Are Athiest Necessary In The World?

[blacksheep]

I'm gonna put this out there and see what people think. I think they are necessary. Aside from some who have an ego, pride and knowitallism, I think Athiests are a benefit to us. Not theologically or morally, but as a sort of "lets look at this again and see what it really is" kind of benefit. I see so many people fall for false prophets, fake miracles, ie second commings, leaking statues and faces on toast, that they seem to be the ones who kinda smack us on the head and say "Hold on". Grant it I don't agree with their primary view but I have always found them interesting.

What do you all think?

and yes i spelled Atheist Wrong! So no grammar police please.

Now a grammar nazi atheist...that is something i don't need.

Edited March 29, 2012 by blacksheep

[Slappo]

Necessary? No. Can good things come from their actions and viewpoints? Of course.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='blacksheep' timestamp='1333032751' post='2410039']
I'm gonna put this out there and see what people think. I think they are necessary. Aside from some who have an ego, pride and knowitallism, I think Athiests are a benefit to us. Not theologically or morally, but as a sort of "lets look at this again and see what it really is" kind of benefit. I see so many people fall for false prophets, fake miracles, ie second commings, leaking statues and faces on toast, that they seem to be the ones who kinda smack us on the head and say "Hold on". Grant it I don't agree with their primary view but I have always found them interesting.

What do you all think?

and yes i spelled Atheist Wrong! So no grammar police please.

Now a grammar nazi atheist...that is something i don't need.
[/quote]Besides the fact that misspelling in thread titles causes illness in ponies...

If you replace Atheist with "rational, logical thinker", then I'd give a vote that they're necessary to society. If you have a value system that is totally reliant on 'Faith Alone', then believing a god is actually communicating via a toast pattern is acceptable. That standard is 'if you believe it in your heart, it is True'.

[Selah]

[quote]Besides the fact that misspelling in thread titles causes illness in ponies...[/quote]


[img]http://twentypercentcooler.net/data/1b/6a/1b6a31b14652decce7e81054e0f25f51.gif?1313055164[/img]

[Era Might]

The only kind of atheists I find interesting are the existentialist literary types.

[Slappo]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1333037003' post='2410191']
If you replace Atheist with "rational, logical thinker", then I'd give a vote that they're necessary to society. [/quote]

Me too considering that makes up all of the great Catholic philosophers... such as St. Thomas Aquinas the Angelic Doctor...

Oh... and Jesus Christ too since he was rational and logical.

[Annie12]

I just have to say, a large majority of the Atheists I know have ditched me as a friend because they think I am stupid. One of my friends said cursing made people smarter (and therefore I wasn't as smart as her because I don't offend God with my words.) She also said a bunch of other stuff that was really offensive and blatantly false. And, for being a friend of hers for over 6 years, she couldn't had thrown me away faster. She hasn't talked to me in over 6 months. I felt completely used and I realize that Atheists think religious people are ignorant weirdos who go around talking about stuff that happened a long time ago which I find extremely offensive. I will alway be nice to everyone I meet because I know I could be their first glimpse of happiness through God, but the way that I have been treated by that group of people has been awful. But in all fairness, I have had one friend (thats all) of no religious beliefs who has been amazing and supportive! But you can probably tell how hurt I was by my other friend.

All in all, if you don't talk about religion they are great but if you do they will hate you. I guess that means we are right though because Christ said that since we are not of the world the world will hate us. Anything for Christ!

[Annie12]

I will add though that God needs everyone on earth weather or not they wish to do his will.

[Jesus_lol]

[quote name='Annie12' timestamp='1333127609' post='2410705']
I just have to say, a large majority of the Atheists I know have ditched me as a friend because they think I am stupid. One of my friends said cursing made people smarter (and therefore I wasn't as smart as her because I don't offend God with my words.) She also said a bunch of other stuff that was really offensive and blatantly false. And, for being a friend of hers for over 6 years, she couldn't had thrown me away faster. She hasn't talked to me in over 6 months. I felt completely used and I realize that Atheists think religious people are ignorant weirdos who go around talking about stuff that happened a long time ago which I find extremely offensive. I will alway be nice to everyone I meet because I know I could be their first glimpse of happiness through God, but the way that I have been treated by that group of people has been awful. But in all fairness, I have had one friend (thats all) of no religious beliefs who has been amazing and supportive! But you can probably tell how hurt I was by my other friend.

