Do You Have What It Takes?

[Deus te Amat]

What is that you even need to have what it takes? How do you prepare for the difficulties and challenges that make up religious life?

Recently, another friend of mine discerned out of the convent. That means that for the sole exception of one sister (who is still in formation -- out of the novitiate but has yet to make final vows), every person that I have personally known enter the convent has left. I realize that that may be God's will for them, but the sobering reality is that I am terrified of it happening to me. Religious life is HARD. Here in the VS, I see touted a very romanticized version of what the religious life is, and, (forgive me faith and nunsense,-- I am so glad for your witness here), I don't think many of us realize the staggering reality that[i] is[/i] religious life. The loneliness. The inability to share with anyone but God... Emotional attachments to people? bad plan. How do you prepare? How do you know you can persevere? God's grace and God's will. But does that mean the people who left weren't given the grace necessary to succeed?

I "know" the answers to these questions. But so, I thought, did my friends who entered and left.

How can I prepare? For those of you that have entered and left, what is your perspective? Do you have any thoughts/suggestions?

Thank you for listening to my rant. ahhhhhhh
DtA

[faithcecelia]

I think the only way you can ever really know is to go and try. Even if you are always obedient, always keep the Rule meticulously, are the happiest you have ever been in your life and persevere in prayer, you can never be absolutely, 100% sure.

Strangely, I think that having been through what I have (being sent away after a relatively long time, struggling to readjust and now about to enter another community) shows that I probably do have what it takes...in the right place. I have never stopped persevering; I would never have chosen to leave, and I was very badly hurt by the way i was dismissed with no warning. There are other details that I wont go into but that caused me a lot of pain, and through a number of conversations with my new prioress I am confident they will never happen there (though of course there may be other struggles).

Very few women marry their first boyfriend, but until you allow the relationship to develop you cannot predict the outcome. I certainly think fear of failure should never be a just reason to not try.

[beatitude]

I am not planning to enter a religious community; I believe I am called to live out my life as a consecrated woman in a secular institute. Just tonight I was thinking about what this means for me.

All my life I will stand alone.

No husband, no sisters. Just me. And I know enough of me to realise that my difficulties and my weaknesses aren't going to fly out of the window the moment I take vows. The life I lead as a consecrated woman will be near-identical to the life I lead now - I will still struggle not to be sloppy in prayer, careless with my money and possessions, lazy with the use of my time, proud, judgmental, and all the rest of it. I will still be rocked by impulsiveness one minute and gripped by apathy the next.

There will be at least two solid hours of mental prayer a day. These will often bore me. Prayer isn't going to become a rapture and an ecstasty as soon as I join the institute.

I will get frustrated and tired. I will still snap at people. I will look at other people's family lives, and I will feel sad sometimes - if only because I resent not having someone to take my temper out on at the end of a long working day.

The only difference is that with my vows, I will tell God that I am prepared to live with this without distractions. I accept myself as I am.

And God, that's going to be hard.

You are still yourself, in the convent or out of it. Your weaknesses now will be your weaknesses then. But hopefully you will also learn there that God loves us in our weakness, and it's not something we need to run away from. Providing you know this, I think you will persevere - if, of course, that convent is where you're asked to be.

[vee]

Our life is the way of the cross "pick up your cross and follow me" Jesus said, for anyone who wishes to come after Him must do so. St Teresa of Avila recommends meditating on the passion often as well, as one will make great spiritual profit from that. We cannot avoid suffering instead we offer it up, unite it with Him and in doing so comfort Him, atone for sins and achieve the conversion of sinners. That makes any vocation meaningful, any suffering meaningful.

[faithcecelia]

Beatitude, that is so true. But its also important to remember that keeping the Rule, whether of a Religious community, a lay community, or third order consecration will draw you closer to God, and He will work through our weaknesses and purify them.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1320275903' post='2330493']
What is that you even need to have what it takes? How do you prepare for the difficulties and challenges that make up religious life?

