Lay Orders

[let_go_let_God]

I was talking with a friend a while ago and she mentioned that she was a lay Franciscan. I am not familiar with lay orders at all and am wondering what they are all about and are their different kinds?

God bless-
LGLG

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I know there are lay Carmelites, Dominicans, Franciscans, Benedictines, etc.

I also know that there are tertiaries, although I'm not sure what the difference is between the two. Maybe one of our church scholars knows...

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

http://www.milesjesu.com/index.html This is a "lay order", but they live in a community together, so it is different from the lay 3rd order Franciscan, Carmelites, etc.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

[quote name='FutureCarmeliteClaire' timestamp='1322597214' post='2342220']
[url="http://www.milesjesu.com/index.html"]http://www.milesjesu.com/index.html[/url] This is a "lay order", but they live in a community together, so it is different from the lay 3rd order Franciscan, Carmelites, etc.
[/quote]
Oh, and I put the Miles Jesu people because I am friends with some women from the order, and they are amazing, amazing women who helped me re-discover my vocation.

[krissylou]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' timestamp='1322594341' post='2342199']
I was talking with a friend a while ago and she mentioned that she was a lay Franciscan. I am not familiar with lay orders at all and am wondering what they are all about and are their different kinds?

God bless-
LGLG
[/quote]

Aha! I've looked in to some of these.

There are a lot of slightly different categories of people who live "in the world" with various sorts of connections to communities.

Oblates are affiliated with a monastery (usually Benedictine, but not necessarily). They are affiliated with a particular monastery -- an oblate of St. Meinrad Archabbey, for instance, rather than being a "freefloating" Benedictine Oblate. There have been "oblates" since roughly forever, although they may have meant slightly different things. E.g. I think at times there used to be oblates who lived in the monastery and had quite a monastic life, but without taking vows. The Whitesville Passionists have an oblate in this sense. I don't know this, but I will bet a cookie she was interested in entering as a Sister but due to age or something that wasn't in the cards. She largely does what we might think of an extern sister doing, lives in the monastery, but doesn't wear a habit and isn't addressed as "Sister" and makes her commitment for a year at a time. But that sort of situation is rare. Usually they live in the world like anyone else but are particularly formed by the Rule of Benedict (or if it's not a Benedictine monastery, the appropriate Rule and Constitutions) in ways suitable to their station in life.

The philosophy behind oblates is a little different from all the other ones. Oblates are all about drawing people IN to the spiritual life of the monastery, in various ways that are real and important, but less than being a monk or nun. Centripetal force.

All the others are about pouring the charism OUT into the world through lay members. Centrifugal force. Sure a Friar or a Sister is out and engaged in the world in ways that contemplative monks and nuns are not, but still. The laity can really seep into the world and bring the charism with them. This is all to the good.

Franciscans, Carmelites, Dominicans have had lay members for a long long time. Possibly forever. (The first Rule for Secular Franciscans was written by Francis. I don't know if the Carmelites and Dominicans go back THAT far, but they go back quite far indeed.) They are sometimes referred to as "third orders" or "Tertiaries"-- with the friars as the First Order, the nuns as the Second Order, and laity as Third Order. Active sisters are technically also part of this. But that's old language and it's more common to talk about "secular" Franciscans or Carmelites or whatever now.

Franciscans will tell you at great length that the Order of Secular Franciscans is in a different canonical category than the Dominicans or Carmelites or anything else. This seems extremely important to them. I could never understand what the difference is or why it matters.

Zelie Martin (and possibly her husband too? I'm not sure) was a Secular Franciscan. This is some (joking) embarrassment to Carmelites -- why wasn't she a secular Carmelite? But ah well, they can share.

These are official things, with an extended formation process that is similar to the consecrated religious, with postulancy, novitiate, temporary professed and then perpetual profession. They make "promises" rather than "vows," but still. It's a big deal, expected to be a lifetime commitment. There is generally an expectation to pray the Divine Office regularly. Secular Carmelites, for instance, are expected to do a half hour of mental prayer every day (on top of the Divine Office, and maybe daily Mass).

Then there are secular institutes -- sometimes these people live in community, sometimes they live independently -- where they profess the Evangelical Counsels (poverty, chastity, obedience) and are considered consecrated, but are consecrated laypeople. Generally "chastity" is understood as "celibacy" but there is at least one secular institute (Holy Family Institute) for married couples.

