The Nun's Story (spoiler Alert!)

[OnlySunshine]

Last night, for the first time ever, I finally watched "The Nun's Story" with Audrey Hepburn. I remembered there was talk about it here and I didn't know if I wanted to see it because of the ending. But I loved it and found it very interesting. I felt so bad for Sr. Luke when she was working in the sanitarium and the patient attacked her. I also was horrified when the other Sister was murdered by the Congo native.

The ending really grabbed me. I was horrified when she felt she needed to leave the convent, but at the same time, I understood. It's just so difficult to watch a Sister leave after making final vows.

Anyway, I really enjoyed it. Have any of you seen it?

[OnlySunshine]

Oh, one thing I was wondering is:

[b]Why did the nuns keep the sanitarium patients in the baths for 4-6 hours a day?[/b]

I didn't understand the need to keep them in there that long. I felt bad for the Sister that had to stay in there and listening to their screaming. It made me shudder and think of hell. I wouldn't be able to work in those conditions because I'd easily lose my mind.

[Queen'sDaughter]

I have seen it, and I think that it is an interesting portrayal of religious life. As for the sanitarium patients, in the time frame that movie is set, that was actually considered a legit treatment for calming violent patients. Thank goodness it isn't any more!


I guess I really don't like the movie because I know the story of the actual nun that the movie is based off of. And it is NOT pleasant.

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='Queen'sDaughter' timestamp='1338949625' post='2441607']
I have seen it, and I think that it is an interesting portrayal of religious life. As for the sanitarium patients, in the time frame that movie is set, that was actually considered a legit treatment for calming violent patients. Thank goodness it isn't any more!


I guess I really don't like the movie because I know the story of the actual nun that the movie is based off of. And it is NOT pleasant.
[/quote]

Yes, it's like an evolution of psychiatric medicine. I cannot imagine being kept in a bathtub for hours on end, screaming my head off. I also don't like the fact that they kept the schizophrenics locked up like prisoners. It could easily make them much more insane because they are brooding alone. I know that "Archangel Gabriel" was violent and needed to be contained, but it seems barbaric to keep her locked up.

I know what you mean about Kathryn Hulme. I heard the controversial outcome of her life and I don't like it either. However, the book is really interesting.

[Strictlyinkblot]

I saw that film for the first time a few weeks ago. I thought that, despite the very strict rules the humanity of the sisters shone through. And yes, baths were considered a legitimate treatment. So were inducing insulin comas, by giving them injections of insulin, dunking them in ice-cold water and labotomies. ECT (electo-convulsive therapy) was another common treatment but its still used today (in a much more humane fashion) because for some people with serious depression it works very well.

[TIWW]

Religious Communities in the 1940's and 1950's are virtually unrecognizable from what they were then to today. Many of the active orders were much more structured, rigid and lived out the charism from which they originated. The Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary were a very strict active order. Active orders today who were originally formed to be teachers, nurses or missionaries, rarely follow that tradition today. Take the School Sisters of Notre Dame, who were teachers. Most of their schools are now closed, some may still teach or do Religious ED, but most do not. Vatican II changed how active communities lived, they got away from communal living, prayer and goals to do what they wanted to do, and many now live in apartments and have a salary. Of course the numbers are about 1/10th what they were then.

[Antigonos]

[quote name='MaterMisericordiae' timestamp='1338949323' post='2441605']
Oh, one thing I was wondering is:

[b]Why did the nuns keep the sanitarium patients in the baths for 4-6 hours a day?[/b]

I didn't understand the need to keep them in there that long. I felt bad for the Sister that had to stay in there and listening to their screaming. It made me shudder and think of hell. I wouldn't be able to work in those conditions because I'd easily lose my mind.
[/quote]

The period of the film [and book] was from 1927 to the middle of WWII. Prior to 1954, there were NO anti-psychotic drugs. [Until the end of the war, there weren't even any antibiotics -- can you imagine a world without them? Penicillin became commercially available only in 1946] Restraint or the use of "calming" techniques such as warm baths were the only treatments for the seriously, and violent, psychotic. Severe illnesses like schizophrenia are not amenable to psychotherapy, which, in those days, was available only to a very few wealthy persons in any case.

[maximillion]

It's good to see the posts putting the film in it's historical context...........
Compare it with some of the DVD's we have now, Of God's and Men, Into Great Silence etc......
It is not only the communities who have changed, so have the film makers.

