Help! How To Talk With My Dad?

[Safia]

Hey y'all!

Short story: I reverted to Catholicism in September. Began discernment in November. Visited a community in January, again in March, and completed a 3.5-week aspirancy today. God is calling me to religious life. I've no doubt. (Long story [url="http://theworldafire.blogspot.com/2012/06/extensive-vocation-story-part-i.html"]here[/url], if you're interested.)

I've completed two years of university.

I'm heading home on Friday to talk this through with my dad. I talked with him on the phone today, and he flipped out. (I knew he would.) I need suggestions on how to handle this; I'm terrified. He wants me to finish college (and, ideally, wait until I'm 30, to make sure I "still have" the vocation, as if what I know and feel and have experienced is merely adrenaline. And he's a devout Catholic.)

My mom passed away last May 20th, and that adds another level of stress.

Problem #1: My university is super expensive, which means lots of loans, for him and for me.

Problem #2: I'm not interested in anything remotely secular anymore. God is my life. (I really am positive of this vocation. I yearn for the Lord, to give Him everything.)

I'm a deeply changed person, within a short space of time, and I think part of this is that my dad doesn't recognize me.

I'm going home for four days. In those four days, I really need to get his blessing. I'll need to be able to move home to work and chip in toward paying off the loans he took out for me.

What do I say?! Has anyone experienced this problem?

If you're a parent, what could you have heard to help you?

Prayers would be helpful too: for him!

Thanks!

Edited June 4, 2012 by Safia

[Joan Marie Wandel]

I'm not a parent but am discerning i don't know what to tell you

[Lilllabettt]

Your Dad probably knows you better than most anyone, and I think it would be unwise to dismiss his concerns out of hand. You have, as you say yourself, experienced trauma, grief, and dramatic change, all in a very short period. I don't know if you have a spiritual director or not ... my directors always advised me not to make any serious decisions in the midst of an emotional or spiritual revolution -- but rather to be humble, and submit to the testing of time. Sometimes I listened, sometimes I didn't ...

Consider this situation from your father's perspective. He has lost his wife, is facing life as a single parent, is now abruptly confronted with the possible loss of his daughter, too. ( Of course it is not the same --- but the cloister is a kind of death. ) Since you are a new "grown-up," he is probably not completely adjusted to the feeling of you being in charge - of him having no final say so in what you do. Imagine the panic he must be feeling.

God is calling you to religious life but also to charity, right now, in this moment. It would not be love for you to refuse God's will in order to please your father. But neither would it be charity to insist or throw the hammer down, simply in order to achieve the circumstances or time table you think is ideal. That's true in most cases - but I think especially in your case, with your Mom having gone.

So --- my thought is, when you go home, be ready to be firm, but also be open to compromise. He wants you to finish school - you want to drop out and work. Perhaps transferring to a less expensive state school, or a community college, or going part time/working part time would be a good compromise. You don't want to wait until 30 -- but maybe agreeing to a 6 month think-about-it period would work?

If you show him that you are not hell-bent (lol) ... that you can still be "reasoned" with, that he still has input on what is going on with you -- that will take a lot of the panic away, and make it more likely that he will get used to the idea of you in the cloister.

Edited June 4, 2012 by Lilllabettt

[InPersonaChriste]

Prayers!

[TheresaThoma]

Parents can be very tough to handle. I've been through this three times over and I still don't have any solid answers yet, but I'm getting there.
For one your dad is probably really hurting right now. From skimming your article its been just over a year since your mom died and he is still probably mourning her.Be gentle with him. Be willing to compromise you want to rush right off to the convent ASAP but that isn't the wisest choice. Waiting 6 months to a year while you go to a cheaper college and work part time might be good for the both of you.
My other question is what does the community think of all of this? Obviously you are pretty far along if you did an asiprancy but it still would be good to see where the community sees your discernment going. They may want you to wait or be able to give you some guidance.
Prayers for you!

[cappie]

When I wanted to be a priest my mother was deeply opposed. I wanted to enter the Diocesan seminary at the end of school which in Australia is the age of 12. My mother steadfastly refused. Now my parents were practising Catholics indeed my mother did secretarial work for the parish priest. In my time you were not considered an adult until you were 21 years old. I was sure I was being called to the priesthood so I wrote to the Archbishop of Sydney who at the time was Cardinal Gilroy. He had known my father when he was an assistant pastor. He wrote back to me saying :"Obedience to the will of your mother will always bring a greater blessing from God." I decided to wait until I was 21 so I got a job. Cut a long story short I entered the Capuchins aged 22 (my mother was still opposed so only accepted the reality 6 years after my ordination) and am very happy now I have been a Capuchin for 36 years and a priest 28. The Cardinal's words were prophetic.

