Tradition Within Cloistered Convents

[Antigonos]

The yearly play we nursing students put on when I was training at Beth Israel Hospital in New York was an "adaptation" of Fiddler. "Tradition" of course was related to all the medical traditions we had to keep.

This is actually more relevant than it seems. The origin of monastic life lived according to a Holy Rule comes from the Jewish concept of turning one's life into an act of worship by living by Halacha. Halacha is usually translated as "Jewish Law", but the word itself is derived from the verb "to walk" and really means, in a modern phrase, "walk the talk". Halacha covers absolutely every possible situation, and it is the framework which orders Orthodox Jewish life to this day.

Interesting coincidence that you should post this excerpt now. Israel TV screened this film just a couple of days ago [Tevye the milkman is played by the Israeli actor Haim Topol, btw]

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Antigonos' timestamp='1319364241' post='2325562']
The yearly play we nursing students put on when I was training at Beth Israel Hospital in New York was an "adaptation" of Fiddler. "Tradition" of course was related to all the medical traditions we had to keep.

This is actually more relevant than it seems. The origin of monastic life lived according to a Holy Rule comes from the Jewish concept of turning one's life into an act of worship by living by Halacha. Halacha is usually translated as "Jewish Law", but the word itself is derived from the verb "to walk" and really means, in a modern phrase, "walk the talk". Halacha covers absolutely every possible situation, and it is the framework which orders Orthodox Jewish life to this day.

Interesting coincidence that you should post this excerpt now. Israel TV screened this film just a couple of days ago [Tevye the milkman is played by the Israeli actor Haim Topol, btw]
[/quote]

My sister was in her high school production of [u]Fiddler on the Roof[/u]. She played Fruma-Sarah and "woman in the crowd." I remember it vividly.

[faithcecelia]

[quote name='Strictlyinkblot' timestamp='1319356988' post='2325522']
The Benedictines I did my live in had mass and divine office in Latin but I believe the mass was NO as the priest was facing the congregation. I'm not sure because my Latin is restricted to the Hail Mary and a few medical terms. They had two lovely customs though. One was that before receiving the Eucharist and Blood of Christ they would geneflect or bow and then take Communion standing. It was very, very reverend. The second was for the sign of peace they would bow to the person beside them and then embrace them and kiss them on the cheek. It was lovely.
[/quote]


Yes, St C's is NO in Latin, and they are served by Quarr which is nice.

My Ordinariate priest has been left feeling extremely touched and overwhelmed by St C's as they have just welcomed him with open arms. He did Benediction for them of the feast of St Benedict and then their superior got each sister in turn to kneel while he gave them a blessing. He is also to be ivolved in a Solemn profession on Epiphany. I am not suprised by this welcome, as they welcomed me as a failed Carmelite with so much love (as a worshiper, I never discerned with them) and their extern held me while I sobbed through many a service those early days. I haven't been ages, between work and the parish having 2 priests now so more weekday Masses, but I really must get back, I love it there,

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='the171' timestamp='1319346665' post='2325483']
I'm fifthteen. The community I'm an aspirant with is totes AMAZE-CAKE. I mean.... they are modified habits (not to the extreme) but they're postulants wear veils in the Holy Presence. Check it: Laffy Carm. lafayettecarmel.org Tell Sr.Mary John that Dylana sent you She'll know who. haah they used to have Byzantine mass every once in a while and also the Ex. Form. Latin rite. Very diverse community. Traddies. (the good kind.) Not sure which constitutions. I'll email Sr.MJ, but she's on retreat right now.... Anyone know? I don't want to bother her. Claire, I think you might like my Carmies.
[/quote]

Lafayette is under the 1991s. But yeah, as I wrote in my old thread on the topic, everything really comes down to the particular community in finding a good Carmel, and especially of course God's will ..where [i]He [/i]wants you
Everything you have written about Lafayette sounds wonderful!! And I'm still super psyched they continue with the wedding dresses down there. Yes!!!

[Strictlyinkblot]

[quote name='faithcecelia' timestamp='1319365075' post='2325566']


Yes, St C's is NO in Latin, and they are served by Quarr which is nice.

My Ordinariate priest has been left feeling extremely touched and overwhelmed by St C's as they have just welcomed him with open arms. He did Benediction for them of the feast of St Benedict and then their superior got each sister in turn to kneel while he gave them a blessing. He is also to be ivolved in a Solemn profession on Epiphany. I am not suprised by this welcome, as they welcomed me as a failed Carmelite with so much love (as a worshiper, I never discerned with them) and their extern held me while I sobbed through many a service those early days. I haven't been ages, between work and the parish having 2 priests now so more weekday Masses, but I really must get back, I love it there,
[/quote]

Their extern nun is just gorgeous. She kept trying to feed me when I visited there and when I'd be leaving she'd put more food wrapped up for me to eat on bus. I love their Compline service.
The Irish nun there has special permission to play 'Hail Glorious St. Patrick' on St. Patrick's Day every year.