[Sister Marie]

[quote name='TIWW' timestamp='1338959651' post='2441659']
Religious Communities in the 1940's and 1950's are virtually unrecognizable from what they were then to today. Many of the active orders were much more structured, rigid and lived out the charism from which they originated. The Sisters of Charity of Jesus and Mary were a very strict active order. Active orders today who were originally formed to be teachers, nurses or missionaries, rarely follow that tradition today. Take the School Sisters of Notre Dame, who were teachers. Most of their schools are now closed, some may still teach or do Religious ED, but most do not. Vatican II changed how active communities lived, they got away from communal living, prayer and goals to do what they wanted to do, and many now live in apartments and have a salary. Of course the numbers are about 1/10th what they were then.
[/quote]

I think you are correct in identifying Vatican II as the changing point of apostolic religious life however I do take some issue with what you see as the result of that. Apostolic religious life IS NOT monastic life nor should it be. For a long time in the church though, apostolic women religious were forced to adopt monastic horariums and practices that were unsuitable for the apostolate. The vocation to a monastic or contemplative community is different from the vocation to an apostolic community. Apostolic sisters are called to grow in holiness through apostolic sanctity. Their work is intimately tied to their life with Christ, in community and to holiness - it isn't an "add-on" to religious life but is intrinsic to the vocation of the apostolic sister.

If I could give myself as an example - I'm an apostolic sister and a teacher. I live in a convent with other sisters and with the Eucharist present in our Chapel. I pray with the sisters in my community each day; morning prayer and evening prayer. We eat dinner together after evening prayer each night. I have a holy hour but it is on our own because, while I am a full time middle school teacher, in my convent we also have a full time DRE (who is most often working at night), a full time principal, and a tutor. That means each of us has very different time demands on our schedules so we are responsible to fulfill the other prayer requirements of our community in our own time. It would be ridiculous for me to wake up in the middle of the night to say prayers when I work a full time job. I couldn't leave my class alone because the "bell" rang for me to go do something in the convent (I might not have a class when I get back!).

Some communities reacted instead of responded to the changes of Vatican II because of their bad experiences in trying to be both apostolic and monastic at the same time - it's impossible and they are two different types of religious life!

Just be careful that you are not confusing the difference between apostolic and monastic with the difference between faithful and not.

[Sister Marie]

I forgot to say too, receiving a salary is common for sisters who work in professional fields like nursing and education. It was common to receive a salary before vatican II for these services. How else did the community pay for food, medicine, and other supplies? I receive a salary but it goes to my community.

Most sisters who live in apartments do not receive their salary and spend it as they wish - they give it to their community and then receive a stipend to use for living expenses. Whether it is right or wrong for them to live alone is not my point (in certain cases and for a limited amount of time the Church does allow religious to live alone - study is an example of this), I just don't want wrong information being given about these sisters.

[HopefulBride]

[quote name='Queen'sDaughter' timestamp='1338949625' post='2441607']
I have seen it, and I think that it is an interesting portrayal of religious life. As for the sanitarium patients, in the time frame that movie is set, that was actually considered a legit treatment for calming violent patients. Thank goodness it isn't any more!


I guess I really don't like the movie because I know the story of the actual nun that the movie is based off of. And it is NOT pleasant.
[/quote]


The movie is actually based on a real nun's story?

[maximillion]

Yes.


[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3][i][b]The Nun's Story[/b][/i] is a 1959 [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Brothers"]Warner Brothers[/url] film directed by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Zinnemann"]Fred Zinnemann[/url] and starring [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Hepburn"]Audrey Hepburn[/url]. Based upon [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nun%27s_Story"]the 1956 novel of the same title[/url] by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Hulme"]Kathryn Hulme[/url], the story tells of the life of Sister Luke (Hepburn), a young [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium"]Belgian[/url] woman who decides to enter a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent"]convent[/url] and make the many sacrifices required by her choice. However, at the outset of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url], finds she cannot remain neutral in the face of the abject evil of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler"]Hitler[/url]'s[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany"]Germany[/url].[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]The book was based upon the life of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets"]Marie Louise Habets[/url], a Belgian nurse who similarly spent time as a nun. The film follows the book fairly closely, although some critics believe the film shows [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_tension"]sexual tension[/url] in the relationship between Dr. Fortunati ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Finch"]Peter Finch[/url]) and Sister Luke that is absent from the novel.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]Also[/size][/font][/color]


Hulme’s 1966 autobiography [i]Undiscovered Country[/i] describes Hulme and Habets’ first meeting in 1945. Both were volunteers with the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) an [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#"]international[/url] project working to resettle refugees and others displaced by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url].
Hulme recalls in her autobiography how, at a training camp in northern [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France"]France[/url], she became aware of a Belgian female colleague who spent most of her time asleep. Even when awake, the woman, a nurse, was taciturn, solitary and preoccupied, almost antisocial. In time, however, the Belgian nurse revealed herself as a diligent worker, a good friend, and a woman with a secret: she had just left a convent after 17 years of struggle with its holy [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#"]rule[/url]. She felt burdened and depressed by a sense of having failed.
Zoe Fairbairns’ article [i]The Nun’s True Story[/i] and Fairbairns’ radio play [i]The Belgian Nurse[/i], broadcast in 2007 on the BBC, tell the story of how Habets’s story became Hulme’s bestseller and how the two women became partners and shared a home and a life for nearly 40 years.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#cite_note-0"][1][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#cite_note-1"][2][/url][/sup] Their parallel lives are explored in [i]The Nun and the Crocodile: the Stories within The Nun's Story[/i], a paper given by Debra Campbell at the Women and Religion section of the American Academy of Religion Annual Meeting on November 21, 2004.


