Obama's Face On American Flag

[Nihil Obstat]

As a non-American I find the whole flag code to be slightly odd.

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331846359' post='2401393']
As a non-American I find the whole flag code to be slightly odd.
[/quote]

You have one as well: [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J116NKnHETwJ:www.ksd.mb.ca/Policies/Section%2520I/INDB.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESje_4mQLV_gWmaF6thf4MIQVmqqugevLuz9RP68o1b6pnY-iXA9XAnivDrFwEj5ud3xDRQmZ1c2ouGipXtt760VUx8szEUUJhNbw2FeBFG6gHxCG4ivzdsphWno-jdIJyqzz2e4&sig=AHIEtbTAyS1PV5i5juModlR8_CE-iF4m_g"]https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J116NKnHETwJ:www.ksd.mb.ca/Policies/Section%2520I/INDB.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESje_4mQLV_gWmaF6thf4MIQVmqqugevLuz9RP68o1b6pnY-iXA9XAnivDrFwEj5ud3xDRQmZ1c2ouGipXtt760VUx8szEUUJhNbw2FeBFG6gHxCG4ivzdsphWno-jdIJyqzz2e4&sig=AHIEtbTAyS1PV5i5juModlR8_CE-iF4m_g[/url]

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1331844212' post='2401373']
Upon reading the posted 'Flag Rules', it makes me think the 200' long flag displayed horizontally at football games violates the the rules.
[/quote]

It does. I only quoted part of the rules, but I think the one addressing that was on the part I included. It's also problematic because in order to fold the flag back up at that size there's no way to avoid it touching the ground--and not just touching but being on the ground for more than a few seconds.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331846790' post='2401400']
You have one as well: [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J116NKnHETwJ:www.ksd.mb.ca/Policies/Section%2520I/INDB.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESje_4mQLV_gWmaF6thf4MIQVmqqugevLuz9RP68o1b6pnY-iXA9XAnivDrFwEj5ud3xDRQmZ1c2ouGipXtt760VUx8szEUUJhNbw2FeBFG6gHxCG4ivzdsphWno-jdIJyqzz2e4&sig=AHIEtbTAyS1PV5i5juModlR8_CE-iF4m_g"]https://docs.google....odlR8_CE-iF4m_g[/url]
[/quote]

Here's another, lots of info there. http://www.pch.gc.ca/pgm/ceem-cced/etiqtt/101-eng.cfm

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331846790' post='2401400']
You have one as well: [url="https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J116NKnHETwJ:www.ksd.mb.ca/Policies/Section%2520I/INDB.pdf+&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESje_4mQLV_gWmaF6thf4MIQVmqqugevLuz9RP68o1b6pnY-iXA9XAnivDrFwEj5ud3xDRQmZ1c2ouGipXtt760VUx8szEUUJhNbw2FeBFG6gHxCG4ivzdsphWno-jdIJyqzz2e4&sig=AHIEtbTAyS1PV5i5juModlR8_CE-iF4m_g"]https://docs.google....odlR8_CE-iF4m_g[/url]
[/quote]

And I ignore it even harder. ^_^
But it's not really a thing here. Like, you ask 100 Canadians about the flag code, I bet you maybe one could tell you even one thing about it. Ask 100 Americans, and it seems like a pretty sizable number know a fair bit about it.

ETA: It's also not particularly common for regular people to fly the flag. Seems far more common in the US.

Edited March 15, 2012 by Nihil Obstat

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331847971' post='2401408']
And I ignore it even harder. ^_^
But it's not really a thing here. Like, you ask 100 Canadians about the flag code, I bet you maybe one could tell you even one thing about it. Ask 100 Americans, and it seems like a pretty sizable number know a fair bit about it.

ETA: It's also not particularly common for regular people to fly the flag. Seems far more common in the US.
[/quote]

Probably because they are veterans or former Boy or Girl Scouts.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331848623' post='2401415']
Probably because they are veterans or former Boy or Girl Scouts.
[/quote]
Pretty sure we have veterans and scouts in Canada too.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='cmotherofpirl' timestamp='1331848623' post='2401415']
Probably because they are veterans or former Boy or Girl Scouts.
[/quote]
I actually didn't really learn about the flag in Girl Scouts. I learned about it from my Dad and brothers being in Boy Scouts, and we learned about it at school.

[IcePrincessKRS]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1331848771' post='2401418']
I actually didn't really learn about the flag in Girl Scouts. I learned about it from my Dad and brothers being in Boy Scouts, and we learned about it at school.
[/quote]

Yeah, my dad was a reservist but I really learned the most about respecting our flag from my Mom. Her dad was in the Air Force when he was in his 20s so that may have been part of it... not really sure. I would venture to say that most Americans have at least a modicum of respect for our flag which is why we try to avoid the cardinal grievances against it (flying upside down, laying it on the ground, publicly burning it in protest, etc.) Because, obviously, it's not about the government, it's about We The People. And the men and women who serve to protect us. Despite our differences there is a certain pride and unity involved.

