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Carmelite Live In


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[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319376729' post='2325630']

ouch!
[/quote]


Yes, sometimes the truth of a situation is 'ouch'. Live ins often include many tests, as does postulancy, and in many cases they are tests that you could not recognise if you were not aware of them. A very significant one I learnt was that you never say no....'Do you have a moment?' yes. 'Would you like an early night?' yes. 'Can you sing alto?' yes 'Are you hands okay?' yes (even when so sore they were bleeding.)

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Hi, I'm just back. Wonderful, wonderful time. I was nearly crying leaving. Unlike last time I didn't find anything that difficult, a few niggles but nothing I couldn't handle. I'll post more once I go

Almost time for my live in in Quidenham. Can you tell I'm a little excited? Monday week I fly off. So, five more shifts. I just hope I'm going to be able to drag myself out of bed at 05:30. H

[i]I've since learned that just because it is "natural," it doesn't mean it doesn't have any side effects. That's scary about your BP going over 200! It's a wonder that you didn't have a stroke! :unsure:[/i]

It's extremely fortunate on your part that you didn't stroke out. The chances of that happening (or an undiagnosed cerebral aneurysm rupturing) with a blood pressure that high are favorable. Please note, I am not giving medical advice here (I don't think my malpractice insurance would cover advice over the 'net anyway :hehe2:) That said, please, please, please see a allopathic (regular M.D.) if you can, and then, if you wish, see a homeopath to see what he/she has to say. Many (not all) homeopathic formulations work well for SOME people, but others do cause varying reactions. Also, many osteopaths (D.O.'s) are very into natural or alternative medicine, but their training pretty much mirrors those of an M.D. so I wouldn't hesitate to see one. In fact, my internist is a D.O. and she's very much into trying alternative treatments over conventional ones if at all possible. These are not home remedies mind you, but proven medical science. But I ramble......

Off to Mass :saint2:

p.s. I too get horrible reactions from melatonin and some other natural remedies. I really don't know if anyone in a convent/monastery is equipped to handle medical emergencies stemming from reactions from a bad reaction or poor outcome.

Edited by Francis Clare
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[quote name='Francis Clare' timestamp='1319377145' post='2325634']
That said, please, please, please see a allopathic (regular M.D.) if you can, and then, if you wish, see a homeopath to see what he/she has to say. Many (not all) homeopathic formulations work well for SOME people, but others do cause varying reactions. Also, many osteopaths (D.O.'s) are very into natural or alternative medicine, but their training pretty much mirrors those of an M.D. so I wouldn't hesitate to see one. In fact, my internist is a D.O. and she's very much into trying alternative treatments over conventional ones if at all possible. These are not home remedies mind you, proven medical science. But I ramble......

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The medical practitioner I saw fixed up the problem for me. I don't have high blood pressure any more. I am perfectly happy with my doctor - I am a very healthy person, especially for my age - and I work long hard shifts in a hostel for the elderly - so I know I am fit as well. Have had my check ups and I guess because of my previous lifestyle (as a horse trainer) I am very strong too. I had a bad reaction to the 'natural remedy' but I wouldn't have taken it if I hadn't been pressured by my NM to do so. It was an unfortunate situation, and unlike faith, I don't think anymore that one always has to say 'yes' when asked to do something. If I had said no to the NM and asked to see a doctor instead, then she couldn't have legally refused me - the problem would not have occured.

I don't think that NMs or Prioresses are God - they represent Christ within the community and must be obeyed in all that is legal and moral and right - but one's own common sense also applies - if it didn't - then there would be no difference between a religious community and a cult - where the members are not allowed to question anything the leader says. I'm sorry if this goes against the romantic notion of obedience, but that's not what obedience means to me.

I am perfectly happy to kneel before the Prioress and to speak with her on my knees (as we did at KE) or to speak standing up with her (as we did at all the other convents). I am happy to be obedient to her will in all things except when my own informed conscience and common sense tell me there is a problem (like not wanting to take unprescribed medications - even so called natural ones). I did do as instructed in that situation and was put in a potentially life threatening situation. The Prioress realised the mistake and no longer requires the novices to follow the NMs lead in this regard - although they may do so if they want to. The difficulty for novices is that, as I did, or as faith seems to feel, 'compelled to say yes' to everything.

In the matter of an early night - there is nothing in that request to offend conscience or common sense, so unless one is simply refusing out of a sense of pride ('I can do whatever the other nuns do') or willfulness, I would highly recommend complete compliance (and gratitude for the thoughtfulness).

In the matter of taking non prescription medication of any kind, I would have no hesitation in future or saying to the NM or Prioress that this would not be a good idea for me since in the past I have had a bad reaction to such things. This is what is known as 'common sense' which seems extremely uncommon to me some times!

