jennyanne Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 religious life is really hard. leaving is even more hard. i would think twice, and thrice before ever considering entering again. i am not happy with the way things went down. but for those who think they are called...i guess go for it and good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='Little Flower' timestamp='1320289512' post='2330633'] Sometimes I doubt it... if I can't get along with my siblings how am I going to do with all these women who are so completely different from me with radically different backgrounds? You say loneliness. Wouldn't you develop relationships with sisters? Especially if you are entering a cloistered community where there will be less sisters than an active one? [/quote] This depends on the particular community. In some Carmels, there is more interaction than in others. For example, in one Carmel, our Recreation was quite interactive between each other with a chance to sit next to every sister over the course of time. In two others, we had to direct the conversation through the Prioress despite the fact that we were all sitting together in a circle, so the conversations were not as 'personal'. I did find at one convent that there were little 'cliques' developing at Recreation with sisters who like each other tending to sit together all the time (not very 'religious' but a fact). One sister used to withdraw to a corner with her sewing and never wanted to interact with anyone. Usually at Christmas time though, there was a chance to visit sisters in their cells and share photos of family and get to know each other a bit better. This was nice. We made appointments with every other sister, so no one got left out. And of course, on Solemnities, there were always 'parties' where we were allowed to chat together with each other quite freely (not at the 1990s Carmel but at all the 1991s). And at one Carmel, the sisters would use Solemnities (when there was no 'work') to get together and play games like table tennis, or other active things where we could have several of us doing it together. So, as I say, it depends on the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='jennyanne' timestamp='1320289815' post='2330640'] religious life is really hard. leaving is even more hard. i would think twice, and thrice before ever considering entering again. i am not happy with the way things went down. but for those who think they are called...i guess go for it and good luck! [/quote] Oh how I understand this. And I have even sometimes prayed that if this isn't what God wants, that He would just take away the longing to enter again. When things have been really bad (as it sounds like it was for you) then one does tend to have more worries and fears and doubts than if one had never even tried it before. But I guess where I am fortunate is that I have had some wonderful experiences too, and I know that the bad things that happened to me were just human beings being human (almost a palindrome there! ) and not God telling me to go away from Him (which is what it felt like at times). I hope that you have recovered from whatever happened to you and that God directs your heart to whatever is best for you now. Thank you for sharing your thoughts and feelings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I have spent a number of years working in nursing homes & now I work in a hospital. So often I think about the many different personalities that I deal with, not just my patients & their loved ones, but also with my co-workers (housekeepers, doctors, nurses, lab people, ward clerks). So many different ways to see the same thing! So many different ways to do something! And how I have learned the art of negotiation...I have learned to pick & chose my battles (& trust me, there is alot that is simply not worth losing sleep over! ) And so often I think, monastery living must be awfully similar to all of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1320322816' post='2330738'] I have spent a number of years working in nursing homes & now I work in a hospital. So often I think about the many different personalities that I deal with, not just my patients & their loved ones, but also with my co-workers (housekeepers, doctors, nurses, lab people, ward clerks). So many different ways to see the same thing! So many different ways to do something! And how I have learned the art of negotiation...I have learned to pick & chose my battles (& trust me, there is alot that is simply not worth losing sleep over! ) And so often I think, monastery living must be awfully similar to all of this. [/quote] Good point brandelynmarie - 'SIMILAR' is the key word though - not the same. I have worked as a nurse, teacher, foster parent, department chair, horse trainer etc etc etc.... and I agree with what you say about learning when to fight the battles and when to let them go .... BUT ..... and here is the key, in the world you can go home... you don't LIVE with the ones who are hostile (haters gonna hate seems to be a favourite quote from Isaiah around here) or the ones who simply are hard to get along with. I have two very hostile workers with me at the elderly hostel where I work now. It is hard, but I can always go home at the end of a shift. I can post on here about how tough it is. I can have a glass of wine or a cup of tea to soothe my ruffled feelings. I can talk to my boss or my priest or my friends and they can tell me I'm right and make me feel better. The point is that I can do something. In the monastery, one does not go running to the superior or NM to complain about how they are being treated, and even if they do finally break down and ask for help, sometimes they are told that St Therese was able to cope with unpleasant people and it made her a saint, or that God is using the other person to 'smooth out the rough edges' or that we must 'put love where there is no love'... but there is no escape. No TV. No cell phones to call friends or family. No hot drink or cold drink or glass of wine