[the171]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1319417753' post='2325932']

Lafayette is under the 1991s. But yeah, as I wrote in my old thread on the topic, everything really comes down to the particular community in finding a good Carmel, and especially of course God's will ..where [i]He [/i]wants you
Everything you have written about Lafayette sounds wonderful!! And I'm still super psyched they continue with the wedding dresses down there. Yes!!!
[/quote]

If they're 1991, they seem VERY 1990.

[MarysLittleFlower]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319325406' post='2325331']
I know that it is a somewhat common belief that cloistered convents are more traditional. For those of you who have been to Mass at a convent like this or have even been a live-in or visited, is that the case? What are the Masses like that you have encountered at cloistered monasteries? I like to think I am quite conservative on matters of the liturgy (veiling, kneeling for Communion, Communion on the tongue, a huge fan of the Latin Mass, etc.) But I do believe the Novus Ordo is valid, and I most definitely do not hate on non-veilers and people who do not receive kneeling or on the tongue. These things are just my personal choices to show reverence for my Beloved. As these are my choices to show reverence, I come back to wondering about what Masses are like at cloistered convents. I have contacted the [url="http://www.sistersofcarmel.org/index.htm"]Tridentine Carmelites[/url], but they seemed less than inviting and quite condescending (almost) to how young I am (I am only 13, and I can't stand it when people tell me that I'm so young and that I have time, of course the nuns didn't say that, but I caught on to what they were saying). I have since come in contact with an amazing Mother Superior, and I think I may be called to this convent. I am planning on visiting and going to Mass there soon, and I can't wait.

Claire

[/quote]

I am much like you regarding the Latin Mass, veiling, etc... I think there are some communities that are loyal to Rome and have the Latin Mass I remember my (FSSP) priest mentioning they exist. A friend of mine visited one like this and loved it. I don't think you are too young to discern that is great that you are discerning! God bless edit: I don't know, but I heard somewhere that the Carmelite order that you linked is actually not in communion with Rome... I hope that is not the case! Perhaps you could find out. Even if this is true, there are other traditional orders out there with the Latin Mass. here's a thread that lists some of them: [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=606430"]http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=606430[/url]

Edited October 25, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1319509686' post='2326668']

I am much like you regarding the Latin Mass, veiling, etc... I think there are some communities that are loyal to Rome and have the Latin Mass I remember my (FSSP) priest mentioning they exist. A friend of mine visited one like this and loved it. I don't think you are too young to discern that is great that you are discerning! God bless edit: I don't know, but I heard somewhere that the Carmelite order that you linked is actually not in communion with Rome... I hope that is not the case! Perhaps you could find out. Even if this is true, there are other traditional orders out there with the Latin Mass. here's a thread that lists some of them: [url="http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=606430"]http://forums.cathol...ad.php?t=606430[/url]
[/quote]
I did not like that Carmelite order anyway after the response I got from them. I have heard that within the past three days that they are not loyal to Rome, wow. Thank you for believing that I am not too young to be looking into this. St. Therese entered the convent at 15 and she knew for a long time that this was her calling. God chooses to reveal one's vocation to them at different times.

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319510352' post='2326681']
I did not like that Carmelite order anyway after the response I got from them. I have heard that within the past three days that they are not loyal to Rome, wow. Thank you for believing that I am not too young to be looking into this. St. Therese entered the convent at 15 and she knew for a long time that this was her calling. God chooses to reveal one's vocation to them at different times.
[/quote]


Being told you are too young is a bit like being told you are too old... as one nun told a friend of mine, you are never too old to pray. And I think the same could be said about being young.

I think a lot of people worry about younger vocations because they don't want to see them make a possible mistake, but God uses all things for our good, and there is no way in life to avoid mistakes - we have to make our own and learn from them. Who knows what is mistake anyway except the person who does it - and then only in hindsight.

Therese's sister Leonie had a hard time of her vocation but was it a mistake for her to enter and leave so many times? She eventually found her home with the Visitation and lived a life dedicated to God. Was her gift any less than that of Therese who entered young and died a saint? I don't think God sees it that way. Didn't Jesus say that the widow had given more than anyone else because she gave her mite - all that she had.

Each of us can only give our own mite, and for some that will be a lot and for some a little -- as long as it is the best we can give, then God accepts them all the same.