At least some of these forms go back forever. After Vatican II there was a lot more interest in lay orders, lay movements, lay affiliations, etc etc etc. This was strongly encouraged by John Paul II.

Over the last decades, many communities which did not traditionally have a Third Order have developed "associates" -- which are more or less the same idea. "Associates" do not have a formal canonical status. For some people this matters tremendously and they're much more interested in lay affiliations that are a formal canonical thing. For others it does not matter a whit. There is generally some formation process but it's usually shorter (a year or so, on average) and commitments are frequently made for a year at a time. The expectations of "Associates" can vary tremendously from community to community. Sometimes it's largely a faith sharing group -- which is a fine and good thing! Sometimes there is a lot more integration into the life and mission of the community. This is also a good thing -- but it's a different thing.

Many communities of "associates" (and many communites of "oblates") include some non-Catholic Christians (although every one I've seen is overwhelmingly Catholic, which only makes sense). I think (but could be mistaken) that tertiaries are going to be Catholics-only. Secular institutes are definitely going to be Catholics-only.

I used to think I should figure out what all the different canonical categories were and as I was looking at particular lay communities I would place them along that spectrum. I quickly figured out "that way madness lies." It worked much better for me to realize "there are a whole bunch of different categories that are essentially quite similar but have some differences" and then look at what being a lay affiliate meant FOR THIS PARTICULAR COMMUNITY.

[CatherineM]

I highly recommend [url="http://www.madonnahouse.org/"]http://www.madonnahouse.org/[/url]

[let_go_let_God]

krissylou,

Most of what you mentioned is that men and women who are part of these lay orders are the single laity. What about the married laity. I know men have the opportunity to become permanent deacons but what about women? Are their lay orders that allow married women in their ranks.

Side note one: Our associate pastor is a former monk from St. Meinrad's.

Side note two: CttC and I joke about how he'd be a Carmelite and I'd probably be a Dominican.

God bless-
LGLG

[krissylou]

[quote name='let_go_let_God' timestamp='1322767238' post='2343249']
krissylou,

Most of what you mentioned is that men and women who are part of these lay orders are the single laity. What about the married laity. I know men have the opportunity to become permanent deacons but what about women? Are their lay orders that allow married women in their ranks.

[/quote]

Secular Institutes are usually for single laity -- although the Holy Family Institute is an honest-to-goodness-people-are-consecrated secular institute for married laity. (It is also open to the widowed, but never-married single people need not apply.)

Secular institutes tend to be relatively small, I think.

Secular Franciscans, Secular Carmelites, Dominican Tertiaries, Benedictine Oblates, etc., these are all for married people. Or single people can join too, there's no REQUIREMENT that you be married, but most people tend to be married. (And if you join when you are single, you are perfectly free to subsequently marry!)

(Note: sometimes, following their perpetual profession, Secular Carmelites will discern that they are called to make vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Maybe others do too, but I've heard about this particularly with regard to Carmelites. This is understood as CHASTITY not CELIBACY. (Faithful married people are chaste.) If they're already married this does not mean they are entering into a Josephite marriage. If they become widowed they are free to remarry. If they make these vows while single they are free to marry. I suppose someone may also make private vows of celibacy but that's different.)

[AnneLine]

[font=Arial]I think Krissylou has given a very good summary of this, but I want to add a little to the discussion. [/font]

This is what I tell people about this topic when people are inquiring about our Community. Getting this terminology straight will really help with your discernment.

The first question when anyone thinks God is calling them needs to be - am I called to live out a certain 'charism' or spirituality? Each of us is different -- and God has graced us with gifts and charisms that are intended to be used for the good of the Church. It only makes sense that people with similar gifts and interests choose to come together -- to support each other and work together. Those form the 'charisms' of a particular religious tradition. Not everyone in that community has those gifts - but they are at the heart of what that community does for God. Generally Benedictines are associated with prayer, work and hospitality; Carmelites with contemplative prayer and a prophetic tradition; Dominicans focus their lives toward prayer, study and preaching; Franciscans live lives of poverty and simplicity and serving the poor, etc. The list goes on and on and on! Many of the more 'modern' communities (those in the last 400 years…) also have charisms and traditions that draw people toward their vision.