[MissScripture]

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1331849530' post='2401422']
Yeah, my dad was a reservist but I really learned the most about respecting our flag from my Mom. Her dad was in the Air Force when he was in his 20s so that may have been part of it... not really sure. I would venture to say that most Americans have at least a modicum of respect for our flag which is why we try to avoid the cardinal grievances against it (flying upside down, laying it on the ground, publicly burning it in protest, etc.) Because, obviously, it's not about the government, it's about We The People. And the men and women who serve to protect us. Despite our differences there is a certain pride and unity involved.
[/quote]
Exactly.

[Lil Red]

i think many people have a visceral reaction to disrespect of the flag because of family members or friends who have died, been maimed, or otherwise served their country with honor. i mean, i was [i]ticked off[/i] when i saw the flag being flown at night without illumination.

just a side note: to see the respect that was given my uncle's remains, even though there was precious little, was a pretty powerful sight to behold.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331847971' post='2401408']
And I ignore it even harder. ^_^
But it's not really a thing here. Like, you ask 100 Canadians about the flag code, I bet you maybe one could tell you even one thing about it. Ask 100 Americans, and it seems like a pretty sizable number know a fair bit about it.

ETA: It's also not particularly common for regular people to fly the flag. Seems far more common in the US.
[/quote]

Considering the history of the USA and Canada, I'm not surprised that we have more respect for our flag. As Lil Red said, we fought for it, died for it. (Now would be a good time point out that I am an immigrant that became a US citizen along with my parents in the 80s. I don't care. I have friends and family in the military; I have voted in every election that I could since I was 18; I respect our flag.)

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1331849766' post='2401427']
i think many people have a visceral reaction to disrespect of the flag because of family members or friends who have died, been maimed, or otherwise served their country with honor. i mean, i was [i]ticked off[/i] when i saw the flag being flown at night without illumination.
[/quote]

It's this visceral reaction that I find kind of academically interesting. I don't really feel much for any flag. They're symbols of a country, but it's not like the flag has feelings or something. I get the impression that some people treat their flag as if it actually were a relative or something.
We can talk about the military side if you like. I get that people fight and are killed because they wanted to protect their country and their families. That's a good reason to fight. But they don't die for a piece of cloth.


I'll put it this way: I understand entirely being respectful towards things that are just symbols. I just see the American flag in particular being somewhat anomalous. It often seems to me that respect for that particular symbol can be greater than what it would otherwise warrant.

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331850111' post='2401433']
Considering the history of the USA and Canada, I'm not surprised that we have more respect for our flag. As Lil Red said, we fought for it, died for it. (Now would be a good time point out that I am an immigrant that became a US citizen along with my parents in the 80s. I don't care. I have friends and family in the military; I have voted in every election that I could since I was 18; I respect our flag.)
[/quote]
What differing history between the US and Canada are you referring to?

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331850740' post='2401436']
What differing history between the US and Canada are you referring to?
[/quote] I'm referring to the method of gaining independence from Great Britain.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331851014' post='2401438']
I'm referring to the method of gaining independence from Great Britain.
[/quote]

Interesting theory. Can you expand on that?

[MissScripture]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331850111' post='2401433']
Considering the history of the USA and Canada, I'm not surprised that we have more respect for our flag. As Lil Red said, we fought for it, died for it. (Now would be a good time point out that I am an immigrant that became a US citizen along with my parents in the 80s. I don't care. I have friends and family in the military; I have voted in every election that I could since I was 18; I respect our flag.)
[/quote]
I think part of the reason it's a big deal in our family is because my grandparents were immigrants, so the symbols of freedom mean a LOT. They came to the US after WWII, after my grandma and great-grandma had escaped a concentration camp, and my grandpa's family was leaving behind extreme poverty. My grandma still cries every year on the 4th of July when she talks about seeing the Statue of Liberty.

[Adrestia]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331851068' post='2401440']
Interesting theory. Can you expand on that?
[/quote]

I think Canadians would have more respect for their flag if they had fought for independence.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331785325' post='2400975']
I'll be living in the US within about 2 years.
[/quote]


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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331832828' post='2401229']
I mean offense.
[/quote]
It's not very becoming. In fact, I have lost a portion of what little respect I had for you with that comment.

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[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1331843907' post='2401370']
My mom was always on us to make sure we took proper care of our flag growing up. We didn't know the whole code or anything like that, but the basic rules of respect we knew from childhood.
[/quote]
Same here. I firmly believe every American child should have the same instruction, preferably in the home.

