for a long time, you may never get around to trying it. I could be wrong about this, but I don't necessarily think that age is the real issue here. Maybe in some ways, not having life experience also means being more open to the structure, authority and discipline of a convent?

Anyway, as you can see, there are conflicting thoughts about this even here, so don't rely on us to give you the answer

[Lisa]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1318374900' post='2319854']
For those who go to college: what classes? public or private? technical, university, etc? college experience thus far? debt?
Those who do not: did you have alot of pressure? did you do the one year deal? etc., etc.?
[/quote]

Like everyone else says, you'll want to consider internals (your own maturity, spiritual life, etc.) balanced with externals (what you parents/superior/spiritual director say). You have time to think and make some of these decisions in a couple of years, and believe me, a couple of years can make a huge difference.

I am a senior in college and have loved it. Yes, I have major senioritis and wish I could be with the Sisters now, but I know God's using me where I'm at. Some of your decision making, with discernment in mind, may depend on your financial situation. I go to a public university, so it's considerably cheaper, which is important to me since I'm paying my own way through college.

See the debt thread. The reality is- no matter where you go, if your parents aren't paying- it's expensive. You can keep that in mind and present that to your parents. But if you do decide to go, it is possible to graduate debt-free. Work your rear end off for good grades, apply for every scholarship known to man. Work during the summers- even when you are in high school- and possibly during the school year if you can.

Since you are seriously discerning a cloistered community, "professional skills" aren't probably quite as necessary. I just spent the past 4 years of my life getting a degree in Agriculture Communication...to put it mildly, it's of fairly limited use within a teaching order. But going to college can give you enough "life skills" to be truly helpful. You might not understand economizing in community until you've been completely broke and making your pasta last as long as possible. It is likely to help with separation from your family.

No matter where you go to college, you can practice these things with the outlook of discernment. The options with campus ministry- even, actually I would say especially, at a public university- are tremendous. Not to say Catholic colleges aren't great; they are just different. I probably should start a separate thread on this so as to not hijack, but don't fall into the trap that you can't grow in your faith at a state school... especially if you are concerned about finances.

Finances shouldn't determine your entrance or delay, but they can play a small role. You'll have the answer, just give it time. Spiritual direction will help tremendously; he/she might be able to help you make the decision whether you are ready. I admire you so greatly for knowing what God's calling you to so early in life.

Edited October 12, 2011 by Lisa

[the171]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1318377204' post='2319882']
One thing I have been wondering, please bear with me.

Their most recently clothed novice is very young looking - 17/18? You are very, very young. What age are the other novices, postulants, aspirants etc? Then how many in the community are aged, say 28-45? I ask this because sometimes I look at websites and they seem keen to take very,very young postulants, and seem to always have very young noviciates, but few young professed sisters, which suggests alot leaving before solemn profession. If this seems to be the case with your community, then I would seriously consider waiting a few years.

But again, as you will be under 18 you need to listen to your parent's advice and come to decisions that they are happy with too.
[/quote]

Well, they haven't had many vocations in a long time because Louisiana was really hit hard by the vocation's crisis (female religious-wise). At least that's what I've noticed, because alot of the recent vocations are out-of-state. That's changing though. (Lafayette's novitiate is mostly Louisiana) The two that just took their final vows came here (already in their first vows, I believe) from Vietnam so they weren't formed here. All the postulants and novices are in their late teens to early twenties. (2 postulants {19-25} and 1 novice {19-22}. Not very sure about ages.) The two aspirants are me and another girl named Chloe (later vocation {late 20s-early 30s}) Their novitiate is really just taking off, but they are very picky with who they begin serious discernment with. Sr.Mary John tells you here opinion as soon as she develops it. hahah But those are the only ones in the community I know because they keep very closed doors.
[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1318378174' post='2319900']
I know the general opinion is to wait and get a little life experience but sometimes I'm not so sure that is the best advice - but of course it's all personal and depends on the individual.

