Charismatic Movement

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

p.s. i have to go for 5 minutes we could continue this in the chat room than if you would like. god bless you

[dominicansoul]

OH.. cmaria!!! i was shawked... i was like, "why does cmaria want to take this to the debate table!!???" so unlike you!!! but i read the whole thread and now i get it

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1319501188' post='2326553']

what for?
[/quote]

never mind

Edited October 25, 2011 by cmariadiaz

[the171]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1319501857' post='2326578']
OH.. cmaria!!! i was shawked... i was like, "why does cmaria want to take this to the debate table!!???" so unlike you!!! but i read the whole thread and now i get it
[/quote]

Another Charismatic thread, amazingly it hans;t gone out of control yet.

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1319501928' post='2326579']

never mind
[/quote]

Spanish mass? I couldn't do that. haha

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1319501857' post='2326578']
OH.. cmaria!!! i was shawked... i was like, "why does cmaria want to take this to the debate table!!???" so unlike you!!! but i read the whole thread and now i get it
[/quote]

Ya got it, ya got it!

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1319501829' post='2326577']
p.s. i have to go for 5 minutes we could continue this in the chat room than if you would like. god bless you
[/quote]

YES ... continue it in chat . Or debate table. This was such a good, non-debating thread. This thread is a "we agree to disagree" thread .

Ok ... that's my last "put it in debate table post". I promise.

[the171]

haha it;s underwear on a stick.

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1319502277' post='2326593']
haha it;s underwear on a stick.
[/quote]
OMGosh it is, it is!

[the171]

I did that when I was a little kid, but I hit my older brother with it.

[sixpence]

in my uninformed opinion... emotion/feelings that result from prayer are not something to scoff at. As long as a person keeps in mind that these are temporary gifts and that they are not the "goal" in prayer then they are alright and should gladly accept these gifts from God! If other fruits are forthcoming, I would not doubt the work of the Spirit on an open heart.

disclaimer-- I have never been to one of these "charismatic" things

[Nunsense]

the171 - As we have seen recently by the firing of an Australian Bishop in Queensland - not all Australian Bishops behave themselves! I agree that the it does sound as if abuses are occurring.

From what I've read of the recent ad limina meeting between Australian Bishops and the Holy Father though, they are trying to be more responsive to Rome and have supported the Pope's decision to fire that Bishop, but I am sure there are still a lot of abuses that happen. I recently read that one Bishop has denied his diocese the Latin Mass on Sundays. He has agreed to allow some weekday Latin Masses, but not on Sundays! There is still a lot of work to be done here in Australia to unite the traditional with the liberal sides of Catholicism here. I have seen many liturgical abuses ever since I got back to Australia, but there are also some wonderful priests, so I just keep praying for the Church here (and everywhere). I don't think the concept of 'say the black, do the red' is really followed here very much!

Don't forget that Australia was founded as a penal colony and the general attitude of many people is that 'rules are meant to be broken'. The heroes here are bushrangers like Ned Kelly, sporting heroes and horses!

[Nunsense]

By the way, I am not debating this... at least I hope I am not. I respect the Charismatic movement, I just worry about liturgical abuses too. I think that Praise and Worship is the appropriate place for many charismatic events, rather than the Mass...

[the171]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319504019' post='2326617']
By the way, I am not debating this... at least I hope I am not. I respect the Charismatic movement, I just worry about liturgical abuses too. I think that Praise and Worship is the appropriate place for many charismatic events, rather than the Mass...
[/quote]

The preferred is chant. Plain and simple. Also, it's the same here. You should go to mass at my parish... I go to the Cathedral's EFM. Thankfully our bishop is a strong supporter, my pastor, not so much. He won't let me confirm in the EFM. haah at that time they were taught to hate the EFM.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1319505038' post='2326628']

You should go to mass at my parish... I go to the Cathedral's EFM. Thankfully our bishop is a strong supporter, my pastor, not so much. He won't let me confirm in the EFM. haah at that time they were taught to hate the EFM.
[/quote]

I'm afraid that's a little difficult since I live in rural Victoria, in Australia. We have one priest for four parishes. The nearest Cathedral to me is one and half hours in either direction - one in Bendigo (no Bishop appointed since the death of the last one nearly a year ago) or one in Ballarat (nice Bishop there - he celebrated Mass for us when our priest went on holidays - came out to a parish with less than 20 people in attendance!).

I love our priest. He is too liberal for my tastes, but he has a heart of gold and is kindness itself. And since love covers a multitude of sins, I have no complaints about him.

My comments were about the state of the Church in Australia generally, which one priest told me is basically 'in schism' although that isn't officially recognised. The EF and the NO aren't generally tolerant of each other, but the Archbishop in Melbourne is very good and supports and recognises an EF parish in Melbourne, where only the EF is used. Not all Archbishops are so inclined.

But there is also a strong charismatic presence in Melbourne as well (not out here in the bush) and I know the Archbishop supports that as well. So I think that things may improve in relations over time between the different forms of worship.

[the171]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319510382' post='2326682']

I'm afraid that's a little difficult since I live in rural Victoria, in Australia. We have one priest for four parishes. The nearest Cathedral to me is one and half hours in either direction - one in Bendigo (no Bishop appointed since the death of the last one nearly a year ago) or one in Ballarat (nice Bishop there - he celebrated Mass for us when our priest went on holidays - came out to a parish with less than 20 people in attendance!).