Now I am not you but this is my story. Make of it what you will [img]http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/public/style_emoticons/default/razzle dazzle.png[/img]

Edited June 4, 2012 by cappie

[OnlySunshine]

I echo what others have said here. I was brought up in the Catholic faith from birth but lost interest in my teenage years and then completely fell away when I graduated high school. I suffered confusion and doubt for a long time because I didn't know if Catholicism was really where I belonged. I looked in different faiths and found no answers -- only emptiness. When I attended a young adult retreat in December 2007, I experienced my reversion to the faith during a healing Eucharistic Procession and subsequently went to Confession. That was the same night that I began discernment. I've been discerning off and on ever since.

The reason why I bring this up is because I've been where you are today. I thought I was ready to give up everything and enter the convent without a second thought so, when I thought I found the order in February 2009, I applied after only one visit but realized I made a swift decision without much thought. It was a humbling process and made me realize that I needed to slow down because I was still very much a baby in the process -- both in discernment and re-learning my faith.

Right now is a testing of your obedience to your Father in heaven and your earthly father. You want to do God's will but maybe it is necessary for you to slow down and give your earthly father the support he needs after the death of your mother. Parents want nothing but the best for their children and he is concerned. While I don't think it is prudent to wait 10 years before answering the call, it might be wise to wait 6 months to a year before pursuing religious life seriously. Most converts to the faith are not admitted to enter the priesthood or religious life until after 2 to 3 years (sometimes longer). I think this is good because it helps to get rid of "convert zeal" and discover if you really possess the call to religious life.

Take this time to devote yourself to prayer and spiritual study. If you need to have someone to look up to, look to St. Therese of Lisieux. She desired to enter the Carmelite cloister at the unusual age of 15. After gaining the Bishop's approval, she still had to wait 3 months before she could enter. During that time, she served her family and others in little acts by denying her self-will. I just watched the movie from 2004 again and she states, "At first, I didn't know how I would bear the next 3 months. But I was so grateful to God that I gave myself up to a life of sacrifice. This is not to say that I performed great deeds. My sacrifices consisted of giving up my will in little things that no one noticed. And I cannot express how much this waiting left me with such sweet memories."

I pray that your discussion with your father will work out. Be firm but gentle and be ready for a compromise. Let God speak to you through your father. We are called to honor our parents. You are an adult, so you are capable of input in decisions regarding your future, but this just might be a way to show God that you want to devote yourself to a life of poverty, chastity, and [b]obedience[/b] in religious life.

[savvy]

I am discerning monastic life too. I came across this community after discerning with other orders. I am glad that I had the time, because monastic life requires a certain level of maturity.

It's important to be as educated as you want to be, because a few years down the line, when you have to do menial tasks, when your peers have careers can be depressing for some. In active orders, your mind is diverted by time spent in the apostolate.

This does not apply to everybody, but just make sure that you won't have regrets down the line when it comes to education, opportunities etc.

[emmaberry]

[quote name='Safia' timestamp='1338768657' post='2440372']
Hey y'all!

Short story: I reverted to Catholicism in September. Began discernment in November. Visited a community in January, again in March, and completed a 3.5-week aspirancy today. God is calling me to religious life. I've no doubt. (Long story [url="http://theworldafire.blogspot.com/2012/06/extensive-vocation-story-part-i.html"]here[/url], if you're interested.)

I've completed two years of university.

I'm heading home on Friday to talk this through with my dad. I talked with him on the phone today, and he flipped out. (I knew he would.) I need suggestions on how to handle this; I'm terrified. [b]He wants me to finish college (and, ideally, wait until I'm 30, to make sure I "still have" the vocation, as if what I know and feel and have experienced is merely adrenaline. And he's a devout Catholic.)[/b]

Problem #2: I'm not interested in anything remotely secular anymore. God is my life. (I really am positive of this vocation. I yearn for the Lord, to give Him everything.)

[b]I'm a deeply changed person, within a short space of time, and I think part of this is that my dad doesn't recognize me.[/b]
[/quote]

This. My dad is EXACTLY the same way. Finish school, see if you still have a vocation. AKA it will fade with time. This is so frustrating and I'm sorry you're having to experience it.

