How Should Those Discerning, Feel About Marriage?

[MarysLittleFlower]

I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this right, but.. this is just a random question. If someone is discerning religious life, how should they feel about marriage? I don't mean marriage in general, but marriage as a possible vocation for them. Should they be very open to it, is that a good sign, or is it a bad sign to not really wish for it? I [b]don't[/b] mean for reasons like: commitment fears, past hurts, career issues, simply not wanting a family, etc. Is it true that those who have a religious vocation, also really want marriage? (beyond being open to God's will).

thank you

Edited December 30, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[AudreyGrace]

When you consider that all men are called to fatherhood and all women to motherhood, one should start off being open to both married and religious lives. It's a question of whether or not God is asking one to fill our her motherhood spiritually (religious life) or physically (marriage and motherhood). If you pick apart the vocations, they are very similar. Both are how one will achieve holiness, both require self-sacrifice, seeking a relationship with God first and foremost, and bringing others to Him. The only thing different is how they go about doing so.

Someone once told me that it isn't prudent to "stick to" one vocation without first loving the other. After all, how can we be totally open to God's will if we are still so partial ourselves? Sure, it's natural to have our likes, dislikes, and desires, but part of serving God is putting His desires above our own. If we strive for this, He will make His desires known to our hearts and turn them into our desires as well.

In my opinion, I think that as Catholics we should love all the vocations God provides His people with. Granted that ordained men may have the special call to do God's work in an extraordinary way, no one vocation is holier than the other. A nun once told me that if God was calling me to marriage and I became a nun (or vice versa), I would never be as holy as God originally intended me to be. We all have different calls to holiness. Like the Litany of Humility prays, "That others may become holier than I,[i] provided that I become as holy as I should[/i]."

[AccountDeleted]

[quote name='MarysLittleFlower' timestamp='1325228861' post='2359883']
I'm not sure if I'm phrasing this right, but.. this is just a random question. If someone is discerning religious life, how should they feel about marriage? I don't mean marriage in general, but marriage as a possible vocation for them. Should they be very open to it, is that a good sign, or is it a bad sign to not really wish for it? [/quote]

I am going to disagree with a lot of people here because I have wasted most of my life in NOT discerning a religious vocation. If you believe that you have a call to religious life then (IMO) you should pursue that with every fibre of being and forget all about married life. There are plenty of people answering God's call to marriage and motherhood/fatherhood, but very few (in comparison) actually hearing the call to religious life. And as dUSt pointed out on another thread, it is easier to get distracted and led into marriage, than it is to actually pursue religious life. So if you do believe that you have been called, don't mess around. You may not 'lose your vocation' but you may lose the opportunity to pursue the vocation of religious life. I speak from years of experience. At this point in my life I may or may not end up as a nun, but I wish I had persevered with my discernment when I was first called at age 25.

[quote]
I [b]don't[/b] mean for reasons like: commitment fears, past hurts, career issues, simply not wanting a family, etc. Is it true that those who have a religious vocation, also really want marriage? (beyond being open to God's will).

thank you
[/quote]

It is great to be open to the concept of marriage and not to fear it or physical intimacy or commitment (which one faces in religious life anyway) or to be seeking religious life as an escape or romantic fantasy or any reason other than believing that God is calling you to this state of life. But not everyone who chooses religious life wants to be married. Many saints rejected that state strenously. It wasn't the state of life they objected to, it was that state of life for themselves! Look at the saints who almost disfigured themselves to become unattractive to suitors when their families pressed them to marry.

It is so hard to keep the flame of vocation (for RL) alive for most of us because we are not born saints and we get distracted easily by the attractions of the natural human states. It is self-denial to choose religious life. That is not always attractive.

You will get a lot of conflicting advice here perhaps, because no one wants to be un-PC. The slogan right now seems to be 'married life is the same as religious life'. It isn't. Married life is great, holy, sacramental and many wonderful things. But it is not the same as religious life. And RL is a 'higher calling' in the eyes of the Church. And fewer are called to it.

But all I can say is pray about it very hard. Not everyone is called to religious life - are you one who is? If so, you are blessed.

[Lil'Nun]

I can't speak for anyone else, just myself, but I think marriage is a beautiful state. However, after many years of thought and introspection I know it is not my vocation. If it should be that I am not called to religious life then I am certain I will remain single, maybe within a third order or secular association, maybe not.
But I do think marriage can be a wonderful and glorious vocation.