Recently, another friend of mine discerned out of the convent. That means that for the sole exception of one sister (who is still in formation -- out of the novitiate but has yet to make final vows), every person that I have personally known enter the convent has left. I realize that that may be God's will for them, but the sobering reality is that I am terrified of it happening to me. Religious life is HARD. Here in the VS, I see touted a very romanticized version of what the religious life is, and, (forgive me faith and nunsense,-- I am so glad for your witness here), I don't think many of us realize the staggering reality that[i] is[/i] religious life. The loneliness. The inability to share with anyone but God... Emotional attachments to people? bad plan. How do you prepare? How do you know you can persevere? God's grace and God's will. But does that mean the people who left weren't given the grace necessary to succeed?

I "know" the answers to these questions. But so, I thought, did my friends who entered and left.

How can I prepare? For those of you that have entered and left, what is your perspective? Do you have any thoughts/suggestions?

Thank you for listening to my rant. ahhhhhhh
DtA
[/quote]


DtA - I don't think you can know until you try. Yes, religious life is hard. That's just a fact. There is a lot about it that is alien to our human nature. but it can also be a great joy. When the disciples asked Jesus how anyone could be saved, He said that for man it was impossible, but for God it was possible. Perhaps the thing to remember is to always depend on God's strength and not on our own.

Like faith, I have been very hurt by some of my experiences in the convent. I wasn't always my choice to leave and even when it was, this was usually because of things that happened that were unendurable for me. Having had such experience, I could say I probably have even more fears than those who are considering entering for the first time. And yet, I continue to try to find where God wants me. Am I kidding myself? Am I just being stubborn and refusing to accept that I have no vocation? Maybe. I don't know. Even if I get accepted again, will I be able to persevere? Will they kick me out like Kirk Edge did? I don't know. I think what I just red by Lil Red on another thread about Forgiveness makes sense to me even here -- I need to remain 'woundable' and not try to protect myself from being wounded by either my own weakness or by the actions of others.

All I can offer in the way of advice is for you to humbly ask God to make it possible for you to persevere and then to give it your best shot. And never to lose faith or trust in Him, no matter what happens. It takes great courage to enter a convent and stay, but it also takes great courage to leave one (whether by choice or not) because of the hurt and sorrow. And to try again (and again and again?) well, what can I say? All I know now is that it's about trust, trust, trust....

[MarisStella]

I have nothing to add except that this is so relevant and gives me some things to think about.

[OnlySunshine]

Honestly, I can never know 100% that I can live the life until I actually try it for myself. I know someone who left the convent this year -- not by her own will -- and she is returning next year. I always thought that she'd be there until her last breath. Only God bestows the graces to live the life. We just do the best we can with what we've been given.

[vee]

I am reminded of St John of the Cross saying “[i]Beloved[/i], [i]all[/i] that is harsh and difficult I want for myself, and [i]all[/i] that is gentle and [i]sweet[/i] for thee"

[dominicansoul]

for me, religious life was Christmas everyday, and I'm not exaggerating...


i come from a very poor background, i do not possess any positions of honor, i am nothing... this made it pretty easy for me to become nothing in the convent. I didn't miss television, radio, a huge bank account, my favorite shampoo, a huge house, etc. etc. etc.

the only huge sacrifice came from leaving my mom, she was my everything in this world...

Vee is correct, you prepare yourself by praying every single day and meditating on Jesus, not on yourself. One of the greatest accomplishments to make is dying to your will... from the moment you step into the convent, you are not living for yourself, you are living for Jesus and for your Sisters, and that is not an easy thing to do for some people who have a strong will, and "their way is the end all be all"...

What really helped me was praying to the Holy Spirit...

He inspired me to desire to live the two greatest commandments in the convent. My prayer as I crossed the threshold of the convent was, "Come Holy Spirit, I am yours, help me to live my life forever here, living the two greatest commandments."

From that day forward I found myself seeing everyone in the light of Christ, not judging them by their harshness, their bad attitudes, nor their silly pride... I can truly say that I loved everyone of my Sisters with all my heart... I realized that living in the convent made me grow closer and closer and more in love with Jesus, and falling in love with Jesus went hand and hand with loving my Sisters... you cannot have one without the other, that love compliments one another...

I once told Mother, "Mother, when does the Sacrifice begin?" I was loving every minute of it!!! I had everything and even more than i could imagine!!! She laughed and said, "My child, that day will come... and you will be ready for it."