The best advice I can give, when I am in the same position you are in, is to take your dad's authority and opinions graciously into account, and then move on with your own life in the plan God has for you. I struggled because I thought, "if my dad is not okay with this, does that mean I am being disobedient by discerning further?" At your age, the answer is no. Something that helps me with this is the fifth Joyful mystery of the Rosary, the finding of Jesus in the temple. Mary and Joseph were all upset when they found Jesus, and He didn't say, "I'm so sorry that I wasn't exactly where you wanted me to be!" He said, "Did you not know that I would be in My Father's House?" If God is calling to His house, be obedient to Him first, and know you are doing the right thing.<--It sounds like you are already doing this.

It is so sad the way Satan can use those closest to us to try to erase our vocation! Prayers.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1338823567' post='2440576']
This. My dad is EXACTLY the same way. Finish school, see if you still have a vocation. AKA it will fade with time. This is so frustrating and I'm sorry you're having to experience it.

The best advice I can give, when I am in the same position you are in, is to take your dad's authority and opinions graciously into account, and then move on with your own life in the plan God has for you. I struggled because I thought, "if my dad is not okay with this, does that mean I am being disobedient by discerning further?" At your age, the answer is no. Something that helps me with this is the fifth Joyful mystery of the Rosary, the finding of Jesus in the temple. Mary and Joseph were all upset when they found Jesus, and He didn't say, "I'm so sorry that I wasn't exactly where you wanted me to be!" He said, "Did you not know that I would be in My Father's House?" If God is calling to His house, be obedient to Him first, and know you are doing the right thing.<--It sounds like you are already doing this.

[b]It is so sad the way Satan can use those closest to us to try to erase our vocation! Prayers.[/b]
[/quote]

While what you said up until the bolded part is valid, the bolded part gives me cause for concern. I think there is danger in believing that satan has power over our closest relatives and friends to try to dissuade us from following God. It's almost like saying that satan is in them or something. I don't know if this is what you meant, or if you meant that people speaking us can bring up doubts, so I want to give you the benefit of the doubt. Doubts are a very natural part of the human experience because of original sin. Yes, satan can play into those doubts but I don't think God would allow him to possess our confidants in order to grab us away from serving God. There's only so much God will allow. Remember, He gave us free will. What we do with it is for us to decide -- good or bad.

***edited because I misspelled a word

Edited June 4, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[Lilllabettt]

[quote name='emmaberry' timestamp='1338823567' post='2440576']
If God is calling to His house, be obedient to Him first, and know you are doing the right thing.<--It sounds like you are already doing this.
[/quote]

We should always be obedient to God first ... the problem is in making the distinction betweeen what God asks and what our preferences are. In the 5th Joyful mystery, our Lord's will was perfectly united to the Father. His will was also His will, and Jesus could go forward doing what he desired certain of that. But we are not Jesus. The question is not: what would Jesus do, but rather: what would Jesus have me do?
[quote]

It is so sad the way Satan can use those closest to us to try to erase our vocation! Prayers.
[/quote]
The Devil does not like people enterinng consecrated life. But attributing parental anguish to demonic influence is a little inappropriate I think. The resistance here also seems relatively mild -- "wait" and "finish college first" -- not "do that and you're dead to me."

Edited June 4, 2012 by Lilllabettt

[emmaberry]

I understand the cause for concern in the 2 posts above me--but, if my family had it their way, I would not be following my religious vocation. I have heard from superiors above me that Satan can discourage vocations using the people closest to us. I didn't know this was a 'concerning' concept. Of course I don't think my dad is possessed by Satan! I guess the way I was saying Satan can 'use' people was more slang, and it was read more literally. Sorry if I shocked anyone! I do find it strange though, doesn't Satan, along with our fallen human state, make us act in disobedience to God's Will? I have been counseled by spiritual directors that Satan is on the hunt trying to discourage vocations...I think he can do this in sneaky ways by just getting people off track and thinking about worldly things. Hope that cleared that sentence up.
^thanks for the benefit of the doubt, Mater! Things can come across very differently on the internet than how you intend them to!

Lillabettt: Of course we should follow God's will! I wasn't saying everyone should be a cloistered nun living their whole lives within the temple of God. I meant that Jesus unapologetically followed God's will, and so should we.

Edited June 4, 2012 by emmaberry

[cmotherofpirl]

[quote name='Safia' timestamp='1338768657' post='2440372']
Hey y'all!

Short story: I reverted to Catholicism in September. Began discernment in November. Visited a community in January, again in March, and completed a 3.5-week aspirancy today. God is calling me to religious life. I've no doubt. (Long story [url="http://theworldafire.blogspot.com/2012/06/extensive-vocation-story-part-i.html"]here[/url], if you're interested.)

I've completed two years of university.