[Strictlyinkblot]

This time last year I was convinced I was going to meet 'the perfect man', get married and have lots of babies. Well, I met the perfect man alright, he just happened to be Jesus. There is a story that one of the popes (don't ask me which one) after his election (hope that's the right word) went to show his mother is papal ring. She answered 'That's a beautiful ring but that wouldn't exist without this one' and held up her wedding ring.

We need families to raise the future crop of priest and religious and we need priests and religious to pray for and minister to families. I'm not enough of a theologian to argue that religious life is a higher state, I'll leave it to others more knowledgeable then me. I do believe, however that the different vocations are dependent on each other. Of course vocations come from families that are not grounded in Faith and of course people get married in an attempt to avoid the call to religious life but it is certainly easier for those discerning when they come from religious, faith-filled families.

[Cherie]

[quote name='nunsense' timestamp='1325234426' post='2359900']
So if you do believe that you have been called, don't mess around. You may not 'lose your vocation' but you may lose the opportunity to pursue the vocation of religious life.
[/quote]

I absolutely agree with this. If you believe you have a religious vocation, don't worry about discerning marriage right now. Put your entire focus into religious life. If God has other plans for you, they will be made manifest; until then, focus on religious life. The devil hates religious and does all he can to distract them from their vocation, or to encourage lack of perseverance once they get there. Prayer, prayer, prayer ... And the guidance of a good spiritual director and Novice Mistress are wonderful, God-given aides.

I think there may have been some confusion started on the other thread regarding marriage and religious life.

Religious life IS a higher calling. Saying that doesn't mean that marriage is "bad" or "not holy", it's simply stating what is true. There are many theological reasons why. We had entire COURSES in formation discussing why this is true and in what ways. Religious freely CHOOSE to give up their will in obedience: our free will, which is a great gift (the greatest, in many ways) God bestowed to humankind. St. Paul explains it simply: virgins (ie religious) are concerned with the things of God, but married women are necessarily concerned with the things of the world. Religious are living NOW what all will be living in Heaven. There are some beautiful books out there that expound it so much better than I could here; part of my recommended reading list for those discerning religious life is the book, "...And You Are Christ's" by Fr. Thomas Dubay. He covers this question; I highly recommend you read it!

Most people are naturally attracted to marriage or, especially for women, the idea of having children. Our novice mistress had many discussions with us on how that desire can be used, by God's grace, to make religious beautiful, effective spiritual mothers for God's honor and glory; but by the same token, it can be a serious temptation in religious life. Many religious and Superiors have said the best religious would also make good husbands, wives, fathers, and mothers; I think part of why they say that is to acknowledge that just because one might like the thought of marriage or children doesn't necessarily mean they aren't called to religious life!! But rather, the virtues used to make good husbands, wives, etc. are the same virtues used to make good religious! In different ways, maybe, but the point isn't that you should have discerned marriage as equally as you did religious life, but that you should not be dismayed or distracted from your religious vocation if you find you like the idea of marriage or having children.

My 2 cents on that, anyway. It's difficult to write a post on a phone!

[Cherie]

And it's not unusual for many discerners to NOT be attracted to marriage; I seem to think that's the way you feel from your OP. If that stems from unhealthy fear of human sexuality, then that's a different issue that needs to be addressed. But there are plenty of discerners who love the thought of dedicating their entire lives to God and don't feel a particular attraction to being married.

My novice mistress would probably have just given a warning that especially once you are in religious life, those desires could come "out of nowhere" and pose a real temptation for the religious. (Like I said before, there are many temptations that can befall you once you enter religious life! The devil hates religious! Pray daily for perseverance.) It is good to acknowledge that they may occur and if they do, to be very honest and open with your spiritual director and/or novice mistress about them. And to also realize that they are natural and to have them doesn't mean you don't have a religious vocation.

[EmilyAnn]

I don't think there is necessarily a "should" in questions like this. Each person is different and as such each persons calling is different. Some people with religious vocations do not feel a pull towards marriage. Many do feel drawn to marriage as well and that is then a challenge of their discernment and their vocation. And part of any vocation is a desire for that life, there is that element of wanting to lead that life. There isn't a 'right' way to feel about marriage if you have a religious vocation, you cannot help whether you desire it or not.