All in all, if you don't talk about religion they are great but if you do they will hate you. I guess that means we are right though because Christ said that since we are not of the world the world will hate us. Anything for Christ!
[/quote]

Try and remember that you shouldnt generalize from anecdotal experience with a few. It would be all to easy to look at the utterly countless stories of people being thrown out, kicked out, ostracized, etc by Christians for whatever reason(being gay, athiest, different religion, dating the wrong person, etc) and generalize that out to mean all christians are horrible people.

[centurion]

Atheists occupy a theological and philosophical negative. The great irony is that they would not exist without religion because they offer nothing beyond a belief in the non-existance of something which they cannot prove either way. Certainly, they claim to uphold ideals of reason and scientific theory, but then the more political atheists tend to act in strangely aggressive and unreasonable ways. It would seem that human nature holds true whether you believe in God or no-God.

Reason, science, and logic are wonderful things, but they are hardly a domain held completely or even primarily by atheists. Frankly, a study of metaphysics and epistemology demands a Prime Mover. St. Thomas Aquinas was one of those who explored this in his work. Those who deny this rely on ignorance or faith (whether they want to call their philosophy faith or not).

There will always be atheists because there will always be those who deny the existance of a Prime Mover (which in some cases is understandable given the suffering of the world), but they hardly add anything positive to the world with their stance.

[Annie12]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1333137962' post='2410765']
Try and remember that you shouldnt generalize from anecdotal experience with a few. It would be all to easy to look at the utterly countless stories of people being thrown out, kicked out, ostracized, etc by Christians for whatever reason(being gay, athiest, different religion, dating the wrong person, etc) and generalize that out to mean all christians are horrible people.
[/quote]
I understand and I hope I didn't offend anyone. That wasn't my aim. I was just sharing my experiences. Though you do have to realize that Atheists don't believe in God and therefore think people who do are ridiculous. I think you have to draw a line as to how sugar coated you want to present things.The fact is that some Atheists are searching to fill the God shaped hole in their soul while others are definitively not. And as I said above, God needs those people weather or not they do his will. There is a reason why he created them. I love everyone no matter what they believe but its just hard to relate to someone who hates you for being you (like in my case and I realize not ALL atheists do that but a lot do). I pray for everyone I know who doesn't have God in their lives and I trust God will bring them to him or have mercy on them but in the end I don't understand what else can be done. when I think of Atheist I think of Our lady of Fatima message when our lady told the children that most of the souls in hell didn't believe in God. It makes sense since, (to make an analogy for a sec) you life is like a painting project you start out with a blank page and then fill it with color. (the color being prayer, good deeds, and sacramental graces). However, Atheists don't add any paint because they can't do anything for God if they don't acknowledged his existence. So, their life is like a blank page with maybe a few spots of color. I really don't want to hurt anyone, but this is my view and the question asked for it. I hope this cleared things up.

[FutureSister2009]

I don't know how to answer this since I do not like atheists. But I do have a friend here at school who is an atheist and we do not discuss Faith at all but she's still my friend and I do not judge her.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='FutureSister2009' timestamp='1333150277' post='2410843']
I don't know how to answer this since I do not like atheists. But I do have a friend here at school who is an atheist and we do not discuss Faith at all but she's still my friend and I do not judge her.
[/quote]I don't understand. You don't like atheists but you have a friend who is am atheist? So you fake being friends?
Atheist are not necessarily anti-god or anti-religion. They can be non-god or non/religious. Disaggrement does not equate hate or anti-feelings. An atheist doesn't need god to tell them not to cook their children and it's good to be in love with their spouse or take care of their sick friend.