whenever needed.... no comfort food, no sleeping to recover or long hot showers.... I am not complaining here - believe me I have lived through it all. I am merely stating fact. There IS a difference between coping in the world with difficult people and coping in a monastery with difficult people and or situations. And what if the difficult person is the superior? In the world you can quit your job but are you going to leave the monastery because of the superior? The thing is that one has to look at things supernaturally in the convent, not from the human perspective, one must see God's hand in all things and one must strive to be better than one probably is naturally. So it is harder. All the negotiation skills in the world don't substitute for trust in God's strength and not our own. In fact, being proud of one's skills and abilities is a SURE way to get tested because we are not in charge once we hand over the reins of our life to God. Write that blank cheque (check) and don't be surprised if God fills in an amount that you couldn't possibly imagine!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying - you can't compare apples and oranges, skills at living in the world with the surrender needed to live in a monastery. Only living it can really make it clear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='brandelynmarie' timestamp='1320322816' post='2330738'] I have spent a number of years working in nursing homes & now I work in a hospital. So often I think about the many different personalities that I deal with, not just my patients & their loved ones, but also with my co-workers (housekeepers, doctors, nurses, lab people, ward clerks). So many different ways to see the same thing! So many different ways to do something! And how I have learned the art of negotiation...I have learned to pick & chose my battles (& trust me, there is alot that is simply not worth losing sleep over! ) And so often I think, monastery living must be awfully similar to all of this. [/quote] Yes, I think so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Deus, I sympathise - I have [i]exactly[/i] the same anxieties about entering my monastery. I am an incurable 'what if-er' Everybody else's advice is really good! As for me I don't know if I have what it takes. I'd like to think so, but I also know what living with me is like and just how lazy, impatient and lukewarm I can be. Right now, whenever that little demon of 'what if' comes whispering in my ear, I try to remember that the two people I trust spiritually most in the world, my confessor and my future abbess, think it's worth letting me have a go. This gives me hope because my confessor knows precisely what's wrong with me, and my abbess is seasoned with 40+ years of seeing women come and go, and not given to sentimentality, but still thinks I should test the life. So, what I do is read all the wonderful encouragement on places like this and keep my fingers crossed. I'll be praying for you - please pray for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1320324037' post='2330744'] Good point brandelynmarie - 'SIMILAR' is the key word though - not the same. I have worked as a nurse, teacher, foster parent, department chair, horse trainer etc etc etc.... and I agree with what you say about learning when to fight the battles and when to let them go .... BUT ..... and here is the key, in the world you can go home... you don't LIVE with the ones who are hostile (haters gonna hate seems to be a favourite quote from Isaiah around here) or the ones who simply are hard to get along with. I have two very hostile workers with me at the elderly hostel where I work now. It is hard, but I can always go home at the end of a shift. I can post on here about how tough it is. I can have a glass of wine or a cup of tea to soothe my ruffled feelings. I can talk to my boss or my priest or my friends and they can tell me I'm right and make me feel better. The point is that I can do something. In the monastery, one does not go running to the superior or NM to complain about how they are being treated, and even if they do finally break down and ask for help, sometimes they are told that St Therese was able to cope with unpleasant people and it made her a saint, or that God is using the other person to 'smooth out the rough edges' or that we must 'put love where there is no love'... but there is no escape. No TV. No cell phones to call friends or family. No hot drink or cold drink or glass of wine whenever needed.... no comfort food, no sleeping to recover or long hot showers.... I am not complaining here - believe me I have lived through it all. I am merely stating fact. There IS a difference between coping in the world with difficult people and coping in a monastery with difficult people and or situations. And what if the difficult person is the superior? In the world you can quit your job but are you going to leave the monastery because of the superior? The thing is that one has to look at things supernaturally in the convent, not from the human perspective, one must see God's hand in all things and one must strive to be better than one probably is naturally. So it is harder. All the negotiation skills in the world don't substitute for trust in God's strength and not our own. In fact, being proud of one's skills and abilities is a SURE way to get tested because we are not in charge once we hand over the reins of our life to God. Write that blank cheque (check) and don't be surprised if God fills in an amount that you couldn't possibly imagine!