And
[url="http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm"]http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm[/url]

Edited June 6, 2012 by maximillion

[Gemma]

[quote name='maximillion' timestamp='1338988007' post='2441725']
Yes.


[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3][i][b]The Nun's Story[/b][/i] is a 1959 [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warner_Brothers"]Warner Brothers[/url] film directed by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Zinnemann"]Fred Zinnemann[/url] and starring [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audrey_Hepburn"]Audrey Hepburn[/url]. Based upon [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Nun%27s_Story"]the 1956 novel of the same title[/url] by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathryn_Hulme"]Kathryn Hulme[/url], the story tells of the life of Sister Luke (Hepburn), a young [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium"]Belgian[/url] woman who decides to enter a [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent"]convent[/url] and make the many sacrifices required by her choice. However, at the outset of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url], finds she cannot remain neutral in the face of the abject evil of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler"]Hitler[/url]'s[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Germany"]Germany[/url].[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]The book was based upon the life of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets"]Marie Louise Habets[/url], a Belgian nurse who similarly spent time as a nun. The film follows the book fairly closely, although some critics believe the film shows [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_tension"]sexual tension[/url] in the relationship between Dr. Fortunati ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Finch"]Peter Finch[/url]) and Sister Luke that is absent from the novel.[/size][/font][/color]

[color=#000000][font=sans-serif][size=3]Also[/size][/font][/color]


Hulme’s 1966 autobiography [i]Undiscovered Country[/i] describes Hulme and Habets’ first meeting in 1945. Both were volunteers with the United Nations Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (UNRRA) an [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#"]international[/url] project working to resettle refugees and others displaced by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II"]World War II[/url].
Hulme recalls in her autobiography how, at a training camp in northern [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France"]France[/url], she became aware of a Belgian female colleague who spent most of her time asleep. Even when awake, the woman, a nurse, was taciturn, solitary and preoccupied, almost antisocial. In time, however, the Belgian nurse revealed herself as a diligent worker, a good friend, and a woman with a secret: she had just left a convent after 17 years of struggle with its holy [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#"]rule[/url]. She felt burdened and depressed by a sense of having failed.
Zoe Fairbairns’ article [i]The Nun’s True Story[/i] and Fairbairns’ radio play [i]The Belgian Nurse[/i], broadcast in 2007 on the BBC, tell the story of how Habets’s story became Hulme’s bestseller and how the two women became partners and shared a home and a life for nearly 40 years.[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#cite_note-0"][1][/url][/sup][sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marie_Louise_Habets#cite_note-1"][2][/url][/sup] Their parallel lives are explored in [i]The Nun and the Crocodile: the Stories within The Nun's Story[/i], a paper given by Debra Campbell at the Women and Religion section of the American Academy of Religion Annual Meeting on November 21, 2004.


And
[url="http://www.zoefairbairns.co.uk/nunsstory.htm"]http://www.zoefairba...k/nunsstory.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Yes, I've heard the backstory on [i]The Nun's Story[/i], and am quickly coming to the conclusion that religious life in the US was different from that of Belgium. I've heard so many say that the book did not portray religious life accurately, yet it was based on a nun's experience.

Poor Ms. Habets! Hatred for Hitler's actions is different from hatred for Hitler as a person.

Now, my question is, how did the story do harm to religious life in America? These critics keep squawking, but never make precision hits.

Blessings,
Gemma

[Antigonos]

[quote name='Gemma' timestamp='1339152267' post='2442471']


Yes, I've heard the backstory on [i]The Nun's Story[/i], and am quickly coming to the conclusion that religious life in the US was different from that of Belgium. I've heard so many say that the book did not portray religious life accurately, yet it was based on a nun's experience.

Blessings,
Gemma
[/quote]

If what I read is any indication, religious life is, even today, different in Europe than the US -- more traditional, more conservative. And life in general 80 years ago for women was more circumscribed. I remember my mother telling me how thrilled she was when she bought her first pair of slacks, when she was in her 30s -- she was born in 1906.

[savvy]

[quote]If what I read is any indication, religious life is, even today, different in Europe than the US -- more traditional, more conservative. [/quote]

I am not sure I would agree with this. The order I am discerning with now, was founded in Europe. They do not have a foundation in the US, just Canada. They are a lot less austere than the American orders I have met. Esp. for monastics. But, then again they are a young community and have not been around long. The sisters are also well-travellled and speak multiple languages.