Anarchism And Property Rights

[KnightofChrist]

And what is statism?

[Innocent]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1338434980' post='2438407']
I seriously thought about writing Zerzan a letter after reading his anti-Star Trek essay on the toilet one day.
[/quote]

I looked him up on Google and found this collection of his writings on the Internet Archive:[size=4][url="http://www23.us.archive.org/details/JohnZerzan-RunningOnEmptiness"]John Zerzan - Running on Emptiness[/url][/size]

Would you recommend investing the time to read this, L_D?

[Winchester]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1338434980' post='2438407']
I seriously thought about writing Zerzan a letter after reading his anti-Star Trek essay on the toilet one day.
[/quote]
He wrote an essay on a toilet?

[KnightofChrist]

Is statism belief that the state exist and has authority or something else?

[KnightofChrist]

The authority to govern btw.

[MIKolbe]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1338551756' post='2439243']
He wrote an essay on a toilet?
[/quote]
it was a flushing success

[Winchester]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1338551555' post='2439240']
And what is statism?
[/quote]
KoC, trying to come up with something succinct. Not ignoring you. But I was flooping with you with that first answer.

[Laudate_Dominum]

[quote name='Innocent' timestamp='1338551647' post='2439242']
I looked him up on Google and found this collection of his writings on the Internet Archive:[url="http://www23.us.archive.org/details/JohnZerzan-RunningOnEmptiness"]John Zerzan - Running on Emptiness[/url]

Would you recommend investing the time to read this, L_D?
[/quote]
I would only recommend it if you enjoy reading unusual ideas. I like mixing things up a bit so that I don't fall into the habit of only reading things that reinforce my biases. Although I do share some of the values of anarcho-primitivism. The [i]Against Civilization[/i] anthology has some thought-provoking selections. There is something amusing and ironic about the literature that goes so far as to critique and condemn symbolic culture (e.g., language itself). Fun bathroom reading.

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1338551756' post='2439243']
He wrote an essay on a toilet?[/quote]
Zerzan had better take his cr@ps outside, even in public, like the great Diogenes or I'll consider him a poseur.

Edited June 1, 2012 by Laudate_Dominum

[Innocent]

[quote name='Laudate_Dominum' timestamp='1338576205' post='2439490']
I would only recommend it if you enjoy reading unusual ideas. I like mixing things up a bit so that I don't fall into the habit of only reading things that reinforce my biases.
[/quote]

In the matter of reading about ideas, I consider myself a disciple of Mortimer Adler.

I shall bookmark this and read it when I have time.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Anarchy is the pentagram which used to be king solomons seal, it just means we need to understand each other and that we have all saught the truth at times in some strange kind of places,thoughts,actions etc. And that understanding is the birth of wisdom because through those mistakes if we are repentant we realise that only God himself holds the truth. That my take on it anyway. But the heart of the matter for a practising christian shouldn't be well maybe i will just try a quicky on the side and see what happens,because that would be assuming Gods mercy and testing him,but as we all are a work in progress this quicky can occur sometimes without our full consent in many different ways,we kind of flirt with the enemy/devil. I hope that helps. And even if 99 percent of what i have just said is wrong please keep the 1 percent that is true, I'm just being honest to the extent of my knowledge of the holy word,understanding and life experience,with a dash of prayer in faith hope and love.

Onward christian souls.
JESUS iz LORD.
God iz Good,God is Love,God saves.


JC "seek and you will find." "knock and the door will be opened." "be baptised and believe and you will be saved." "the two most important commandments are these, Love the Lord your God with all your mind,heart and soul,and love your neighbour as yourself."

St mary mackillop of the cross. "be eager in your desires but patient in there accomplishment."
St Tobit of the outcasts " the women whom is the holy chosen one." (ie:the holy mother mary.Stay close to her and you share in that choseness and closeness to our lord jesus.)
St Benedict. "Prefer nothing whatsoever to christ."

[MIKolbe]

EXACTLY!

[Amppax]

[quote name='Innocent' timestamp='1338614489' post='2439838']
In the matter of reading about ideas, I consider myself a disciple of Mortimer Adler.

