Clareni Posted March 28, 2012 Author Share Posted March 28, 2012 [quote name='marigold' timestamp='1332936627' post='2409606'] Sometimes we haven't been very welcoming to you, just as you haven't always welcomed us. But we're very friendly when you get to know us, as I hope to God comes across on VS! [/quote] I have found these discussions on the Orthodox witness to be interesting, useful, and illuminating. I know well the harsh divide separating Catholic and Orthodox since (approx) 1057 and the many differences. At the same time the VS has shown the incredible beauty of our common desire to unite our lives with God and live for his love alone. Admittedly there are all sorts of important and complex disputes between the two traditions. None of that affects the essential truth that Marigold is a beloved sister in Christ whom I pray for every day as I do for all here entering the consecrated life. I earnestly look forward to the day I will be re-united with the Catholic church and receive the Eucharist. At that time, though, my prayer will be from the Orthodox and I will say it in my heart every time I approach our lord. Of thy Mystical Supper, O Son of God, accept me today as a communicant; for I will not speak of thy Mystery to thine enemies, neither will I give thee a kiss as did Judas; but like the thief will I confess thee: Remember me, O Lord, in thy Kingdom. Not unto judgment nor unto condemnation be my partaking of thy Holy Mysteries, O Lord, but for the healing of soul and body. Amen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Very interesting, Marigold. You've answered a lot of questions I had wondered about. The "helmet of salvation" reminds me a little of this: http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Daily-Gift-and-Reminder-Habit-of-Witness.html "Two years after her clothing, a novice will profess vows, and a black veil will be placed on her head signifying that she has become "recognized as a house of prayer . . . and a temple of intercession for all people."' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juchu Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 Oh I loved reading this thread! Thanks or asking all the good questions! Oh, and I have another one: We once had some orthodox sister visiting and they had a lot of painted crosses on their veils. Unfortunately we had some language barrier so we did not manage to really talk. I understood that it is something meant to be against the demons or so? But is there are larger story behind it? And is it something common? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 29, 2012 Share Posted March 29, 2012 There is no Byzantine church near me. There is a bi-ritual priest in my diocese who used to do the Byzantine liturgy for my Carmelites in the next diocese. They celebrate Latin rite and Ruthenian rite. (Ruth and Byz the same right?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clareni Posted March 30, 2012 Author Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1333062538' post='2410417'] They celebrate Latin rite and Ruthenian rite. (Ruth and Byz the same right?) [/quote] Ruthenia is the Latin variant of "Rus" which is ethnic term denoting Eastern Slavic people in the area of what is now Ukraine and Belarus as well as the border regions of what was then the Austro-Hungarian empire. The people in these areas were predominately Byzantine Rite Catholics or Eastern Orthodox who both use the liturgy of St John Chrysostom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Clareni' timestamp='1333077324' post='2410516'] Ruthenia is the Latin variant of "Rus" which is ethnic term denoting Eastern Slavic people in the area of what is now Ukraine and Belarus as well as the border regions of what was then the Austro-Hungarian empire. The people in these areas were predominately Byzantine Rite Catholics or Eastern Orthodox who both use the liturgy of St John Chrysostom. [/quote] And 'Byzantine Rite Catholics' historically were Orthodox. Edited March 30, 2012 by marigold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='marigold' timestamp='1333106067' post='2410584'] And 'Byzantine Rite Catholics' historically were Orthodox. [/quote] So are the liturgies exactly alike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1333141370' post='2410789'] So are the liturgies exactly alike [/quote] There'll be differences in the style of music used... Apart from that I believe Byzantine/Eastern Catholics use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great during Lent, the same as we do. Generally you can think of them as 'Orthodox under the Bishop of Rome', that's what they are, although there's often quite a bit of confusion when they try and incorporate various Latin things, mostly on a practical level. There's nothing lost by going to an Orthodox parish if it's really just the liturgy you're interested to see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='marigold' timestamp='1333143466' post='2410800'] There'll be differences in the style of music used... Apart from that I believe Byzantine/Eastern Catholics use the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom, and the Divine Liturgy of St. Basil the Great during Lent, the same as we do. Generally you can think of them as 'Orthodox under the Bishop of Rome', that's what they are, although there's often quite a bit of confusion when they try and incorporate various Latin things, mostly on a practical level. There's nothing lost by going to an Orthodox parish if it's really just the liturgy you're interested to see [/quote] Oh no, I was wondering because Lafayette Carm is bi-ritual. Sort of. I don't know of any orthodox churches in my area. Or any eastern churches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='juchu' timestamp='1333003565' post='2409955'] Oh I loved reading this thread! Thanks or asking all the good questions! Oh, and I have another one: We once had some orthodox sister visiting and they had a lot of painted crosses on their veils. Unfortunately we had some language barrier so we did not manage to really talk. I understood that it is something meant to be against the demons or so? But is there are larger story behind it? And is it something common? [/quote] Sorry juchu, I just saw this. Um, do you mean like the Coptic monks wear? Because I have seen that on Coptic nuns, though it is very rare... [img]http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/burning_string/3292422417_5bc947d136.jpg[/img] Other than that, I can't think what you mean. Can you find a photo? You know, there are endless little variations that communities and countries have come up with. A lot of the monastics in countries with a large Islamic population have taken to stitching little red crosses onto the front of their veils/hats, to distinguish them, since the clothing is so similar. I've never seen a veil with lots of painted crosses all over it, but I wouldn't put it past someone to have done that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1333144223' post='2410803'] Oh no, I was wondering because Lafayette Carm is bi-ritual. Sort of. I don't know of any orthodox churches in my area. Or any eastern churches. [/quote] Wow! How interesting. How come? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='marigold' timestamp='1333144487' post='2410806'] Wow! How interesting. How come? [/quote] In the south, Eastern Catholicism isn't as predominate as it is in the north of the US. There may be an eastern church. I just don't know about it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='the171' timestamp='1333144716' post='2410808'] In the south, Eastern Catholicism isn't as predominate as it is in the north of the US. There may be an eastern church. I just don't know about it... [/quote] No, how come they're bi-ritual!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='marigold' timestamp='1333144960' post='2410810'] No, how come they're bi-ritual!? [/quote] Well, I think a few of the sisters who entered after the founding (50s maybe?) were from one of the Eastern rites. But they still entered Lafayette which is a Latin rite community. Then a new chaplain came along who celebrated both rites. I guess they started using both liturgies. Obviously Latin more than Byz, but they used both. Now Fr. Herbert is in this diocese (this was before the diocese of lafayette split to become the Dioceses of Lafayette and Lake Charles). He used to travel over there every once in a while to celebrate the mass with them, but Father, who is in his middle ages, is old for his age. LOL. Also he has a large parish now so he can't travel like he used to. So they don't do the Byz rite like they used to. I don't think they've done it for a few years. It's also hard to teach the parts to the sisters who are used to Latin and the vernacular. I believe they do it when Fr. Herbert comes to visit, but he is very busy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted March 30, 2012 Share Posted March 30, 2012 They must be unique with that. There are the Byzantine Carmelites in PA but you might not ever get to visit them if you have your way Who knows, maybe you'll live to see the Divine Liturgy at Lafayette. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXTlNl_PVAE"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXTlNl_PVAE[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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