emmaberry Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Welcome to phatmass, Daughter of Mary!!! (from a fellow Lurker ) EDIT: nevermind, I am a newbie now. Edited May 31, 2012 by emmaberry
beatitude Posted May 31, 2012 Posted May 31, 2012 [quote name='DaughterOfMary' timestamp='1338495241' post='2438880'] I want to be a Contemplative Carmelite also. A 91 constitution monastery has invited me to visit and said then they'll see if they will invite me for a live in. The 90 constitution monastery in Tasmania is stricter as they told me I have to be Confirmed 5 years. I've been Confirmed now since April last year... So 4 years to go. It seems the 91 constitution is a lot more lenient.. I don't know if that's a good thing. I'm kind of leaning towards exercising patience and applying to the Tasmanian Carmel in 4 years [/quote] I don't think this is a constitutional thing at all. The general recommendation is that converts to Catholicism wait for at least two years before becoming a nun, but ultimately it's left up to each individual monastery to make their own decision on this.
DaughterOfMary Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks for the welcome!! The 91 constitution didn't have any problem with that I had Only been Confirmed last year , they even let someone in who had just been baptized!!! But perhaps it does differ in each community
beatitude Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) [quote name='DaughterOfMary' timestamp='1338515970' post='2439071'] Thanks for the welcome!! The 91 constitution didn't have any problem with that I had Only been Confirmed last year , they even let someone in who had just been baptized!!! But perhaps it does differ in each community [/quote] I'm detecting some snobbery towards 1991 Carmels here. No matter whether they are 1990s or 1991s, the prioress and novice mistress should be experienced enough in formation to judge the right time for a person to enter. St Therese entered at fifteen. That would not be right for many people, but it was right for her. St Edith Stein did not enter until she was middle-aged, after a delay of many years during which her spiritual director told her to keep teaching at the university. That would not be right for many people, but it was right for her. Perhaps, through prayer and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the sisters at this monastery decided that the newly baptised woman was ready to enter - and she may well have been. Everybody is different. Talking about how they 'even let in...' makes them sound like a sorority who have disappointed you by not being exclusive enough. Zacchaeus was still a tax collector when Christ called him. Edited June 1, 2012 by beatitude
Chiquitunga Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) Yes, it is not a Consitutional thing as beatitude said. It's up to each community. We had a girl on here who entered a 1990 Carmel within a year of being confirmed. Did the [url="http://www.carmelite.com/nuns/default.cfm?loadref=42"]Carmel in Tasmania[/url] (Launceston) recently switch to the 1990s? because [url="http://www.discalcedcarmel.com/index.php?Seccion=oceaniaodir&CodNacion=3"]here[/url] they are not marked as so (with the three stars ***), but they can be slow to updates things there :/ [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1338489967' post='2438809'] The Mother I am corresponding with said I cannot enter the enclosure unless I am a postulant because of their solemn vow of enclosure. I suppose some communities might take this same vow but allow aspirants to have a live in, but this monastery must not view aspirancy as a valid reason for entering the cloister. My wording may not be entirely right here, but I hope it explained a little bit! [/quote] No you're wording is right Thanks for letting me know. The one live-in I heard about in Palos Park was from someone overseas, so it was probably an exception for her (or perhaps she actually was a postulant and the person telling me about it, who wasn't one of the nuns, had it wrong) as I know another girl who just entered straight. Passionist Nuns also take a solemn vow of enclosure but all of their monasteries in the US allow live-ins, including Ellisville, MO, which tends to be the strictest one. So they probably define the vow differently. edit: wait, actually Passionist Nuns do not have solemn vows, [url="http://www.passionistnuns.org/MothersNotebook/Cloister/index.htm"]http://www.passionis...ister/index.htm[/url] .. as they are not an Order. St. Paul of the Cross wanted this but it never happened - http://www.passionistnuns.org/Saints/VenMotherCrucifiedCP/index.htm That makes sense, because I remember hearing that their enclosure is not Papal but Constitutional. Edited June 1, 2012 by Chiquitunga
DaughterOfMary Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 I'm sorry but calling me snobby is a bit judgemental. It's ridiculous that I can't simply relay information without being attacked. No I'm not snobby towards 91 constitutions bu to me it seemed a little coincidental that the other Carmel is so strict yet this Carmel had let someone enter who had just been baptized. Perhaps it's just the way it is. I really don't appreciate your harsh judgements. I did not come here to cause trouble.