I'm heading home on Friday to talk this through with my dad. I talked with him on the phone today, and he flipped out. (I knew he would.) I need suggestions on how to handle this; I'm terrified. He wants me to finish college (and, ideally, wait until I'm 30, to make sure I "still have" the vocation, as if what I know and feel and have experienced is merely adrenaline. And he's a devout Catholic.)

My mom passed away last May 20th, and that adds another level of stress.

Problem #1: My university is super expensive, which means lots of loans, for him and for me.

Problem #2: I'm not interested in anything remotely secular anymore. God is my life. (I really am positive of this vocation. I yearn for the Lord, to give Him everything.)

I'm a deeply changed person, within a short space of time, and I think part of this is that my dad doesn't recognize me.

I'm going home for four days. In those four days, I really need to get his blessing. I'll need to be able to move home to work and chip in toward paying off the loans he took out for me.

What do I say?! Has anyone experienced this problem?

If you're a parent, what could you have heard to help you?

Prayers would be helpful too: for him!

Thanks!
[/quote]

If your vocation is from God it will still be there in 4 days, 4 weeks, 4 months and 4 years. Slow down and let God work on your father.

[Safia]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, guys. This has given me stuff to think about and consider, but St. Thomas Aquinas wrote -- I believe it was STA; I read a lot during my aspirancy -- that to wait to pursue a vocation like this can be detrimental to the individual, one, and that no one should make God wait if He is calling. Anyone who urges waiting is looking at it from a worldly POV. Christ Himself:[/font][/size]

[quote][size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]When Jesus heard this, he said to him, "You still lack one thing. Sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."[/background][/color][/font][/size][/quote]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]There is nothing about our time that makes this command less worthy or immediate. [/background][/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]([/background][/color][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]I'm not not disagreeing with you all! Just my thoughts. And I get it. I really do. We'll see how this weekend's trip home goes.)[/background][/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]This song most perfectly describes how I feel right now:[/background][/color][/font][/size]

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he32vwlKQPY&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=he32vwlKQPY&feature=player_embedded[/url]

Edited June 4, 2012 by Safia

[Briananne]

My Spiritual Father told me that the devil tries his best to delay entrances into monasteries because he knows the many graces that will come from it. If you know that you know that you know, then go. But I say leave your dad in peace.. try to talk to him and have him understand. My Spiritual Father also asked me (when I was going through a similar situation as yours Safia) "Who will and can take better care of your Aunty, you or God?" You can aks yoursef the same questions.. Parents usually say that they love religious vocations and they may even pray for them, but when it comes to their own children it may be difficult because they become attached to you.. remind him in a kind and gentle way that you are God's more than his.. And have fun with your dad while you can. Create memorable times with him and begin preparing him little by little.. although the big shock has just passed. Trust in God and give the situation to Mary. Our Lady is such a good Mother and I am sure she will bring peace to your home. Praying for you to be prudent and make the right decisions centered on Christ.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Safia' timestamp='1338838099' post='2440715']
[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks, guys. This has given me stuff to think about and consider, but St. Thomas Aquinas wrote -- I believe it was STA; I read a lot during my aspirancy -- that to wait to pursue a vocation like this can be detrimental to the individual, one, and that no one should make God wait if He is calling. Anyone who urges waiting is looking at it from a worldly POV. Christ Himself:[/font][/size]



[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]There is nothing about our time that makes this command less worthy or immediate. [/background][/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]([/background][/color][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]I'm not not disagreeing with you all! Just my thoughts. And I get it. I really do. We'll see how this weekend's trip home goes.)[/background][/color][/font][/size]

[size=4][font=arial, helvetica, sans-serif][color=#001320][background=rgb(249, 253, 255)]This song most perfectly describes how I feel right now:[/background][/color][/font][/size]


[/quote]

I'm sorry if it didn't come out right. If everything is falling into place and you are accepted by the community, then I would say to go. But if you are still having to look and search for the right one, then you should take some time. We on PM only know you from what you write. Having an in-person spiritual director is best because they know you and can give you advice pertaining to your situation. Best wishes to you!

Edited June 4, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[Lilllabettt]

At first you say that: "anyone who urges waiting is looking at it from a worldly POV" and then you say but "I'm not disagreeing with you" ...

LOL! Are you a peacemaker type?

The title of the thread you started is "how to talk to my dad?" You asked for advice about how you could talk to your Dad to help him understand - to get his blessing. You can be sure that making him feel like it is your way or the highway - that you are going to enter right HERE and right NOW and there is nothing he can do about it - will NOT get you your blessing. It will just harden his position and maybe even radicalize him against your call.