I shall bookmark this and read it when I have time.
[/quote]

Mortimer Adler is razzle dazzle

[Winchester]

Statism is the belief that an entity may claim a monopoly on legalized violence within a given area. That's rather loose. I think with Statism also comes the belief that the State should control economic activities, and that this control will (or can) result in a better economy. There is also some belief in legal positivism (Well, we have to stop completely at this stop sign, because STOP SIGN! (yes, that's a rather vulgar example, but I wanted to take a dig at the people who obey traffic laws simply because they are there)). Statists often believe in the social contract, a document that we apparently all signed, and that governments possess in a locker. It gives them the right to raise money whenever they want by increasing taxes or decorating slips of paper which we are compelled by force to accept in exchange for real goods. Statism doesn't just make the assumption that this is the lesser evil, but that the State is actually justified in these actions. These actions are actually good. It is possible that such an entity is necessary in a fallen world. This necessity would not make the State good, just as lying to the Nazis about a Jew hiding in your house would not be "good".

Obviously, there are degrees of Statism. The Tea Party seems less Statist (in many ways) than Mayor Bloomberg, who wants to outlaw sodas of an arbitrarily chosen size (which seems an innocuous enough manifestation of the belief in total control of a special group of magical human beings who know best, and are empowered to force that best on others).

And then there are most Americans, who will describe their rights as "Granted by the Constitution". Yes, this formulation might not be well thought out. If pressed, they might accept that rights exist prior to the State and its laws. But I think this is an example of how deeply we are infected with Statism.

Edited June 3, 2012 by Winchester

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Winney'] (Well, we have to stop completely at this stop sign, because STOP SIGN! (yes, that's a rather vulgar example, but I wanted to take a dig at the people who obey traffic laws simply because they are there)).[/quote] Please don't take this as a glib remark; I mean it in all sincerity.

What do you think is a better response to such a situation? How should a person respond to things like a stop sign?

[Winchester]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338732027' post='2440240']
Please don't take this as a glib remark; I mean it in all sincerity.

What do you think is a better response to such a situation? How should a person respond to things like a stop sign?
[/quote]
Use your judgment.

Or just stop. Stopping is just fine. I'm speaking of the reaction some people have to the violation of arbitrary decrees. We were once solemnly informed on PM that if the government declared a given drinking age, that it was a sin to violate that law. That's just flooping stupid.

[qfnol31]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1338735285' post='2440244']

Use your judgment.

Or just stop. Stopping is just fine. I'm speaking of the reaction some people have to the violation of arbitrary decrees. We were once solemnly informed on PM that if the government declared a given drinking age, that it was a sin to violate that law. That's just flooping stupid.
[/quote]I can see why someone might say that.

What really distinguishes an arbitrary law from a non arbitrary one? Laws against drinking while drunk don't seem arbitrary, but the cutoff point is. How do you distinguish between them? I can start a new thread if this derails the present topic too much.

[Winchester]

[quote name='qfnol31' timestamp='1338748434' post='2440270']
I can see why someone might say that.

What really distinguishes an arbitrary law from a non arbitrary one? Laws against drinking while drunk don't seem arbitrary, but the cutoff point is. How do you distinguish between them? I can start a new thread if this derails the present topic too much.
[/quote]
Is it immoral to drive impaired?

[qfnol31]

Justice would suggest that it is because you are endangering yourself and those around you.

[Amory]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1338520838' post='2439109']
What about Space Exploration under Anarchism? No doubt this would fall to corporations, no?[/quote]

I'm not sure why space exploration by corporations would be such a bad idea. Leaving exploration and trade to corporations chartered by the government worked pretty well for the British and the Dutch. Of course, this was more mercantilist than capitalist, which makes me wonder if mercantilism wasn't equal if not superior to the capitalist system we have now (or, more accurately, mixed economy leaning toward capitalism).

Edited June 3, 2012 by Amory

[Amory]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1338731570' post='2440238']
And then there are most Americans, who will describe their rights as "Granted by the Constitution". Yes, this formulation might not be well thought out. If pressed, they might accept that rights exist prior to the State and its laws. But I think this is an example of how deeply we are infected with Statism.
[/quote]

Well, it makes more sense to speak of rights that are "granted by the Constitution" than to support John Locke's notion of "natural rights." Besides the fact that they are "nonsense upon stilts," they also don't fit very well into the Catholic theological system. Lockean natural rights were completely unknown to the Apostles and to the Fathers, and they are certainly no more than superficially similar to Thomas Aquinas' concept of [i]ius naturale. [/i]