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying - you can't compare apples and oranges, skills at living in the world with the surrender needed to live in a monastery. Only living it can really make it clear. [/quote] Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernadette d Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1320324037' post='2330744'] Good point brandelynmarie - 'SIMILAR' is the key word though - not the same. I have worked as a nurse, teacher, foster parent, department chair, horse trainer etc etc etc.... and I agree with what you say about learning when to fight the battles and when to let them go .... BUT ..... and here is the key, in the world you can go home... you don't LIVE with the ones who are hostile (haters gonna hate seems to be a favourite quote from Isaiah around here) or the ones who simply are hard to get along with. I have two very hostile workers with me at the elderly hostel where I work now. It is hard, but I can always go home at the end of a shift. I can post on here about how tough it is. I can have a glass of wine or a cup of tea to soothe my ruffled feelings. I can talk to my boss or my priest or my friends and they can tell me I'm right and make me feel better. The point is that I can do something. In the monastery, one does not go running to the superior or NM to complain about how they are being treated, and even if they do finally break down and ask for help, sometimes they are told that St Therese was able to cope with unpleasant people and it made her a saint, or that God is using the other person to 'smooth out the rough edges' or that we must 'put love where there is no love'... but there is no escape. No TV. No cell phones to call friends or family. No hot drink or cold drink or glass of wine whenever needed.... no comfort food, no sleeping to recover or long hot showers.... I am not complaining here - believe me I have lived through it all. I am merely stating fact. There IS a difference between coping in the world with difficult people and coping in a monastery with difficult people and or situations. And what if the difficult person is the superior? In the world you can quit your job but are you going to leave the monastery because of the superior? The thing is that one has to look at things supernaturally in the convent, not from the human perspective, one must see God's hand in all things and one must strive to be better than one probably is naturally. So it is harder. All the negotiation skills in the world don't substitute for trust in God's strength and not our own. In fact, being proud of one's skills and abilities is a SURE way to get tested because we are not in charge once we hand over the reins of our life to God. Write that blank cheque (check) and don't be surprised if God fills in an amount that you couldn't possibly imagine!!!!!!!!! I'm just saying - you can't compare apples and oranges, skills at living in the world with the surrender needed to live in a monastery. Only living it can really make it clear. [/quote] Wow! I just think that is so amazingly put! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TeresaBenedicta Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 This question has been on my heart for quite a while now... Do I have what it takes? No. I don't. That is simple enough of an answer... and I feel it deep down inside. I [i]don't[/i] have what it takes- not on my own. Not with my own will. These past few weeks I've had to rely on God's grace merely to wake up in the mornings... sometimes it even felt as though I needed His grace just to breath properly! The difficulty is the temptation to think that I [i]do[/i] have what it takes. I'm a strong-willed person. I know how to fight for success. That was drilled into me from my childhood... But now is the time to remember that I am nothing and without God I can hope to do nothing. It's not about succeeding. In some ways, it's not even about perseverance. It's about abandoning yourself into His loving arms, begging and trusting in His grace and love, and then doing all things in that grace and love. Love and then do what you will, as St. Augustine says. You go, you try, you abandon yourself to God...and then you accept all things that happen as His will for you... whether it is that you stay or you leave. For my own part, I beg each day for grace. I beg each night for grace. Seems like all I do anymore is beg for His grace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutureCarmeliteClaire Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I would like to think that I have what it takes, but I doubt I do... yet, that is. I have been reading Imitation of Christ and it talks about not putting your whole self or all your trust into other humans. By slowly detaching yourself from the things of this world, I think it will help you prepare. On several occasions I have completely melted down and sobbed to think of leaving my family and my dearest friends. After two times of having that happen to me, I realized the truth, and my Confirmation sponsor helped me realize the truth as well. I am not leaving tomorrow and not for at least 5 years (I am 13). My sponsor told me that I HAVE to do this gradually because I cannot and will not leave everything all at once, I have to leave some things before I enter. Right now I am working out the basics, discerning different communities (I found one that I am head over heels in love with ), I am getting an SD, I am making frequent Confessions, doing more prayers, and trying to get myself up earlier. Just little things that could help in the long run, and throughout the next 5 years I will be slowly detaching myself from the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1320329189' post='2330775'] This question has been on my heart for quite a while now... Do I have what it takes? No. I don't. That is simple enough of an answer... and I feel it deep down inside. I [i]don't[/i] have what it takes- not on my own. Not with my own will. These past few weeks I've had to rely on God's grace merely to wake up in the mornings... sometimes it even felt as though I needed His grace just to breath properly! The difficulty is the temptation to think that I [i]do[/i] have what it takes. I'm a strong-willed person. I know how to fight for success. That was drilled into me from my childhood... But now is the time to remember that I am nothing and without God I can hope to do nothing. It's not about succeeding. In some ways, it's not even about perseverance. It's about abandoning