My daughter left home at 18 because she really wanted to get out on her own. She hated authority and rules, especially mine! But guess what she did instead of staying home and going to college? She entered the army! This was the girl who hated being told what to do, to clean up her room, be home on time, etc.

She has been in the army now for five years and intends to re-up for a third time. She tells me that she wants to make it her career. First she was trained as a cook, and now they are going to train her to be a nurse. She loves the structure, the friendships and feeling of family, the security... so much about it. I'm sure she had a tough time in the beginning with the basic training (she had to carry her rifle everywhere, including to the toilet!) and learning to obey was probably hard too, but she is thriving in that environment and is very happy.

I just think that you have to make this choice based on who you are and what you want. If you enter now and don't stay, at least you tried it. But if you accumulate alot of debt and can't enter for a long time, you may never get around to trying it. I could be wrong about this, but I don't necessarily think that age is the real issue here. Maybe in some ways, not having life experience also means being more open to the structure, authority and discipline of a convent?

Anyway, as you can see, there are conflicting thoughts about this even here, so don't rely on us to give you the answer
[/quote]

If I could tote you around to answer the concerns that are brought up to my attention, I would be so much better off. hahaha

[LaPetiteSoeur]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1318374900' post='2319854']
For those who go to college: what classes? public or private? technical, university, etc? college experience thus far? debt?
Those who do not: did you have alot of pressure? did you do the one year deal? etc., etc.?
[/quote]

Public. Your state has an EXCELLENT scholarship program. It's really, really phenominal. There is much "free" aid (as in no loans) available in Louisiana for students. Classes....well, for you, there are tons of options. There are some really wonderful religious studies programs that are well done.

I happen to love college. I love the Catholic center, my classes, the programs I'm in...it's really wonderful. I've been incredibly blessed to have a 2/3 scholarship, a workstudy, and a grandmother who can pay the little that's left. When I leave I will have no debt. I know that few have no debt accruing. And I'm also entering (or hoping to enter) an active/contemplative order that does teach, so I'd have to go to university anyway!

Pray about it. I'm praying for you!

[the171]

[quote name='LaPetiteSoeur' timestamp='1318383220' post='2319937']

Public. Your state has an EXCELLENT scholarship program. It's really, really phenominal. There is much "free" aid (as in no loans) available in Louisiana for students. Classes....well, for you, there are tons of options. There are some really wonderful religious studies programs that are well done.

I happen to love college. I love the Catholic center, my classes, the programs I'm in...it's really wonderful. I've been incredibly blessed to have a 2/3 scholarship, a workstudy, and a grandmother who can pay the little that's left. When I leave I will have no debt. I know that few have no debt accruing. And I'm also entering (or hoping to enter) an active/contemplative order that does teach, so I'd have to go to university anyway!

Pray about it. I'm praying for you!
[/quote]

I will and thank you. I'm doing the same for you.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1318377204' post='2319882']

But again, as you will be under 18 you need to listen to your parent's advice and come to decisions that they are happy with too.
[/quote]

Of course, while she is still in high school she must listen to her parents. And even after, it would be good to have them supporting her decision, but I am assuming that after high school, she will be 18 and able to make her own decision, and parents are not always happy with the decisions their kids make. I know that I did not want my daughter to leave home at 18 because I believed she should go to college first too. But I am so proud of her now and so glad to see that she is happy.

[FutureSister2009]

If you do end up going, I recommend a good Catholic College. Try to be a Theology major like me. I don't see what the point is of going to college if you're going to be in a cloister though. But what I would rather be doing is traveling right now. The stress of school is getting to me so I'm not in the best mood at the present time

[Emma]

My concern, Allyson, is that what happens if the cloister isn't for you? What happens if you stay 5 years and then leave? I think it's better to just wait the few years, finish your education, grow up, get life experience and then enter the cloister. I know you shouldn't enter thinking you will ever leave, but we have all learned from other posters that this often happens - sometimes more than once. It's only a few years - who knows - maybe you will cultivate some talents in school that would be useful in the monastery.