That day came when my beloved mother became ill, and I had to leave the convent to care for her. You see, my sacrifice wasn't made when I entered.. the sacrifice came when I had to leave... This was what God was calling me to... to offer up my life for my mother...

DtA, don't be afraid, every single person's experience is unique... you will have to go and see, live it, and don't look back... wait and watch and continue to answer the call every single day...

[InPersonaChriste]

I dont think this question is something I wont have to be worried about for many years. Or at least I hope not, it is something I am aware of. I try not to romanticise religious life, but it is a default to my adolesence. I see things as a teenager, and I am a teenager. I will mature with God as I age, and I thank him that he is so patient with me.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1320283175' post='2330564']
for me, religious life was Christmas everyday, and I'm not exaggerating...


i come from a very poor background, i do not possess any positions of honor, i am nothing... this made it pretty easy for me to become nothing in the convent. I didn't miss television, radio, a huge bank account, my favorite shampoo, a huge house, etc. etc. etc.

the only huge sacrifice came from leaving my mom, she was my everything in this world...

Vee is correct, you prepare yourself by praying every single day and meditating on Jesus, not on yourself. One of the greatest accomplishments to make is dying to your will... from the moment you step into the convent, you are not living for yourself, you are living for Jesus and for your Sisters, and that is not an easy thing to do for some people who have a strong will, and "their way is the end all be all"...

What really helped me was praying to the Holy Spirit...

He inspired me to desire to live the two greatest commandments in the convent. My prayer as I crossed the threshold of the convent was, "Come Holy Spirit, I am yours, help me to live my life forever here, living the two greatest commandments."

From that day forward I found myself seeing everyone in the light of Christ, not judging them by their harshness, their bad attitudes, nor their silly pride... I can truly say that I loved everyone of my Sisters with all my heart... I realized that living in the convent made me grow closer and closer and more in love with Jesus, and falling in love with Jesus went hand and hand with loving my Sisters... you cannot have one without the other, that love compliments one another...

I once told Mother, "Mother, when does the Sacrifice begin?" I was loving every minute of it!!! I had everything and even more than i could imagine!!! She laughed and said, "My child, that day will come... and you will be ready for it."

That day came when my beloved mother became ill, and I had to leave the convent to care for her. You see, my sacrifice wasn't made when I entered.. the sacrifice came when I had to leave... This was what God was calling me to... to offer up my life for my mother...

DtA, don't be afraid, every single person's experience is unique... you will have to go and see, live it, and don't look back... wait and watch and continue to answer the call every single day...
[/quote]


Actually, my third experience of Carmel was much like this. I had nothing from having entered twice before and I had already said goodbye to all family and friends and had spent time with the hermits and knew that I needed community. I was blissfully happy from the moment I stepped foot into the enclosure - in fact even during my week's visit outside as a guest. From Day One the NM would ask me how I was and I would say how happy I was. She would ask if I had any problems and I would say no, none. She and I got along well and she told me I definitely had a vocation.

Yes, there were hardships, like not being part of the community (as a postulant there, there was more separation than at other Carmels) but I knew that in time Clothing would come and that would take care of that problem.

Then for some reason that I still don't fully understand, the Prioress told me she had called in a priest to meet with me to discuss whether or not I had a vocation. I spent two hours with him and he seemed very happy with me - the only thing he mentioned was that perhaps Mother was having problems with our 'cultural differences' (his words). He said that Americans tend to be more outspoken than the English and perhaps she was having problems with this.

Then one day Mother said she wanted me to think about leaving. I asked if this she wanted to make the decision or if she wanted me to make it. She said I could make it. I then told our NM that I thought Mother was going to ask me to leave and she said of course not, that I really had a vocation. I was never able to speak with her again as that night I said to Mother that I wanted to stay and she said no, she wanted me to leave. I begged for more time to show her I could be what she wanted. She said no and told me to leave the next day. I wasn't allowed to speak with anyone (including our NM) except the Depositrix (Bursar) who would help me handle the details of getting a taxi to the airport. I also had to attend Mass the next day in the chapel - not with the sisters. Before I left, I went on my knees to Mother and thanked her for everything (and stayed in contact with her over the years until another Prioress was elected and she left for a rest home) but even though on the outside I did everything that was expected, on the inside, I was broken and hurt and felt rejected by God (at the time).

