Charismatic Movement

[i<3franciscans]

What do you guys and galls think of the Charismatic Renewal? Almost everyone I know finds it nutty and I want some outside opinions/insights. Since the last few popes approved of the movement, I don't think that it is wrong, but I believe you have to be careful about it.

I am quite undecided... as I said, I see nothing wrong with it, but I have no support and not alot of info on it.

So, what do y'all think?

[BG45]

In before the move to Debate Table.

I'm undecided on it; I've been to some Charismatic Nights of Worship and Festivals of Praise. They were definitely different than Protestant "charismatic" things I had been to in undergrad. Things were more reverent, the tongues more subdued, no one flopping around like they were having a seizure.

I've been prayed over by some Franciscan friars at one such event, and a more than decade long hatred and loathing of my father was removed. But whether that was due to it being a Charismatic event, or something else is up to interpretation. Both charismatics and non-charismatics, if they're being loyal to the teachings of the Church, would say that it was God's work.

[Amppax]

KILL THIS THREAD ASAP! sorry, but if you want information about the Charismatic Movement, this really isn't the place, and this debate (and it will become a debate) has happened far too many times here. This thread will slowly devolve in a argument where feelings will get hurt, little will be learned, and ultimately, the thread will be closed. Why don't we just skip to the last step now?

That being said, I've attended a number of Charismatic Events and I attend a school that many would label as Charismatic (Franciscan University). So I would say that, while I definitely don't identify myself as Charismatic, I am fairly sympathetic to the movement. I would say that alot of good has come out of it, but like many things, it can lead people away from what they should focus on. I know many people that actively seek the Charismatic gifts, and I think this leads them away from focusing on what is truly important. However, I think that this is not the fault of the Charismatic movement, rather, it is the fault of individual people.

I'll try and find like to some old threads about this, with much more information than I have.

[Amppax]

here is the last thread on the topic

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114662-charismatic-catholics-theology-debate/"]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114662-charismatic-catholics-theology-debate/[/url]

[Brother Adam]

I wrote this, since it comes up here all the time: [url="http://catecheticsonline.com/?p=544"]http://catecheticsonline.com/?p=544[/url]

Charismatic Catholics are not nutty. They are open to having a deep and thriving relationship with the Holy Spirit. It is no more nutty than the spirituality of the mystics and great saints of the Church. There may be nutty things that happen out there, but generalizing the renewal as nutty is inappropriate. The charismatic parish in our diocese has more vocations to the priesthood than all of our other parishes combined. They are also the most committed, devoted, and con servative Catholics in our diocese, on equal footing with our extraordinary form parish.

[Nunsense]

I went once and it wasn't my type of spirituality but that's just me personally. Father Cantalamessa is charismatic... I respect him.

[regina_coeli]

Just like learning styles in school, just like charisms for religious orders, one size doesn't fit all!

[LaPetiteSoeur]

We all have different ways of relating to God. I was never really exposed to the Charismatic movement, but some people I know really relate to God in that way. It works for them. My prayer life and spiritual life work for me!

[OnlySunshine]

While I appreciate the fact that it works for some people and they prefer that kind of worship, I don't particularly find it attractive. I like the more traditional style worship -- the kind I was raised with. My parish suits me 100%. I used to think ill of the Charismatic Renewal, but I don't anymore, especially since reading that Bl. John Paul II spoke highly of it.

[brandelynmarie]

I went to FUS for one year in the '90's. (I had decided to go there, before I became Catholic in a private ceremony that previous July, very long story!) So I had never heard of the Charismatic Renewal & had no clue what was going on. Example, during the Great Amen of the first mass I went to I heard the most beautiful singing. I later asked a friend of mine what page that hymn was on in the missalette. She laughed & said, "Oh! That wasn't a hymn! We were singing in tongues!" Wow...okaaaay. Later that Fall I did receive Baptism in the Spirit. I did experience healing & I witnessed the growth of many spiritual fruits. But as in anything, some people went from one extreme to another as it is very easy to be caught up in the emotionalism of it all. I believe one must be very grounded in the Faith in order to best appreciate the Charimatic Renewal. Nowadays, if I happen upon a Charimatic mass or prayer group, I have no problem joining in, but it is not something I am involved in on a regular basis.

Edited October 17, 2011 by brandelynmarie

[Basilisa Marie]

Generally it's not my thing, but I'll go to a charismatic praise and worship style gathering every once in a while (Franciscan FOP anyone?). I was first introduced to it by a good friend whose whole family was pretty into it, and a bunch of her friends from a local parish run by Dominicans were into it too. Wonderfully devoted Catholics; my friend is now a Poor Claire in Los Altos, CA.

[Vincent Vega]

Not this shard again.

[Papist]

-1

[fides quarens intellectum]

By all means, read up on the other threads, but i did want to comment on something - the community pictured in your avatar considers itself to be a fruit of the charismatic movement. They are not as directly involved anymore as they were when they began, but they credit the movement for helping them in the beginning.

That's all. Happy reading!