I can only really speak for myself and I always felt very drawn to marriage. At one point I did think I was called to marriage after considering religious life (my mistake was thinking what I wanted, not what I was called to and I only considered apostolic life). And sometimes I do feel a sorrow that I will not get married and have children. But it's funny, the more I've discerned the less I feel that pull. The more I surrender myself to God's will, the more my desire for religious life increases and the more my desire for marriage decreases. I want religious life so badly, so deeply that it overshadows my draw to marriage. The thing for me was less marriage but more not having children, I felt very strongly a desire for motherhood. But I watched a very beautiful video of young nun who spoke of the same thing and referred to being a mother of souls and that really spoke to me and helped me reconcile that.

I suppose there is a "should" in that we should all recognise the beauty in other vocations, not just the one we ourselves are called to. Religious life is a higher calling, yes that is true but marriage is still a beautiful vocation and a necessary one. We are called to live the life God has planned for us, whether that calling might be and we are all called to live a life of holiness and service to God.

[Feankie]

As for me, I never discerned marriage and was about to enter 3 times. After acquiesing to my parents wishes, I put it off each time in favor of a medical career. My husband and I connected "out of the blue". I was positive I had a religious vocation as I was SOOOO ready 3 times and was accepted each time. But yes indeedy, God had other plans. Not in my wildest dream did I ever think or consider marriage was the right vocation for me. But 39 years and 4 grandchldren later, I can attest that God knew what was best for me. The vocation of religious life and that of a married person (especially for women) is similar, yet totally different. Does that make sense?

[Maggyie]

The advice I always received was to discern one vocation at a time. So when you are discerning religious life, do not date. You should put all your energy into finding out if religious life is your call.

I am of two minds on this, though, because honestly most of the people I know who enter religious life wind up coming back out and either pursuing the single life or marriage. And just as there are some married people who "missed their vocation," there are sadly not a few religious who realized after their vows that they were not called but who stay because of the promises they made. Needless to say they are very unhappy people. I think religious life is easier to romanticize as it's more unfamiliar. This was certainly the case with me. I's easier to be realistic about marriage as we have many examples presented to us, warts and all. So I wonder sometimes if it isn't best to encourage discernment of marriage first, and then religious life. But then we would wind up with even fewer religious perhaps. And a religious vocation really should be preferred, if possible.

It's a sticky wicket.

[Totus Tuus]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1325250751' post='2359930']
And it's not unusual for many discerners to NOT be attracted to marriage; I seem to think that's the way you feel from your OP. If that stems from unhealthy fear of human sexuality, then that's a different issue that needs to be addressed. But there are plenty of discerners who love the thought of dedicating their entire lives to God and don't feel a particular attraction to being married.

My novice mistress would probably have just given a warning that especially once you are in religious life, those desires could come "out of nowhere" and pose a real temptation for the religious. (Like I said before, there are many temptations that can befall you once you enter religious life! The devil hates religious! Pray daily for perseverance.) It is good to acknowledge that they may occur and if they do, to be very honest and open with your spiritual director and/or novice mistress about them. And to also realize that they are natural and to have them doesn't mean you don't have a religious vocation.
[/quote]

This is true. This is how I felt until after I left religious life. I think there will always be an innate longing in us for that since it's biological (I don't think that for me it was a temptation, but it did grow a lot stronger after entering religious life... I viewed it as coming on stronger because I had made a final decision about my life that I wasn't going to go back on), but that longing always paled in comparison to my desire for religious life and never got in the way of my resolve.

[LaPetiteSoeur]

I think marriage is beautiful. That being said, I have no desire to be married, or to have biological children. I love, love, love being an "auntie" to my cousins' and friends' children, but that is all. One SCC told me that she was the same way--she loved being around children, but never had the desire to have her own or be married to a man. She works with children now, but is a religious.

Most (if not all) of my friends are called to marriage. I admire them and pray for perseverance in their vocations, just as they do for me.

I hope this helps MarysLittleFlower!

[MithLuin]

I think that a strong aversion to marriage, or the very idea of having children, sometimes raises red flags. Like, what is the root problem here? Because...it likely would be a problem in religious life, too.