The thing is, that we can never know what the future may hold. That is why our trust in God has to be absolute. We could be blissfull happy like DS was, or I was, and then either have to leave to care for a sick relative, or be asked to leave for reasons unknown to us.

One of the nuns at my last Carmel was a choir nun for 20 years when her elderly Jewish mother took sick. She left the convent to care for her until her death - and during those years her mother converted to Catholicism. Then this lovely woman asked to return to the convent and they said yes, but only as an extern. She accepted this and is still there today. She never knew her vocation would take this path.... but she did what she felt called to do in all cases. And she helped me a lot while I was there.

No guarantees, whether it is easy for you or hard, you stay forever or leave and get married, leave and re-enter or whatever happens... the most important thing is to love God and trust that He loves us more than we can possibly imagine. what else really matters?

[TheresaThoma]

The thing is I don't know,that is why I am discerning, I hope that I have what it takes but that is what I am trying to discover. For now I adhere to the advice given by one of my Jesuit friends : "God will continue to call you in the present moment: for now, make school your convent, your professors and supervisors your superiors, and charity your habit".

[the171]

I've never entered, but from the VS and various religious, I have seen that we need to begin to detach before we enter. And even if we aren't called to relgious life, you can't have emotional attachments. It sets you up for failure in whatever vocation you are called to. I know that God will prepare me if I am open to his will. Now, I will observe this thread because I find myself thoroughly interested.

[Little Flower]

[quote name='Deus_te_Amat' timestamp='1320275903' post='2330493']
What is that you even need to have what it takes? How do you prepare for the difficulties and challenges that make up religious life?

Recently, another friend of mine discerned out of the convent. That means that for the sole exception of one sister (who is still in formation -- out of the novitiate but has yet to make final vows), every person that I have personally known enter the convent has left. I realize that that may be God's will for them, but the sobering reality is that I am terrified of it happening to me. Religious life is HARD. Here in the VS, I see touted a very romanticized version of what the religious life is, and, (forgive me faith and nunsense,-- I am so glad for your witness here), I don't think many of us realize the staggering reality that[i] is[/i] religious life. The loneliness. The inability to share with anyone but God... Emotional attachments to people? bad plan. How do you prepare? How do you know you can persevere? God's grace and God's will. But does that mean the people who left weren't given the grace necessary to succeed?

I "know" the answers to these questions. But so, I thought, did my friends who entered and left.

How can I prepare? For those of you that have entered and left, what is your perspective? Do you have any thoughts/suggestions?

Thank you for listening to my rant. ahhhhhhh
DtA
[/quote]
Sometimes I doubt it... if I can't get along with my siblings how am I going to do with all these women who are so completely different from me with radically different backgrounds?

You say loneliness. Wouldn't you develop relationships with sisters? Especially if you are entering a cloistered community where there will be less sisters than an active one?

[jennyanne]

religious life is really hard. leaving is even more hard. i would think twice, and thrice before ever considering entering again. i am not happy with the way things went down. but for those who think they are called...i guess go for it and good luck!

[Nunsense]

[quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1320289512' post='2330633']
Sometimes I doubt it... if I can't get along with my siblings how am I going to do with all these women who are so completely different from me with radically different backgrounds?

You say loneliness. Wouldn't you develop relationships with sisters? Especially if you are entering a cloistered community where there will be less sisters than an active one?
[/quote]

This depends on the particular community. In some Carmels, there is more interaction than in others. For example, in one Carmel, our Recreation was quite interactive between each other with a chance to sit next to every sister over the course of time. In two others, we had to direct the conversation through the Prioress despite the fact that we were all sitting together in a circle, so the conversations were not as 'personal'. I did find at one convent that there were little 'cliques' developing at Recreation with sisters who like each other tending to sit together all the time (not very 'religious' but a fact). One sister used to withdraw to a corner with her sewing and never wanted to interact with anyone.