You know, you say he is a devout Catholic. If that's true, then odds are -- he will eventually come around. If you approach the situation with compassion, it will be sooner rather than later, with less pain for him and for yourself.

MM gives you good advice. You could benefit from a spiritual director.

[Maggyie]

You will have plenty of loans so it will be a while before you can enter, anyway, I'm guessing?

Seems to me there are 2 main ways you can get off track discerning: Either becoming a Perpetual Discerner, lacking the ability to make a decision, or becoming one of the rushrushhurrys who makes decisions on the fly. Too slow or too fast.

To me the one possible red flag in your story is that you have only been back to the Church an extremely short time. Many wise communities require you to be a practicing Catholic for at least 2 years, whether you come via adult baptism or reversion. That is because they know from experience that the vast majority of people who enter religious life earlier than that, do NOT persevere. They go out as quickly as they came in.

I know one discerner who was unwilling to accept this and "shopped around" until she found a community desperate enough for vocations that they didn't want her to wait. She was so sure! Her heart was on fire for God. It didn't work out and in fact she was so traumatized that she lost the faith she had just been baptized in. If only she had waited and grown deeper in her new identity as a Christian. She should have focused on building a stronger foundation, first.

My advice would be to quit your expensive college and tell your father you will finish at a state school or community college. Much better if you can commute to school and live at home. You can work part-time and go to school part-time, so that loans don't accumulate, and this will give your father time to get used to the idea of your vocation and you will have time to become an "adult" Catholic (as opposed to a very new one). Both parties will have time and space to mature.

Certainly don't stay at an expensive college - with the economy being the way it is, that's not a good idea anyway. Try to show your father that you are being very practical in this matter. A college education, cheaply acquired, is extremely valuable but it needs to be affordable to be worthwhile whether you persevere in religious life or not.

[srmariam]

Im another who would suggest slowing down a little. Have you heard the phrase 'zeal of a convert'? Its very easy - and natural - to feel extremely passionate and certain when you are in the first waves of love with God, just like it is with another person. Theses feelings are good, but not really what you need to found a longterm commitment. Allow your love to grow and mature a little, and you will be able to see more clearly how best to progress. Also, remember you will always be your fathers daughter, and [i]should[/i] religious life not work out for you, you will need his support.

I also have a lot to say about the 2 Carmelite constitutions, but thats maybe for another day. God bless.

[AnneLine]

Safia, I'm not sure any of us have given you much of a welcome before we started telling you what to do... that's Phamily for you! Please know that we you!!!!!

I know you and the Nuns will work together to discern this well, but a lot of us have had our own good & bad experiences on this one. Most of us who rushed into things have lived to wish we'd taken a bit more time. And first fervor can be hard to sustain.

I entered a community in my mid-20s, and I am grateful for every moment I spent discerning with them (before, during and afterI left). In retrospect, I wish I had waited a little longer and been a little more sensitive to the needs of my parents (as my abruptness caused them great spiritual and emotional pain).

After I waited a while (it is hard to enter and leave, even when at peace with the decision), I also discerned with a second community, and came close to entering with them. I had completed my interviews and my psych evaluation. I was VERY ready to go... NOW!!!!!!

However, my mother was diagnosed with terminal breast cancer at that point, and; the sisters informed me that, while I was welcome to continue discerning with them, and that they would be there for me every way they could spiritually and emotionally, they would not consider my entering until at least one year after my mother's death... for my own grieving and for that of my father. They also said that I needed to be very sensitive of his needs, and that perhaps he would need me to be out a little longer than a year. They helped me to remember that the main purpose of any religious vocation was to bring myself and others into loving relationship with God, and that God's timing was what I sought -- and that He would make clear to me what He wanted. During those months, God made it very clear that while He wanted me to have had the experience of discerning with the second community, He desired me to remain a lay person, and a member of a Secular Order. God knew what He was doing. I am grateful for His loving help.

God's timing is always beautiful and He will speak in it. Keep on discerning & paying down your debt; show your father every bit of God's love that you can.... when the time is right way will open so you can serve God most completely, either in the monastery or somewhere else. He has things for you to do right now... this is not wasted time.


Welcome, Sr. Mariam -- why not open a 'new to Phatmass / Vocation Station' thread for us to get to know you a bit and to greet you as well?

BTW -- You might want to use the search box at the top of the phorum pages to search the 1990-1991 Carmelites discussion threads -- it's been discussed a lot and you might want to at least look at those to see what has already been said; then we will be happy to hear what you have to share, too!