Depending on the Order or Community, the groups that are for laity may be called Oblates, Secular Orders, Laity, Third Orders or Tertiaries (from the Latin for [i]third[/i]) or Associates. All are pretty much the same kind of thing, although some are more structured and/or have more formation available than others. Some people want or NEED more or less of those incidentals. This is part of the flexibility that is a key with most lay orders. They are designed for people who need that flexibility or find it helpful to do the things God asks from them. That is why sometimes that flexibility can make this lifestyle possible for those who don't fit well into a more structured lifestyle... but this third orders are NOT a dumping ground for those who can't 'make it' in religious life by any means! One needs a vocation to make this work.

[b][i]Oblates [/i][/b]is the term that generally is used by monastic communities. These started with St. Benedict. I am fairly sure that Oblates are attached to a specific monastery or convent, just as monks are vowed to a particular house; that attachment may mean you need to live near a community, but some are pioneering provisions for connections thorough internet, etc. I think the lifestyle is similar to that of the third order groups, but more focused on integrating prayer and work and hospitality--there Is that Benedictine charism. I don't know as much about oblates and would love to know more.

[b][i]Third Order [/i][/b]type groups come out of the mendicant ("beggar") communities (Franciscans, Dominicans, Carmelites, Augustinians and Servites -- anyone else?) . Unlike earlier monastic tradition, these communities weren't bound to a monastery or abbey, because their members were called to be free to move around and preach and teach and do whatever the charism of their community needed them to do. They were allowed to beg for what they needed, and tended to live simple, more charismatic lifestyles that stemmed from and helped them to live out their charisms. These groups are not better, not worse, just different from monks.

Enter St. Francis of Assisi. St. Francis and the men who followed him lived the Franciscan charism radically, in community and under vows. This developed into the 'first' way of being Franciscan--as a [i]friar [/i]('brother'). When St. Clare joined him, she and her followers became the nucleus of what would be the cloistered Poor Clare [i]nuns[/i] - the 'second' way of being Franciscan. They live out the Franciscan Charism, too, but in a very different lifestyle--as enclosed nuns--a very different thing!

Many people wanted to follow Francis and Clare but for various reasons could not live either of those radical lifestyles. Francis was especially concerned when he learned that there were married couples considering leaving each other after discerning the call to follow Francis. Now Francis was the ultimate 'out of the box' kind of guy -- and he said that there had to be a way for people to live out his vision without abandoning their spouses.... and he developed the 'third' way of being Franciscan. All he asked of those called to this third style of being Franciscan was live simply and prayerfully and at peace with all, make a will and refuse to take up arms. That doesn't sound like much, but Franciscan tertiaries would change Europe radically by living that very flexible lifestyle. Many of the great people of the Renaissance were Franciscan!

Other mendicant orders began to develop lay branches as well; Catherine of Siena was a Dominican tertiary. Eventually some of those lay people would choose to live together in a 'regular' (ordered) lifestyle and they became the apostolic and contemplative-active religious communities that are affiliated with the mendicant orders (Franciscan, Dominican, Carmelite Sisters and Brothers of many different types.). They are called 'Third Order Regular' to distinguish them from the lay tertiaries. They are NOT bound to cloister and they do carry on an active ministry in addition to their communal lifestyle and prayer lives. Again, another option.

But the original impetus of being part of that a 'third' style of living out one of those traditions in the world - - married or single -- has never gone away… and that is what the Lay/Secular orders are. A hundred years ago these were more like a sodality or prayer group, but with the increased understanding of the role of the laity that came out of Vatican II, these groups have really been able to come into their own right in the last 40 years. Increasingly we see ourselves -- and are seen -- as members of the Order who are called to live out the Order's charism in the world. We are called to make the world a sacred, holy place. This is not a second (or third) class way of living out an Order's charism -- it is just [i]different[/i]! We are the witness that God does not forget anyone… and that He sends people to serve him in many many ways. We can carry out the Orders' missions in places and ways that priests, nuns, and even active sisters and brothers cannot. God doesn’t' waste anything--He is the ultimate recycler!

[b][i]Associates[/i][/b] are kind of like oblates that are attached to the modern religious congregations (i.e., more like Oblates than Tertiaries). If you are attracted to the mission and work of one of those modern communities, an Associate vocation can be a wonderful thing! Many communities have associate options - including the Daughters of Charity, the Salesians, the Visitation Nuns and the Christian Brothers! Check on a community's website to see if they have this option -- an if it isn't there, maybe it needs to be!!!!