beatitude Posted June 1, 2012 Posted June 1, 2012 (edited) I wasn't attacking you personally, I was pointing out that the way you phrased yourself does come across as a little snobbish towards 1991 Carmels - "They even let in..." I don't think that is helpful to people who are considering the religious life, because it sets up a false hierarchy: "The 1990s Carmel is stricter, so their way of doing things must be better." It's also nothing to do with being strict - as Chiqitunga pointed out, a 1990s Carmel could also accept a recently baptised convert if they saw it as appropriate for that woman. You are passing a judgment on the sisters by assuming that they made the choice they did because they are somehow less strict. That is not fair to them, as it casts doubt on their wisdom and experience. They made the decision that they did with knowledge of the woman that you don't have, and with experience of religious life that you haven't got (but will hopefully have one day). The best way to find a religious 'home' is to look for the one that will really teach you how to love, and sometimes this means going to a place that challenges our thinking instead of one that appears to fit it perfectly. Edited June 1, 2012 by beatitude
emmaberry Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 (edited) Has anyone had experience with automatic postulancy? ..or just leaving a community during one's postulancy? I am so nervous about it, because with automatic postulancy I think it would be so easy to feel like a failure if you leave. I think the aspirancy/live-in experience is psychologically important, because it prepares you for the life you are about to commit yourself too, and gives you confidence that the community you are entering is the right one! It would be so difficult to say goodbye to your possessions, family, and friends, for what might be forever, only to have it in the back of your mind that you might be coming back soon. Of course, this is a reality with anyone entering religious life, but those who have done live-ins probably feel more confident in their decision. I hope it works out. As the Poor Clares (and many others) say, at some point, in faith, you just have to fling yourself into God's arms, but He will always catch you. Edited June 12, 2012 by emmaberry
OnlySunshine Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1339471064' post='2443739'] Has anyone had experience with automatic postulancy? ..or just leaving a community during one's postulancy? I am so nervous about it, because with automatic postulancy I think it would be so easy to feel like a failure if you leave. I think the aspirancy/live-in experience is psychologically important, because it prepares you for the life you are about to commit yourself too, and gives you confidence that the community you are entering is the right one! It would be so difficult to say goodbye to your possessions, family, and friends, for what might be forever, only to have it in the back of your mind that you might be coming back soon. Of course, this is a reality with anyone entering religious life, but those who have done live-ins probably feel more confident in their decision. I hope it works out. As the Poor Clares (and many others) say, at some point, in faith, you just have to fling yourself into God's arms, but He will always catch you. [/quote] Postulancy is the appropriate term for candidates who are not officially bound to the order. Postulancy comes from the word [i]postulare[/i] which means 'to seek or to ask.' It's a required stage within formation and is the 'seeking' stage of one who feels called to religious life. I can understand how you feel a bit perplexed at the idea of going straight in to postulancy, but put your faith and trust in God. If He is calling you to this order -- even for a week or month -- you will gain so much by trusting His plan for you. If the order you are applying to accepts you and you feel called to enter, you can trust that God is indeed calling you to be with them for whatever time He has set. Be bold and courageous like Bl. John Paul said! Think about the disciples Jesus called away from their nets and families. He didn't give them time to aspire to be His disciple. He just said, "Come and follow me." When one of the disciples said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family," Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." Jesus wants our "yes" here and now. You have my prayers!
emmaberry Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1339472829' post='2443760'] Postulancy is the appropriate term for candidates who are not officially bound to the order. Postulancy comes from the word [i]postulare[/i] which means 'to seek or to ask.' It's a required stage within formation and is the 'seeking' stage of one who feels called to religious life. I can understand how you feel a bit perplexed at the idea of going straight in to postulancy, but put your faith and trust in God. If He is calling you to this order -- even for a week or month -- you will gain so much by trusting His plan for you. If the order you are applying to accepts you and you feel called to enter, you can trust that God is indeed calling you to be with them for whatever time He has set. Be bold and courageous like Bl. John Paul said! Think about the disciples Jesus called away from their nets and families. He didn't give them time to aspire to be His disciple. He just said, "Come and follow me." When one of the disciples said, "I will follow you, Lord; but first let me go back and say goodbye to my family," Jesus replied, "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for service in the kingdom of God." Jesus wants our "yes" here and now. You have my prayers! [/quote] Good advice there! Thank you for the promise of prayers--that is so reassuring.
