Burn A CD?Why Not Just Steal One.

[ilovechrist]

i've had a lot of trouble with this issue...
burning a cd that you did not buy is stealing. any cd that you burn and sell to someone for profit is stealing. if you make your own mixes of your own songs, or burn copies of your own cd's so that you can preserve the original, it's NOT stealing.

[Fiat_Voluntas_Tua]

I must have stated the question wrong...

I would agree that if you buy the CD and burn a copy for your car...or a back up incase you scrath one, than it is ok...

But if you borrow a cd from a friend and copy it then it is bad news...

My friend burnt me a cd of this band i have never heard of...to see if i would like them...I ended up liking them but i was obligated to dispose of the CD because i didn't purchase it. CD burning is wonderful...IF DONE LEGALLY!

Pax et Agape per Mariam, Andy

[traichuoi]

i voted no because back in the day, your bf would make you a mixed tape or you would make him one...

now, with this new technology we use CDs...i never thought of taping songs as bad so why would burning them be different?

[Philippe]

*knows is wrong but votes no so he feels better* *bangs head on wall*

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='thywillbedone7' date='May 17 2004, 10:53 PM'] CD burning is wonderful...IF DONE LEGALLY! [/quote]


i'm going to quote you on that later... i've run into the same problem.. a friend of mine gave me Jane Foresight's cd to listen to.. i loved it.. so i spent 10 bucks and bought the original


trachuoi.. it's mainly a question of if you are ripping off the artist or not.. that's why there's such a big hullabaloo.

[p0lar_bear]

OK, my mother tends to want copies of really obscure old songs. There was one particular song she couldn't find anywhere. She looked for compilation CD, tried to find who the artist was, who owned the rights, etc. The only place she managed to find it was as an mp3 online. Now, was it unethical for her to download it? The song, I'm sure, is still copyrighted, but there was no opportunity to purchase it as copyright laws would dictate.

[ilovechrist]

p0lar..
look at the site... i'm guessing it's a free download. if you can't find it ANYWHERE else, try talking to the webmaster, and see what he knows about it. don't download it for free... it depends how old it is to see if it's still copyrighted or not.

[Colleen]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='May 18 2004, 09:10 AM'] OK, my mother tends to want copies of really obscure old songs. There was one particular song she couldn't find anywhere. She looked for compilation CD, tried to find who the artist was, who owned the rights, etc. The only place she managed to find it was as an mp3 online. Now, was it unethical for her to download it? The song, I'm sure, is still copyrighted, but there was no opportunity to purchase it as copyright laws would dictate. [/quote]
Well, in that case, since it's out of print, no one is making money off it, right? So wouldn't that be okay? Since there's really no way to buy it any other way?

[Paladin D]

D'oh! I misread the question and I voted [b]no[/b], by mistake. :skitzo:

[jasJis]

[quote name='Colleen' date='May 21 2004, 12:41 PM'] Well, in that case, since it's out of print, no one is making money off it, right? So wouldn't that be okay? Since there's really no way to buy it any other way? [/quote]
How do you know nobody is making $$ off of it? But your logic is fundamentally sound. If you aren't taking away the right to make $$ off something that is owned by somebody else, then it seems less likely that you are causing harm. You also have to consider if you are contributing to the ability of the Laws of the Land to protect the Rights of the Producer. That's the moral choice that you have to carefully consider.

[Sojourner]

[quote name='p0lar_bear' date='May 18 2004, 09:10 AM'] OK, my mother tends to want copies of really obscure old songs. There was one particular song she couldn't find anywhere. She looked for compilation CD, tried to find who the artist was, who owned the rights, etc. The only place she managed to find it was as an mp3 online. Now, was it unethical for her to download it? The song, I'm sure, is still copyrighted, but there was no opportunity to purchase it as copyright laws would dictate. [/quote]
OK, according to the U.S. Copyright Office:
[quote]Under the law in effect before 1978, copyright was secured either on the date a work was published with a copyright notice or on the date of registration if the work was registered in unpublished form. In either case, the copyright endured for a first term of 28 years from the date it was secured. During the last (28th) year of the first term, the copyright was eligible for renewal. The Copyright Act of 1976 extended the renewal term from 28 to 47 years for copyrights that were subsisting on January 1, 1978, or for pre-1978 copyrights restored under the Uruguay Round Agreements Act (URAA), making these works eligible for a total term of protection of 75 years. Public Law 105-298, enacted on October 27, 1998, further extended the renewal term of copyrights still subsisting on that date by an additional 20 years, providing for a renewal term of 67 years and a total term of protection of 95 years.

Public Law 102-307, enacted on June 26, 1992, amended the 1976 Copyright Act to provide for automatic renewal of the term of copyrights secured between January 1, 1964, and December 31, 1977. Although the renewal term is automatically provided, the Copyright Office does not issue a renewal certificate for these works unless a renewal application and fee are received and registered in the Copyright Office.

Public Law 102-307 makes renewal registration optional. Thus, filing for renewal registration is no longer required in order to extend the original 28-year copyright term to the full 95 years. However, some benefits accrue from making a renewal registration during the 28th year of the original term.[/quote]

If the copyright was still in force, then the item was not in the public domain and therefore the same ethical issues we've mentioned earlier in the thread would come into play. If, however, the copyright had expired, and the item is in the public domain, then your mother could fearlessly download away.