Em

[Lisa]

I didn't add that up there, but I just wanted to restate that only you can make that decision... we can definitely offer our opinions on here, but they are just our opinions.

What we can offer though, is prayers and solidarity. As you can see, you've got people on all sides- No college, catholic college, public college. But know that I am praying that above all, these next few years be a time to focus on your relationship with Him! Then, he will lead you exactly where you need to be!

Vocation station is amesome, isn't it??? Where else would you find so many people discerning?

[tinytherese]

Also, the solid Catholic colleges in the U.S. tend to be expensive. Steubenville only gives loans. Make sure that you do your homework as far as tuition costs, financial aid, working during the summers, work study jobs, and how much your parents can afford.

You said that you'll be 17 when you graduate. How long after you graduate will you be 18 because at that age you can go without the consent of your parents if you decide that entering the convent instead of college is what God is calling you to do? It seems like in our society everyone says to go to college right after high school but it isn't for everyone. You can become mature in the convent or if you want to do something like NET ministries or work right after high school until you're 18.

Edited October 12, 2011 by tinytherese

[TeresaBenedicta]

You know... in the case of the maturity argument... I honestly think a young person matures [i]better[/i] in the convent than in college! College really doesn't give you much in the way of real world experience. Not to say college is bad- just that's a whole different experience in of itself which is nothing like the real world.

When in college, you can choose whether or not you're going to be responsible. You can make bad decisions. You can live off of top ramen.

In the convent, you are taught to be a well-rounded woman. You are given responsibilities. You learn a heck of alot about how to clean and cook and take care of things.

Hm. Yeah, I think the convent usualy tends to help young people mature more quickly than does a college campus. But that's just my experience, having seen both (with barely 18 year olds in the convent now). The key, I think, is in the formators. If they know how to interact with people of different ages, then they can best do their job for the good of the young person entering.

[FutureSister2009]

Yes everyone says I need to mature more before I enter but I enjoy what TB just said!

[beatitude]

I agree with most of what you write, Teresa Benedicta, but I would point out that there is more to maturity than learning how to clean and cook and take care of practical things. There is emotional maturity as well, and people definitely need a certain measure of this before they enter religious life. College can be a good way of deepening this, as you are placed with a diverse group of personalities (some of whom won't be to your natural tastes at all!). You also have the opportunity to teach yourself to persevere with things that you find difficult or simply don't like very much. Of course, it's possible to choose to cut class or to complain all the time about this roommate and that homework. College won't force you to mature. But nothing can force maturity, not even a convent. It has to be a conscious choice.

[Pax_et bonum]

[quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1318459955' post='2320328']
College can be a good way of deepening this, as you are placed with a diverse group of personalities (some of whom won't be to your natural tastes at all!). You also have the opportunity to teach yourself to persevere with things that you find difficult or simply don't like very much. Of course, it's possible to choose to cut class or to complain all the time about this roommate and that homework. College won't force you to mature. But nothing can force maturity, not even a convent. It has to be a conscious choice.
[/quote]
I'm not trying to be contrary, but imho it seems that this applies to entering a convent as well.
The convent can be a good way of deepening this, as you are placed with a diverse group of personalities (some of whom won't be to your natural tastes at all!). You also have the opportunity to teach yourself to persevere with things that you find difficult or simply don't like very much. Of course, it's possible to choose to cut prayer or to complain all the time about this sister and that duty. The convent won't force you to mature. But nothing can force maturity, not even college. It has to be a conscious choice.
So it could go either way, it depends on the person. God knows which is best for each of us, and He'll lead us there. I second NET. I have a peer who's doing it this year, and if it becomes clear I won't be entering next year, I want to apply.

[Nunsense]

As we see, there are as many opinions as there are people to give them, and all of them have validity. In the end it comes down to the individual and their own situation, and no decision is guaranteed to be free from errors, so we do just have to take each step according to our own (well formed) conscience and then leave the rest up to God in His infinite mercy.

Prayers for your discernment - whatever your final choice.