yourself into His loving arms, begging and trusting in His grace and love, and then doing all things in that grace and love. Love and then do what you will, as St. Augustine says. You go, you try, you abandon yourself to God...and then you accept all things that happen as His will for you... whether it is that you stay or you leave. For my own part, I beg each day for grace. I beg each night for grace. Seems like all I do anymore is beg for His grace. [/quote] Yes, this is where I am at...only at the very beginning.Wherever He leads me, however He leads me, I will do my best to follow. With His grace, I will be willing to take the next step. [quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1320332606' post='2330789'] I would like to think that I have what it takes, but I doubt I do... yet, that is. I have been reading Imitation of Christ and it talks about not putting your whole self or all your trust into other humans. By slowly detaching yourself from the things of this world, I think it will help you prepare. On several occasions I have completely melted down and sobbed to think of leaving my family and my dearest friends. After two times of having that happen to me, I realized the truth, and my Confirmation sponsor helped me realize the truth as well. I am not leaving tomorrow and not for at least 5 years (I am 13). My sponsor told me that I HAVE to do this gradually because I cannot and will not leave everything all at once, I have to leave some things before I enter. Right now I am working out the basics, discerning different communities (I found one that I am head over heels in love with ), I am getting an SD, I am making frequent Confessions, doing more prayers, and trying to get myself up earlier. Just little things that could help in the long run, and throughout the next 5 years I will be slowly detaching myself from the world. [/quote] 'Atta girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 This is a great thread... I think that one of the ways to prepare is maybe being really open to God's will so that you prefer what He prefers, - what He wants, not what you want. Especially if there are uncertainties (am I called to religious life? Is it this order? will I stay there? etc), that's a great opportunity to blindly surrender more to God's will, though it is yet unknown. If we put His will first in everything, then maybe it would be easier to do this if you're in a convent and feel lonely, or have to deal with difficult situations, sisters whose personality clashes with yours, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 (edited) [quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1320284331' post='2330576'] One of the nuns at my last Carmel was a choir nun for 20 years when her elderly Jewish mother took sick. She left the convent to care for her until her death - and during those years her mother converted to Catholicism. Then this lovely woman asked to return to the convent and they said yes, but only as an extern. She accepted this and is still there today. She never knew her vocation would take this path.... but she did what she felt called to do in all cases. And she helped me a lot while I was there.[/quote] That is great that her mother converted wow! I was wondering though.. if it's okay to ask this question.. if a sister who has taken final vows leaves the convent in this way, (ie: if she has to), - are her vows still in place? Is she still a sister just not in the community? Or is it like she becomes a lay person in the world again? Edited November 3, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AccountDeleted Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 [quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1320359871' post='2330952'] That is great that her mother converted wow! I was wondering though.. if it's okay to ask this question.. if a sister who has taken final vows leaves the convent in this way, (ie: if she has to), - are her vows still in place? Is she still a sister just not in the community? Or is it like she becomes a lay person in the world again? [/quote] If she leaves for a short time and with permission of her superior and Bishop, then she can be 'exclaustrated' for up to three years. If she has to leave permanently (as the sister in my story thought she did) then her vows are annuled. She is not 'laicised' since she is already laity - only priests are not laity. Depending on the community, if she returns after her vows have been suspended, then she may have to repeat some formation time, but she will have to make new vows. At least this is what happened to this nun.[quote name='TeresaBenedicta' timestamp='1320329189' post='2330775'] This question has been on my heart for quite a while now... Do I have what it takes? No. I don't. That is simple enough of an answer... and I feel it deep down inside. I [i]don't[/i] have what it takes- not on my own. Not with my own will. These past few weeks I've had to rely on God's grace merely to wake up in the mornings... sometimes it even felt as though I needed His grace just to breath properly! The difficulty is the temptation to think that I [i]do[/i] have what it takes. I'm a strong-willed person. I know how to fight for success. That was drilled into me from my childhood... But now is the time to remember that I am nothing and without God I can hope to do nothing. It's not about succeeding. In some ways, it's not even about perseverance. It's about abandoning yourself into His loving arms, begging and trusting in His grace and love, and then doing all things in that grace and love. Love and then do what you will, as St. Augustine says. You go, you try, you abandon yourself to God...and then you accept all things that happen as His will for you... whether it is that you stay or you leave. For my own part, I beg each day for grace. I beg each night for grace. Seems like all I do anymore is beg for His grace. [/quote] Absolutely beautiful TB. thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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