[b][i]Secular Institutes[/i][/b] are DIFFERENT from the third order groups or the oblates or the associates -- they are more like a call to be a religious who lives by his- or herself. They are more akin to the Consecrated Hermit and Consecrated Virgin options. There is some connection to a community--but not as much as with an active religious who lives by herself but has a community. Discerning a Secular Institute can be a good way to go if you are called to make vows of celibacy but don't feel called to live in community... again, I don't know as much about this, but I know enough to know it is a very different thing from a secular order.

Hope this helps!

Edited December 1, 2011 by AnneLine

[EWIE]

[color=#800000][size=4][b]I believe that John Paul 11 was a Secular Discalced Carmelite. [/b][/size][/color]

[DameAgnes]

Well, here is a story about a Dominican tertiary

http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Such-Love-Is-Seldom-Seen-Pat-McNamara-12-06-2011.html

[CatherineM]

I have two friends who are 3rd orders with the Ursulines. One just got married, so I don't know if she gets to continue with it or not.

[let_go_let_God]

I am interested in potentially finding an order, but it feels odd to be discerning it as a married woman. Cttc is quite supportive of this and wants me to explore possibilities, but I'm just kinda stumped at the moment as to where to go. I am currently without a SD and am a bit intimidated to talk to my "boss" about it. I also know that it's a stupid excuse and I am just being generally stupid.

God bless-
LGLG

[Lisa]

Just like discerning a religious order, maybe start by looking at the major spiritualities and your interests/way of prayer. God uses the gifts he gave you. Since you don't have a SD, maybe you could talk to Cttc about it, and sit down and look at how you love God and pray on a daily basis. If you feel called to apostolic works, maybe the Dominicans are for you. Being a secular Carmelite allows you to participate in their contemplative live a little bit.

Here's my understanding, and some links for the big 3:
For the Dominicans: [url="http://www.domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Laity.htm"]http://www.domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Laity.htm[/url] or [url="http://www.domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Associates.htm"]http://www.domlife.org/BeingDominican/WhoWeAre/Associates.htm[/url]
The Lay Dominicans take part in more active ministry of preaching the truth (in whatever form that takes), and make promises. They follow a Rule of Life (specially for Lay members of the Dominican family). Typically these have strong community aspects and are connected with the friars. The Associates seem less formal; they sort of "help" with the mission, meeting less frequently with a vowed member, maybe a Lay Dom. or an Active Sister.

Secular franciscans: [url="http://www.nafra-sfo.org/sforule.html"]http://www.nafra-sfo.org/sforule.html[/url] and [url="http://www.nafra-sfo.org/is_god_calling.html"]http://www.nafra-sfo.org/is_god_calling.html[/url]. They secular franciscans try to live the charisms of St. Francis, including striving for peace. The formation process is about 3 years, it looks like.

The carmelites: [url="http://www.carmelite.com/seculars/default.cfm?loadref=50"]http://www.carmelite.com/seculars/default.cfm?loadref=50[/url] This is from Australia, but had really good information about it. Just like the Cloistered Carmelites, their life isn't about "doing" something in particularly, but growing closer to God (as all the orders are, of course). They may commit to certain amounts of silent prayer, read the Carmelite spiritual writers, etc.

All of them seem to have at least some emphasis on taking part daily in the Church's liturgy (Mass and LOTH, I presume).

[MithLuin]

[b]LGLG[/b], you're not being stupid at all! It is a very daunting thing to consider, 'where to start?'

A (possibly obvious) answer is to look for religious communities that are nearby to you. You can just visit for mass or to check out the gift shop or something very low key and innocuous.

Then, if they have an oblate or 3rd order associated with them, you can look into information and maybe attend a meeting to find out more. If it's for you, great! If not...keep looking.

If you become an oblate to a Benedictine monastery that is 'long distance,' you won't be able to participate in much at the monastery (perhaps apart from a once-annual visit). So, that might be a big commitment to make with a family, and not as fruitful of an interaction as you were looking for. So...I would recommend starting local.

I wish you the best! And...maybe you'll be able to find something that your husband can participate in, too. That might be helpful for both of you. (Just a thought)




Oh, and [url=http://www.laycisterciansofgethsemani.org/]Lay Cistercians[/url] exist, too! They're called Associates, but are probably more like Benedictine Oblates.

Edited December 7, 2011 by MithLuin