Usually at Christmas time though, there was a chance to visit sisters in their cells and share photos of family and get to know each other a bit better. This was nice. We made appointments with every other sister, so no one got left out. And of course, on Solemnities, there were always 'parties' where we were allowed to chat together with each other quite freely (not at the 1990s Carmel but at all the 1991s). And at one Carmel, the sisters would use Solemnities (when there was no 'work') to get together and play games like table tennis, or other active things where we could have several of us doing it together.

So, as I say, it depends on the community.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='jennyanne' timestamp='1320289815' post='2330640']
religious life is really hard. leaving is even more hard. i would think twice, and thrice before ever considering entering again. i am not happy with the way things went down. but for those who think they are called...i guess go for it and good luck!
[/quote]

Oh how I understand this. And I have even sometimes prayed that if this isn't what God wants, that He would just take away the longing to enter again. When things have been really bad (as it sounds like it was for you) then one does tend to have more worries and fears and doubts than if one had never even tried it before. But I guess where I am fortunate is that I have had some wonderful experiences too, and I know that the bad things that happened to me were just human beings being human (almost a palindrome there! ) and not God telling me to go away from Him (which is what it felt like at times).

I hope that you have recovered from whatever happened to you and that God directs your heart to whatever is best for you now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings.

[brandelynmarie]

I have spent a number of years working in nursing homes & now I work in a hospital. So often I think about the many different personalities that I deal with, not just my patients & their loved ones, but also with my co-workers (housekeepers, doctors, nurses, lab people, ward clerks). So many different ways to see the same thing! So many different ways to do something! And how I have learned the art of negotiation...I have learned to pick & chose my battles (& trust me, there is alot that is simply not worth losing sleep over! ) And so often I think, monastery living must be awfully similar to all of this.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1320322816' post='2330738']
I have spent a number of years working in nursing homes & now I work in a hospital. So often I think about the many different personalities that I deal with, not just my patients & their loved ones, but also with my co-workers (housekeepers, doctors, nurses, lab people, ward clerks). So many different ways to see the same thing! So many different ways to do something! And how I have learned the art of negotiation...I have learned to pick & chose my battles (& trust me, there is alot that is simply not worth losing sleep over! ) And so often I think, monastery living must be awfully similar to all of this.
[/quote]


Good point brandelynmarie - 'SIMILAR' is the key word though - not the same. I have worked as a nurse, teacher, foster parent, department chair, horse trainer etc etc etc.... and I agree with what you say about learning when to fight the battles and when to let them go .... BUT ..... and here is the key, in the world you can go home...

you don't LIVE with the ones who are hostile (haters gonna hate seems to be a favourite quote from Isaiah around here) or the ones who simply are hard to get along with.

I have two very hostile workers with me at the elderly hostel where I work now. It is hard, but I can always go home at the end of a shift. I can post on here about how tough it is. I can have a glass of wine or a cup of tea to soothe my ruffled feelings. I can talk to my boss or my priest or my friends and they can tell me I'm right and make me feel better. The point is that I can do something.

In the monastery, one does not go running to the superior or NM to complain about how they are being treated, and even if they do finally break down and ask for help, sometimes they are told that St Therese was able to cope with unpleasant people and it made her a saint, or that God is using the other person to 'smooth out the rough edges' or that we must 'put love where there is no love'... but there is no escape. No TV. No cell phones to call friends or family. No hot drink or cold drink or glass of wine whenever needed.... no comfort food, no sleeping to recover or long hot showers....

I am not complaining here - believe me I have lived through it all. I am merely stating fact. There IS a difference between coping in the world with difficult people and coping in a monastery with difficult people and or situations. And what if the difficult person is the superior? In the world you can quit your job but are you going to leave the monastery because of the superior? The thing is that one has to look at things supernaturally in the convent, not from the human perspective, one must see God's hand in all things and one must strive to be better than one probably is naturally. So it is harder. All the negotiation skills in the world don't substitute for trust in God's strength and not our own. In fact, being proud of one's skills and abilities is a SURE way to get tested because we are not in charge once we hand over the reins of our life to God. Write that blank cheque (check) and don't be surprised if God fills in an amount that you couldn't possibly imagine!!!!!!!!!

I'm just saying - you can't compare apples and oranges, skills at living in the world with the surrender needed to live in a monastery. Only living it can really make it clear.