I would also hesitate to immediately attribute the word 'test' to anything that was asked of me in a convent, because I have found the the Prioress and the NM in most cases have the welfare of the postulant/novice at heart and usually do know better what is needed (such as an early night). I would first assign good motivations to them and only think something else if a pattern of behaviour emerged that seemed detrimental to my spiritual life rather than helpful. Even in KE, where I was asked to leave, I may not have agreed with what the Prioress decided, but I have no doubts in my mind that she felt it was for the best, of me and of the community. If I thought otherwise, I would have to consider her some kind of monster who wanted to hurt me - and I don't believe that.

I have had bullying and harsh treatment in some convents, and sometimes from those in authority. I don't think they were all 'tests' - unless they were the kind God gives to strengthen one. I do think that nuns are human beings and are weak and fallible and human, just like me. And sometimes very holy as well. God uses all things for His glory.

Edited by nunsense
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[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1319365223' post='2325568']
Strictly, you may well be broken in gently, so dont worry on the sleep. One word of advice - if you are asked if you would like an early night, the answer is yes regardless of how you feel. Its a bit of a test to see how you might be with obedience.
[/quote]

When I was doing a live-in before I got very tired. The NM wanted me to have an early night but I kept thinking if I didn't attend all the Offices they'd think I wasn't able for the life. Now I can see I'd probably have had a better experience if I'd done as she suggested.

As regards Melatonin, I use it when I'm coming off night duty to get back into a normal sleep pattern but only on the advice of my doctor. Its not available here unless you're a teenager or over the age of 65 but she told me the dose to take. I got it when I was in America. Its great but at the end of the day its a very powerful hormone. I would think it would have the potential to do harm if used incorrectly or if you were sensitive to it. I use a combination of conventional treatment and aromatherapy oils when my asthma is bad but again under the supervision of a doctor.

I think people forget sometimes that many if not most of our drugs came from plants originally. Herbal remedies always make me nervous. Its important to know just how much of the active ingredient is in it and how it'll interact with any convention medication you're on. St John's Wort is a classic. It can react badly with so many things.

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I don't mean to change the subject....but does anyone have a list of Carmelite monasteries in the US that allow live-ins? I have visited two monasteries but both of them did not allow them. I'm guessing it's more common in the UK?

Edited by LadyOfSorrows
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Typically, 1991 Carmels offer live-ins and 1990s do not.

Not sure how comprehensive and current the content of this page is (and it's slightly confusing to look at!) BUT it does confirm which US Carmels follow which Consitutions: [url="http://cloisters.tripod.com/id63.html"]http://cloisters.tripod.com/id63.html[/url]

This link is for US 1990 Carmels only: [url="http://discalcedcarmelites1990.blogspot.com/"]http://discalcedcarmelites1990.blogspot.com/[/url] There may be a simliar type of site for US 1991 Carmels, meaning comprehensive and limited to 1991, but haven't searched for it. If you're looking for a 1991 Carmel, you could check to see if the Carmel you'd like to contact is on this 1990 list - if it's not, then it would follow that it's 1991.

Hope this helps... (And btw, we're still on topic here ! ! ! )

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This Picasa site has a good list of all the 1990 Carmels in the US and Kirk Edge in the UK - click on picture for additional pictures and other info: [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393"]https://picasaweb.go...809546652959393[/url]

Then there is the St. Joseph Association of 1990 Carmels: [url="http://www.carmelitenunsstjoseph.org/monastery.htm"]http://www.carmelite...g/monastery.htm[/url] - a little outdated as Springfield, MO isn't there anymore.

Also this blog, not sure if it is completed yet: [url="http://discalcedcarmelites1990.blogspot.com/"]http://discalcedcarm...0.blogspot.com/[/url]

And of course this famous thread on 1990/1991 Carmels here on PM: [url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/58540-the-discalced-carmelite-nuns-1990-1991-constitutions/"]http://www.phatmass....-constitutions/[/url]

Edited by Chiara Francesco
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Five days until I go for my live in. Mum is out of hospital and insists she's fine and doesn't have his operation until to end of November so everything should be okay for me to go. Only three shifts to work. I've the weekend before I go which makes a nice change to flying straight from a night duty shift

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[quote name='Mary's Margaret' timestamp='1319646800' post='2327310']
Five days! Reading your post, I have butterflies of excitement for you! My prayers are with you, and although I'm just a 'lurker', I'll be looking forward to hear how it went. Blessings.
[/quote]

Thx. I can't quite believe its quite so close

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Three days to go. I got a lovely email from the NM. I just have to work tonight and then I can get ready. At least I won't be wearing skirts. My knees are purple after a fall on Wednesday. I'm a walking disaster area

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