I love our priest. He is too liberal for my tastes, but he has a heart of gold and is kindness itself. And since love covers a multitude of sins, I have no complaints about him.

My comments were about the state of the Church in Australia generally, which one priest told me is basically 'in schism' although that isn't officially recognised. The EF and the NO aren't generally tolerant of each other, but the Archbishop in Melbourne is very good and supports and recognises an EF parish in Melbourne, where only the EF is used. Not all Archbishops are so inclined.

But there is also a strong charismatic presence in Melbourne as well (not out here in the bush) and I know the Archbishop supports that as well. So I think that things may improve in relations over time between the different forms of worship.
[/quote]


I meant that first sentence sarcastically. haha IT STINKS, but it's still the mass and I attend (when I must) with sue reverence. Maybe he should just rule over all of Australia. hah jk

[TeresaBenedicta]

(Purely personal opinion!)

I think that the charismatic renewal can very much be an instrument of grace leading individuals into a deeper relationship with God- teaching one how to pray and providing an authentic and powerful experience of God. I also, think, however, that there is perhaps more danger in this particular instrument of grace to cling to the instrument when it's time to let go and let God. This is a natural tendency in the spiritual life in general- to cling to or to value the "experience" of God more so than God Himself. And it would seem to me that, given the nature of the charismatic renewal, that tendency or temptation might be slightly stronger, especially without a strong spiritual director to help guide the individual.

[dominicansoul]

[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1319556768' post='2326851']
(Purely personal opinion!)

I think that the charismatic renewal can very much be an instrument of grace leading individuals into a deeper relationship with God- teaching one how to pray and providing an authentic and powerful experience of God. I also, think, however, that there is perhaps more danger in this particular instrument of grace to cling to the instrument when it's time to let go and let God. This is a natural tendency in the spiritual life in general- to cling to or to value the "experience" of God more so than God Himself. And it would seem to me that, given the nature of the charismatic renewal, that tendency or temptation might be slightly stronger, especially without a strong spiritual director to help guide the individual.
[/quote]


I wholly agree that the charismatic movement is part of God's plan within the Church, to go forward with a deeper sense of His Presence and His Gifts. There is nothing against being Charismatic and Catholic. I think we would benefit greatly if all of us had a charismatic soul. But...without a devoted and orthodox spiritual director, doors are open to all sorts of unorthodox practices and looney-bins stuff...

I have a group of friends I hang out with from time to time, we study Scripture together, have dinner once in a while, travel to prayer meetings, etc. They are from various charismatic groups in our area. Some have a grasp of the authentic charismatic spirituality, others tend to boasts of their gifts and prophesy without any direction. As with all things in the Church (not just for charismatics,) all must be guided with orthodoxy and obedience to the Church...

[i<3franciscans]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1319557905' post='2326859']


I wholly agree that the charismatic movement is part of God's plan within the Church, to go forward with a deeper sense of His Presence and His Gifts. There is nothing against being Charismatic and Catholic. I think we would benefit greatly if all of us had a charismatic soul. But...without a devoted and orthodox spiritual director, doors are open to all sorts of unorthodox practices and looney-bins stuff...

[/quote]
I totally agree with this. There is nothing wrong with being charismatic, but some people take it too far and that is where the movement gets its bad name. There are bad/boastful uncharismatic Catholics too... We have to be careful to avoid rash judgment on all Catholics...

[Noel's angel]

[quote name='i<3franciscans' timestamp='1319456918' post='2326190']
This was just wonderful! I had to give it props.

Noel, like I said, everyone has their own opinions, but please don't turn this into a debate. If you would like a debate go to the Debate Table. I don't want anyone to be hurt so please be mindful of other peoples backgrounds whether you like with them or not. We all have to respect each other. Thanks!
[/quote]


I wasn't starting a debate. I was offering my opinion based on my experiences. If you don't like that, it's not my fault. I was simply saying why a lot of people do have a problem with charismatics (or rather so-called charismatics, 'cause I'm sure the genuine ones are fine). As I also said, if it's fine with the Pope, it's fine with me. I really wish people would actually read what other people write: it would save a lot of problems. I feel like I must end with a ! and just to prove how nice I am...

[i<3franciscans]

[quote name='Noel's angel' timestamp='1319665679' post='2327445']


I wasn't starting a debate. I was offering my opinion based on my experiences. If you don't like that, it's not my fault. I was simply saying why a lot of people do have a problem with charismatics (or rather so-called charismatics, 'cause I'm sure the genuine ones are fine). As I also said, if it's fine with the Pope, it's fine with me. I really wish people would actually read what other people write: it would save a lot of problems. I feel like I must end with a ! and just to prove how nice I am...
[/quote]
Yes now I am assured that you are quite nice. I suppose I was just a little edgy in trying to stop anything that might start a debate. I find it frustrating when people don't read what has been written from your own point of view. Sometimes I swear we are so caught up in ourselves that we don't actually [i]see[/i] what is written we only see what we choose to see. I am sorry I didn't quite get your message the first time. I am glad there are no hard feelings.