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[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331846359' post='2401393']
As a non-American I find the whole flag code to be slightly odd.
[/quote]
Does your status as a non-American really have anything to do with it? Humor me here and think about that for a minute. If you were born in America, do you think you'd have a greater respect for your flag or any other flag?

Before you allow your knee-jerk response to hit the phorum, consider this post:
[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1331847971' post='2401408']
And I ignore it even harder. ^_^
[/quote]

-----------------------------

[quote name='IcePrincessKRS' timestamp='1331849530' post='2401422']
Yeah, my dad was a reservist but I really learned the most about respecting our flag from my Mom. Her dad was in the Air Force when he was in his 20s so that may have been part of it... not really sure. I would venture to say that most Americans have at least a modicum of respect for our flag which is why we try to avoid the cardinal grievances against it (flying upside down, laying it on the ground, publicly burning it in protest, etc.) Because, obviously, it's not about the government, it's about We The People. And the men and women who serve to protect us. Despite our differences there is a certain pride and unity involved.
[/quote]
Absolutely agreed. Well said, boozer.

--------------------------------------------

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331850111' post='2401433']
Considering the history of the USA and Canada, I'm not surprised that we have more respect for our flag. As Lil Red said, we fought for it, died for it.
[/quote]
Yes, my flag represents a great deal (as every American learns at some point in his or her life). I have a natural inclination toward strong attachment, but I think even without it, I would still feel very strongly about respect for the flag. (I do believe every citizen of every country should show respect to his or her flag.)

------------------------------


[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1331851376' post='2401443']
I think part of the reason it's a big deal in our family is because my grandparents were immigrants, so the symbols of freedom mean a LOT. They came to the US after WWII, after my grandma and great-grandma had escaped a concentration camp, and my grandpa's family was leaving behind extreme poverty. My grandma still cries every year on the 4th of July when she talks about seeing the Statue of Liberty.
[/quote]
That made me tear up. Beautiful.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Adrestia' timestamp='1331851457' post='2401444']
I think Canadians would have more respect for their flag if they had fought for independence.
[/quote]

On the flip side, perhaps we might have more respect for our flag that we obtained peacefully and without killing anyone. ^_^ Iunno, your idea is compelling but I'm not 100% ready to accept it.

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1331851815' post='2401447']


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It's not very becoming. In fact, I have lost a portion of what little respect I had for you with that comment.

----------------------------------


Same here. I firmly believe every American child should have the same instruction, preferably in the home.

---------------------------------------------------------


Does your status as a non-American really have anything to do with it? Humor me here and think about that for a minute. If you were born in America, do you think you'd have a greater respect for your flag or any other flag?

Before you allow your knee-jerk response to hit the phorum, consider this post:


-----------------------------


Absolutely agreed. Well said, boozer.

--------------------------------------------


Yes, my flag represents a great deal (as every American learns at some point in his or her life). I have a natural inclination toward strong attachment, but I think even without it, I would still feel very strongly about respect for the flag. (I do believe every citizen of every country should show respect to his or her flag.)

------------------------------



That made me tear up. Beautiful.
[/quote]

"It's not very becoming. In fact, I have lost a portion of what little respect I had for you with that comment."
What, we can't make jokes about Obama? I really don't respect him, and a bit of levity is generally appreciated.

"Does your status as a non-American really have anything to do with it? Humor me here and think about that for a minute. If you were born in America, do you think you'd have a greater respect for your flag or any other flag?"
I thought it was pretty relevant, yeah. I'm assuming it's one of those things where you have to live it to understand. That's why I've tried to be pretty clear that I don't understand the subject, coming from an outsider position. I thought that was fairly reasonable.

"Yes, my flag represents a great deal (as every American learns at some point in his or her life). I have a natural inclination toward strong attachment, but I think even without it, I would still feel very strongly about respect for the flag. (I do believe every citizen of every country should show respect to his or her flag.)"
Like I said, I understand general respect to important symbols. I just perceive the American flag to be a bit anomalous as far as symbols go. In my experience Americans tend to treat their flag differently than any other symbol. Anomalies are interesting. I want to figure out how it works, hence my questioning.

The assumption in this thread seems to be that I'm actively disrespecting the American flag. That's not really true. I'd like to understand how the whole idea works.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='MissScripture' timestamp='1331851376' post='2401443'] I think part of the reason it's a big deal in our family is because my grandparents were immigrants, so the symbols of freedom mean a LOT. They came to the US after WWII, after my grandma and great-grandma had escaped a concentration camp, and my grandpa's family was leaving behind extreme poverty. My grandma still cries every year on the 4th of July when she talks about seeing the Statue of Liberty. [/quote]

i cry every time i hear the Star Spangled Banner being sung.