But what is important in vocational discernment is to always be open to the will of God and follow where he leads, no matter how unexpected that journey may be.

There is no 'requirement' that one date prior to entering religious life, so that should make it clear that one need not pursue marriage with any seriousness in order to live out a religious vocation.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Thank you for all the replies! This whole topic has caused confusion/doubt for me. I don't have any problem with children.. I have a teaching degree lol. I also love the idea of being a mother. I don't have a fear of commitment either. It's the part about giving your heart to a spouse (other than Jesus). I'll just speak plainly, I want to belong fully to Him, but it seems like for me, I won't be fully His if I were married. I think if someone is called to marriage, they wouldn't have this problem, they would be able to be married yet be close to Jesus at the same time. It causes me worry when I don't feel drawn to marriage because I wonder if that's a red flag, and if I should feel drawn to it, naturally. Other than that, I do like the idea of having a family and kids. But the way it happens, I only feel drawn to being married when I become more "lukewarm" in my faith. So I dont know if that means anything. I guess I can't know for sure, all the reasons why I feel drawn to religious life, and if my view is realistic, etc, until I visit communities. I don't know yet where God is leading me. Uncertainty about the future is probably one of the things we need to surrender to Him.

About religious life.. I have read that it's "objectively" a higher calling than marriage, though if someone is called to marriage, that's their path to holiness. I dont really see them as equal but that doesn't mean I'm called to religious life. God calls each person to their own path, and maybe He prepares the most graces for them there, it's also what 'fits' them best. This is just what I read somewhere.

Maybe the reason it makes me doubt when I don't feel drawn to marriage, is because - [i]this might sound kind of strange [/i]but - someone once remarked that when people want to be really close to Jesus, that's only because they don't have a boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse, and so they kind of "transfer" their desire for a relationship, to their relationship with God. I think that I see God as more than that, in any case I want to love Him more than how spouses love each other: because He is God, not a creature - maybe we can't ever love other creatures in the same way, since God needs to come first. But this remark made me afraid anyway. How do I know if this isn't true? did anyone else ever struggle with that? The other argument I came up with, is: - while it's true that we always have our natural inclinations, - our relationship with Jesus can be very loving yet very chaste. If it was simply misplaced desire for a human spouse, it would probably not be so pure. It's true St John of the Cross even wrote about people who are not entirely purified, being tempted with impure feelings during prayer or spiritual consolations. But since they can go beyond that, and become purified eventually, that means that the real basis of our love for God is spiritual. Sorry if this sounds like I'm questioning the most basic things, - but I've been confused and doubting lots. I do believe that my relationship with God is something real and spiritual, - I dont know why someone would not really want a human spouse, when they're closer to Him, but maybe that's something to ask a priest.

Edited December 30, 2011 by MarysLittleFlower

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='CherieMadame' timestamp='1325250751' post='2359930']
And it's not unusual for many discerners to NOT be attracted to marriage; I seem to think that's the way you feel from your OP. If that stems from unhealthy fear of human sexuality, then that's a different issue that needs to be addressed. But there are plenty of discerners who love the thought of dedicating their entire lives to God and don't feel a particular attraction to being married.

My novice mistress would probably have just given a warning that especially once you are in religious life, those desires could come "out of nowhere" and pose a real temptation for the religious. (Like I said before, there are many temptations that can befall you once you enter religious life! The devil hates religious! Pray daily for perseverance.) It is good to acknowledge that they may occur and if they do, to be very honest and open with your spiritual director and/or novice mistress about them. And to also realize that they are natural and to have them doesn't mean you don't have a religious vocation.
[/quote]

I wish one of the Vocation Directors I met with would have understood this. One of the girls I went on retreat with told the VD that she was not attracted to marriage because she felt no man could ever measure up to Jesus Christ and she desired to give up everything for Him. The VD nearly talked her out of discerning religious life because the VD felt that she had some negative attitude towards marriage and men. I was in the same room! There was no talk of men being lesser individuals or marriage being a terrible thing. I think the VD seriously misunderstood the other girl and I later told the girl as such. The girl almost lost hope of discerning a vocation because the VD tried to dissuade her.

Oh, and I should mention that this same girl is now discerning seriously with a cloistered Carmelite order and is attempting to apply!

Edited December 30, 2011 by MaterMisericordiae