OnlySunshine Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1339473643' post='2443764'] Good advice there! Thank you for the promise of prayers--that is so reassuring. [/quote] You're welcome! I highly recommend that you read [url="http://www.amazon.com/The-Meaning-Vocation-John-Paul/dp/0933932995"][i]The Meaning of Vocation[/i][/url] and [i][url="http://www.amazon.com/Come-Follow-Me-Stephano-Manelli/dp/B0006S6RZS/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1339473985&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=come+follow+me+manelli"]Come, Follow Me[/url][/i]. Both taught me the value of a vocation and what it means to respond to God's call at the proper moment. It's our own doubt and sinfulness that causes us to be wary of answering, but He provides all the strength we need in order to respond. We receive immeasurable graces in religious life so those who receive the call should run with open arms.
emmaberry Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Did anyone have to do a personal essay in their application to a community? Mine is 23 questions long, and it says to keep it brief-but what is brief?? lol. Sorry to hijack, but the phorum isn't letting me post new topics in VS! I'd greatly appreciate any answers. Edited July 16, 2012 by emmaberry
OnlySunshine Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1342426035' post='2456006'] Did anyone have to do a personal essay in their application to a community? Mine is 23 questions long, and it says to keep it brief-but what is brief?? lol. Sorry to hijack, but the phorum isn't letting me post new topics in VS! I'd greatly appreciate any answers. [/quote] When I applied to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in March 2009, the Sisters asked me to write a personal autobiography, not longer than 6 pages. I received the paper application which asked simple questions about my background history such as the dates of my Baptism, First Communion, and Confirmation. The only thing that I had to write a detailed explanation about was my history of depression and what medication I was on. This particular community did not require psychological testing, but they still allowed candidates to apply if their medical conditions were well controlled. However, I know now that is not a good reason to apply and I withdrew my application. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you what is required of my current religious order that I am discerning with as I have not yet received a formal application. I don't think I will until after the psychological assessment is finished with good results.
Lisa Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1342426035' post='2456006'] Did anyone have to do a personal essay in their application to a community? Mine is 23 questions long, and it says to keep it brief-but what is brief?? lol. Sorry to hijack, but the phorum isn't letting me post new topics in VS! I'd greatly appreciate any answers. [/quote] As I see it, If the other questions are fill in the blank style, the personal essay would be longer; it might be more like the 6 pages that MM talked about. On the other hand, if the other questions are open ended "paragraph style" that already give quite a bit of information about your spiritual life/family history, your personal statement probably could be more like one or a couple pages. That's my best guess
emmaberry Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 [quote name='Lisa' timestamp='1342466093' post='2456145'] As I see it, If the other questions are fill in the blank style, the personal essay would be longer; it might be more like the 6 pages that MM talked about. On the other hand, if the other questions are open ended "paragraph style" that already give quite a bit of information about your spiritual life/family history, your personal statement probably could be more like one or a couple pages. That's my best guess [/quote] Thanks Lisa! (That's my mom's name, BTW) Like I said there are 23 short questions, ranging from 'tell us about your life after high school, including studies, your faith, friends, and the basic tenor of your daily living' to 'what are you weakness and strengths' to 'why exactly do you want to be a cloistered contemplative? What desire and vision that you have for your life will be fulfilled by this vocation?' At the top it says to write a brief essay answering the Q's. As you can see, these are all questions I could answer IN DEPTH. As of right now, it is 3.5 pages long (1.5 spacing). I hope this is okay. Thanks for the advice! [quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1342427315' post='2456007'] When I applied to the Carmelite Sisters of the Divine Heart of Jesus in March 2009, the Sisters asked me to write a personal autobiography, not longer than 6 pages. I received the paper application which asked simple questions about my background history such as the dates of my Baptism, First Communion, and Confirmation. The only thing that I had to write a detailed explanation about was my history of depression and what medication I was on. This particular community did not require psychological testing, but they still allowed candidates to apply if their medical conditions were well controlled. However, I know now that is not a good reason to apply and I withdrew my application. Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you what is required of my current religious order that I am discerning with as I have not yet received a formal application. I don't think I will until after the psychological assessment is finished with good results. [/quote] Still praying for your psych exam! So exciting!
OnlySunshine Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 [quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1342476442' post='2456177'] Still praying for your psych exam! So exciting! [/quote] Thanks! I'm excited, too! My future Sisters (God-willing) are praying as well, especially the one that I am friends with on Facebook and the Provincial Superior.
DaughterOfMary Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 Prayers for all here. I have decided I will go for the 91 Carmel. Plus as someone mentioned I think they are all 91 in Australia. I'm going to visit the Carmelites in Lismore , Australia- http://www.flowerofcarmel.com/ They are really lovely and invited me to meet them so I am going end of October to stay in their Guest cottage . Then they will see if they will invite me back for a live in .
Nunsense Posted July 21, 2012 Posted July 21, 2012 [quote name='DaughterOfMary' timestamp='1342913630' post='2457673'] Prayers for all here. I have decided I will go for the 91 Carmel. Plus as someone mentioned I think they are all 91 in Australia. I'm going to visit the Carmelites in Lismore , Australia- [url="http://www.flowerofcarmel.com/"]http://www.flowerofcarmel.com/[/url] They are really lovely and invited me to meet them so I am going end of October to stay in their Guest cottage . Then they will see if they will invite me back for a live in . [/quote] Be careful, Carmel gets into your blood!
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