[i<3franciscans]

Thank you all for responding!! I was going to put this on the Debate Table, but I didn't want a debate and I didn't want anyone to be offended. I just was curious of your opinions. I am going to read up more on it like some of you suggested. I am quite indebted to the charismatic movement for my vocation really, but that is a really long story for another time. I am trying to get up the courage to tell my parents everything, but like I said they find it really wierd so I was in need of some affirmation that I was not insane for thinking it was alright. Thank you so so much! Please keep me in your prayers!!!

Peace,
fran

[Ad Majorem Dei Gloriam]

[quote name='Amppax' timestamp='1318803911' post='2322271']
KILL THIS THREAD ASAP! sorry, but if you want information about the Charismatic Movement, this really isn't the place, and this debate (and it will become a debate).
[/quote]

I disagree. It would be a shame to kill this thread. Why can't one discuss personal opinions of a movement and personal experiences of a movement when the original poster wants to know of the personal opinions and experiences?

That being said, the Charismatic movement was one of the driving factors in my living my Catholic faith. My high school taught the faith and the catechism well and very rigorously but my local youth group was abysmal. There was a local Catholic Charismatic group that was around (and being a young teenager, knowing girls would be there didn't hurt). It provided an emotional force that helped drive my intellectual formation deeper. The movement, as I experienced it was very orthodox in its theology and was very loyal to the local hierarchy and to the Magisterium in general. I am very grateful to the movement for all of these thigns; however, there were some practices that seemed common that I look back on with a question.

There was this thing though called "Baptism in the Spirit." Looking back on this and other things though I wonder about the relationship of the Sacraments and such "spiritual experiences" like "Baptism in the Spirit" that were presented as necessary in one's faith as being open to the Spirit? I am not saying that being open to the will of God is a bad thing but what is it in the Sacraments like Baptism that is lacking and one needs a formal "declaration of inviting the Spirit into one's life." Doesn't one do this every time one goes to Mass and receives the Eucharist or goes to Confession or accepts God into one's life through Baptism and Confirmation? This declaration of "invitation" or being moved into God's life happens in every Sacrament. Yet, these things were often presented to me as necessary, constantly trying to see where the Spirit was leading me.

There were many good things like taking a more active role in trying to remain in right relationship with God; however, trying to understand God's will was often accompanied for many by emotional/spiritual experiences and "praying in tongues." I did not have any of these experiences. Occasionally I had some consolations of things that were bothering me but I did not "receive these gifts" that others received that were normally expressed along side of overflowing emotion. Personally, I have always described myself as one who was religious but had trouble being spiritual. As such, the embodiedness of the graces in the Sacraments are tremendously beneficial to me. I need something that witnesses/ministers to my body, mind, and soul. So when I am struggling with doubts, shame, pain, or any number of other things in life I can recall the words of absolution, or the words of institution, or visit Christ in the Eucharist in Adoration and me united to and in God's presence in the Mass, Confessional, or Adoration Chapel (all in different ways of course). This is ultimately the biggest thing in that the Charismatic meetings were beneficial but I was looking for something more than just God's will in my life. I wanted His presence and I needed more than just an emotional experience. I needed something fleshy, something embodied and not simply personal but communal too. If my emotions did arise in prayer, which for me was a rather rare thing and made me feel a little excluded in Charismatic circles, they were always to my presenting my struggles and joys to Christ in the Sacraments, whether that be with the rest of my community at Mass or in the silence of an adoration chapel.

I hope I have been clear, some of these things are still being worked through in my head.

[BG45]

[quote name='i<3franciscans' timestamp='1318868954' post='2322704']
Thank you all for responding!! I was going to put this on the Debate Table, but I didn't want a debate and I didn't want anyone to be offended. I just was curious of your opinions. I am going to read up more on it like some of you suggested. I am quite indebted to the charismatic movement for my vocation really, but that is a really long story for another time. I am trying to get up the courage to tell my parents everything, but like I said they find it really wierd so I was in need of some affirmation that I was not insane for thinking it was alright. Thank you so so much! Please keep me in your prayers!!!

Peace,
fran
[/quote]

Prayers!! And a lot of people may find it weird, but it doesn't make it any less valid an experience for you. How God chooses to act in our lives is His decision.

[Brother Adam]

It is good to remember too that the charismatic renewal is a renewal. It is not a new/novel idea.

"They are not drunk in the way you might thing. They are indeed drunk, but with the sober intoxication (nephalios methe) which kills sin and gives life to the heart and which is the opposite of physical drunkenness...They are drunk insofar as they have drunk the wine of that mystical vine which affirms, "I am the vine, you are the branches (John 15:5)"." (Cyril, 348 AD)

"Laeti bibamus sobriam profusionem Spiritus" - St. Ambrose as quoted by Pope Paul VI to the World Congress of the CCR.

[Amppax]

That went much better than expected, sorry, I'm just a little cynical when this topic (and several others) come up around here. It just tends to be a polarizing issue, sorry for my attitude.

[BG45]

Ditto on my initial attitude, this is perhaps the only thread on the topic in recent memory that has not devolved into bitterness. It's a refreshing surprise, and hopefully due in part to it being linked to your vocation!