[Groo the Wanderer]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1333157272' post='2410880']
An atheist doesn't need god to tell them not to cook their children and it's good to be in love with their spouse or take care of their sick friend.
[/quote]

Actually they do. It's God that wrote the Natural Law into their being so they would know these things are wrong or right innately. Random collections of cellular matter give not a flip about right and wrong, nor have a concept of such. It doesn't matter if they acknowledge the One who gave them a conscience, they still follow it to some degree.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Groo the Wanderer

[Anomaly]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1333168007' post='2410985']
Actually they do. It's God that wrote the Natural Law into their being so they would know these things are wrong or right innately. Random collections of cellular matter give not a flip about right and wrong, nor have a concept of such. It doesn't matter if they acknowledge the One who gave them a conscience, they still follow it to some degree.
[/quote]I believe we may be missing a conjuction of thought by mere inches. It's fine if you want designate a God as the puppet master or prime mover created an essence or right or wrong in our psyche or the 'spirit' of the world. That still doesn't 'make' us know these things are right or wong innately. Discerning right from wrong requires applying our intelligent self-awareness and application of our intellect (whether or not we agree a god gave us intellect).
Whether by divine intervention in the foundation of creation or by reasonable observation of the world we live in, intellectual thought is required. Catholics usually do not require the constant active intercession of God to tell them what is right or wrong and wake up in the morning needing to pray to God for a sign of whether to cook breakfast for their kid, or cook their kid for breakfast.

[Groo the Wanderer]

Incorrect.

Natural law is what helps to guide the formation of the conscience. It allows to know right from wrong, even if we do not know God overtly. Our very being knows God in a primal way for lack of a better term. Will is required to act on this, not intellect. Intellect is required to expand on the natural law and apply it to our experiences in life.

God does not have to as you say, actively intercede, because He has already written the natural law into our being. I would not say intercede would be applicable also because of the gift of free will. God interceding would be more like us exercising our free will and choosing, in violation of the natural law to not feed our children, and Him stepping in to cook up some bacon for them Himself.

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1333197374' post='2411092']
I believe we may be missing a conjuction of thought by mere inches. It's fine if you want designate a God as the puppet master or prime mover created an essence or right or wrong in our psyche or the 'spirit' of the world. That still doesn't 'make' us know these things are right or wong innately. Discerning right from wrong requires applying our intelligent self-awareness and application of our intellect (whether or not we agree a god gave us intellect).
Whether by divine intervention in the foundation of creation or by reasonable observation of the world we live in, intellectual thought is required. Catholics usually do not require the constant active intercession of God to tell them what is right or wrong and wake up in the morning needing to pray to God for a sign of whether to cook breakfast for their kid, or cook their kid for breakfast.
[/quote]

I get what you're saying. Initially your post irked me but I figured I'd give you the benfit of the doubt (lucky you!).

You have to understand though that a lot of people characteristically use the "we don't need god to tell us . . ." phrase to hint at their moral superiority almost like "I'm a good person based on my own righteous will and volition, you only behave morally because you believe there is a sky fairy who will punish you if you don't. See I act out of love and all good things, you act out of fear. I'm better than you. Sorry."

But that's not what you were saying, right?

[Kia ora]

[quote name='blacksheep' timestamp='1333032751' post='2410039'] Not theologically or morally, but as a sort of "lets look at this again and see what it really is" kind of benefit.
[/quote]I guess it's good to have critics. But I think that sometimes, the best critics may be self-critics. Outsiders have prejudices that blind them to their own faults. No one's an impartial judge. Whereas an insider has first hand experience. I'd personally trust a Catholic to criticise their own religion over an atheist.

If atheists did not self-organise, I think it'd be better. People, all people, seem to be meaner and dumber in groups. Which is probably not true, but it [i]sounds[/i] true.

Hey, remember when being an atheist was radical and meant getting amesome outcast points?

Yeah, I don't remember it either. But still. Why do we need atheist organisations, campaigns and public figures? I liked it when we were the voice crying out in the desert.

Edited March 31, 2012 by Kia ora

[Jesus_lol]

If god put the natural law of good and evil into everyone, can we assume he just forgot to give it to sociopaths?

[Ice_nine]

[quote name='Jesus_lol' timestamp='1333208668' post='2411148']
If god put the natural law of good and evil into everyone, can we assume he just forgot to give it to sociopaths?
[/quote]

that's something I always wondered about. I think you might be playing devil's advocate, but I've never gotten a clear answer. Something along the lines of an impoverished formation on conscience, but not much farther than that.

But anti-social personality disorder is still a huge mystery in the psychological field as well. About 1-4% of the population is estimated to have it, but as far as etiology and such there seems to be a lot of shoulder shrugging (as with many abnormal psychological phenomena), and as far as treatments that's even less explored for obvious reasons.

I still think it's a good question to ask. Some people could kill a child and genuinely have zero remorse . . . I don't know.