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='Paladin D' date='May 21 2004, 01:42 PM'] D'oh! I misread the question and I voted [b]no[/b], by mistake. :skitzo: [/quote]
i'll forgive you paladin..
i'm not so sure what everybody else will do..

thanks for the official documents sojourner, i couldn't find those anywhere!

[crusader1234]

what are the laws in canada?

[azaelia]

I voted no. Why? Because I like Sarah McLachlan's music, but because she supports abortion, I can't buy her album without going against everything I believe in. So I downloaded it and burned it. In other cases, my belief is that music is meant to be listened to. I listen to groups now that I never would have listened to had I not downloaded their music first. I'm sorry but I'm not going to spend what little money I have on a CD I don't even know if I will like. If I like them, I might buy an album, but I need to test the waters first. You know? And sometimes I like only one song from a certain artist, so I make a compilation. I'm not going to buy a whole album for one song. Really it all comes down to money for me.

I don't know if I made any sense. Try to decipher it.

[rachael]

I voted no. People record shows off of tv, so why can't we burn songs? (afterall, you can buy seasons of tv shows in stores)

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='rachael' date='May 21 2004, 11:27 PM'] I voted no. People record shows off of tv, so why can't we burn songs? (afterall, you can buy seasons of tv shows in stores) [/quote]
recording shows--most are illegal, but people do it anyway. on shows, people get their money no matter what to act out a character.

with cd's.. they make money by how many cd's they sell (along with their cheap contract, of course)

that's one way of looking at it.

[ilovechrist]

[quote name='azaelia' date='May 21 2004, 06:28 PM'] I listen to groups now that I never would have listened to had I not downloaded their music first. I'm sorry but I'm not going to spend what little money I have on a CD I don't even know if I will like. If I like them, I might buy an album, but I need to test the waters first. You know? And sometimes I like only one song from a certain artist, so I make a compilation. I'm not going to buy a whole album for one song. Really it all comes down to money for me.

I don't know if I made any sense. Try to decipher it. [/quote]
it's hard.. it's really hard.
i LOVE the Red Hot Chili Peppers' music.. but they support abortion as well. i can confess that i copied one of their cd's, cuz i didn't want to pay the money to support what they support. $$ is also a big factor for me.. but i decided a few months ago that i would start saving up just for cd's that i wanted, and that i knew the artists were great, even if i just liked one song they came out with. it's hard to make sense out of... but you gotta work your way around it, cuz money's not the issue in the end. you have got to remember what they support, even IF their music is AWESOME in your opinion.. you need to stand firm in your faith.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

I just burned two U2 CD's for my brother. If I didn't he would never buy them, and listening to their music may intice him to buy another of their CD's. Is that wrong?

[Sojourner]

Any copying of a copyrighted material without the express permission of the copyright owner is illegal, with certain exceptions.

If you are making a personal copy of something which you purchased, as a backup copy, that's generally OK (personal use). If you are copying something for an educational or research purpose, that's generally ok (fair use).

This area of law -- intellectual property -- has a lot of nuances and is still, in many cases, being developed and refined. In most cases, if you are using a copy of someone elses's CD for your personal use, it is a theft. Will you get prosecuted? Probably not, mainly because there is no way record companies can keep track of everyone who's burning CDs on their home PCs. In other words, like a lot of sins, this is an area in which you must examine your own conscience before God.

There is lots of information online about what the regulations are if you look under personal and fair use exceptions to copyright law;[url="http://www.usg.edu/admin/legal/copyright/"]here is one site that outlines guidelines in this area.[/url]

In response to azaelia, if you don't want to support a certain artist, don't listen to his or her music. This is true for a couple of reasons. First, there is no such thing as "neutral" music. Music is a powerful means of communicating thoughts and ideas, and it helps your brain remember the content of a message. Sarah puts her beliefs into her songs, however subtly. You say you don't agree with the message, but you're allowing that to be planted in your brain.

Second, the ends do not justify the means. You're talking about achieving a good -- not supporting someone who's message you believe is wrong -- by stealing from her.

Third, unless you always listen to Sarah McLachlan in your closet by yourself on your personal CD player, other people probably know you listen to her. Simply by listening, you're supporting her message, and communicating that support to people who know you listen to her.

JasJis said it very well:
[quote]You also have to consider if you are contributing to the ability of the Laws of the Land to protect the Rights of the Producer. That's the moral choice that you have to carefully consider. [/quote]

[CatholicAndFanatical]

this is a tough issue for me as well.

Not sure burning music either but certain software programs as well. Of Course I never hear any spokesmen get up in arms over software just music files. But still the same law holds.

I dont download much music files, they've made it harder to do anyway, most of what you download isnt realy the file you meant for it to be in the first place.

But still, I dont download Albums, just a few songs of an artist, ones I listen to on the radio and dont like the other 13 songs they have on their CD so I just listen to the 1 I like.

now, as for software, im poor..bad excuse I know. Must people like microsoft choose to charge $1500 on a single piece of software. If I want to continue to be a programmer I must have this software and no company is just going to buy it for me so I can learn it. I havent a choice except to cease to be a programmer, which isnt going to happen. Did I stop Bill Gates from buying his 20th car? I doubt it.


But its an issue im dealing with, I know what the copywrites are and with software im allowed to have ANY software, Full or Demo, on my computer for 30 days as an evaluation period, then I must delete or buy the software.

Music, I feel that if you just keep it to a few songs per person it shouldnt be afactor, but if you download Albums instead of going out and buying it,then it hurts everyone in that case.

but my humble opinion..peace