Nothing stops the young from discerning as well as us seniors... God be with you.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1319510781' post='2326689']


Being told you are too young is a bit like being told you are too old... as one nun told a friend of mine, you are never too old to pray. And I think the same could be said about being young.

I think a lot of people worry about younger vocations because they don't want to see them make a possible mistake, but God uses all things for our good, and there is no way in life to avoid mistakes - we have to make our own and learn from them. Who knows what is mistake anyway except the person who does it - and then only in hindsight.

Therese's sister Leonie had a hard time of her vocation but was it a mistake for her to enter and leave so many times? She eventually found her home with the Visitation and lived a life dedicated to God. Was her gift any less than that of Therese who entered young and died a saint? I don't think God sees it that way. Didn't Jesus say that the widow had given more than anyone else because she gave her mite - all that she had.

Each of us can only give our own mite, and for some that will be a lot and for some a little -- as long as it is the best we can give, then God accepts them all the same.

Nothing stops the young from discerning as well as us seniors... God be with you.
[/quote]
Thank you so much for the kind words. That is so true about Leonie and Therese and about what that nun said. God chooses us at different times, and it will not be that same for everyone, and Therese and Leonie prove that even for sisters it can be so different.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1319509686' post='2326668']I am much like you regarding the Latin Mass, veiling, etc... I think there are some communities that are loyal to Rome and have the Latin Mass I remember my (FSSP) priest mentioning they exist.[/quote]

Yep, there are

Valparaiso, NE - [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfJesusMaryJosephValparaisoNE"]https://picasaweb.go...ephValparaisoNE[/url]

Elysburg, PA - [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfJesusMaryJosephElysburgPA"]https://picasaweb.go...osephElysburgPA[/url]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/104068-carmelite-nuns-in-elysburg-pa/"]http://www.phatmass....in-elysburg-pa/[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114318-carmelite-nuns-elysburg/"]http://www.phatmass....-nuns-elysburg/[/url] <-- FutureCarmelite, I think you may especially appreciate this thread (and the email posted there is not theirs, but the former community that was there, just to let you know)

[beatitude]

I agree with what Nunsense writes. You may enter the monastery very young, at their minimum age. I've met sisters who did, and who are now in their eighties, having spent almost all their lives as nuns. This is what is right for some people. Not for others. It wouldn't have been right for me, as all our stories are different.

Don't get irritated with nuns who suggest that you have time. See it as a chance to learn patience and humility instead. (A very Carmelite thing to do!) I doubt that the sisters are trying to discourage you from trying your vocation in the monastery one day, just pointing out that at thirteen, there are other things that need your attention now (things that are just as important to your vocation in life). For example, how do you pray? When I was your age I used to spend a long time each day in prayer. That habit left me as I got older (or I left it...). I wish now that I had done all I could to keep it, even on exam days or days when I had a ton of stuff to do. Daily rosary? Silent contemplative prayer? Bible reading? Every day, make time for them. Keep your prayer as quiet as possible. Don't make a big fuss over it. Maybe set your alarm clock for an hour before you would usually wake, and pray then, with no one knowing. Then last thing at night before you sleep. You can't enter a monastery until you're older, as most of them won't take entrants younger than seventeen or eighteen, but praying deeply is something you can do now. So is study. So is being a good daughter or sibling. Put your whole heart into everything you do, and make it a prayer - a habit that you will need in the monastery. And remember the old saying: "Today is a gift - that's why they call it the present." Thank God for that.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

That is wonderful advice. Thank you so much!!

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='Chiquitunga' timestamp='1319513333' post='2326713']

Yep, there are

Valparaiso, NE - [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfJesusMaryJosephValparaisoNE"]https://picasaweb.go...ephValparaisoNE[/url]

Elysburg, PA - [url="https://picasaweb.google.com/112954809546652959393/CarmelOfJesusMaryJosephElysburgPA"]https://picasaweb.go...osephElysburgPA[/url]

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/104068-carmelite-nuns-in-elysburg-pa/"]http://www.phatmass....in-elysburg-pa/[/url]
[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114318-carmelite-nuns-elysburg/"]http://www.phatmass....-nuns-elysburg/[/url] <-- FutureCarmelite, I think you may especially appreciate this thread (and the email posted there is not theirs, but the former community that was there, just to let you know)
[/quote]
Thanks, that was really good.

[Chiquitunga]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1319541600' post='2326774']
Thanks, that was really good.
[/quote]

Sure thing And here's ceceliatherese's thread on her visit ..

[url="http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/114917-what-to-expect-on-a-visit-to-carmel/page__p__2289544#entry2289544"]http://www.phatmass....44#entry2289544[/url]