What I Wish I Would Have Known Before Watching P0rn

[PhuturePriest]

I certainly wish I had known these things. It's kind of a double-edged sword for men and women. For women, you're not supposed to talk about it. For men, if you don't talk about it and if you don't watch it, you are seen as a complete weirdo and you are shunned by your peers. It is nice to know I can now think logically again, though. Matthew Fradd has some great stuff on pornography:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RzJGuUdOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8ZdQAIj9U&feature=relmfu

[4588686]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343071808' post='2458174']
Let us be real for a moment shall we? It is more likely you would have jump in even if it wasn't a secular source.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say a secular source, I said because the article was secular. That is it confined itself to the secular realm. I don't care if Catholics think that pornography is evil.

[QUOTE] Because you approve of consuming porn in so-called moderation. [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say that I approve of consuming it in moderation. But I don't think that it is wrong to do so. Depending on external sources. If the individuals participating are being coerced, for example, then I think it would be pretty bad.

[QUOTE]It is also likely you approve because you consume it, rather than manning up and admit this error which degrades you and anyone else involved with its production and consumption.
[/quote]

I don't smoke weed. That doesn't inhibit my ability to have an opinion that weed can be consumed moderately. There was no reason to bring this to me except a rather sad attempt on your part to embarrass me. Yes, I have seen pornography and I'm willing to bet that you have as well.

Have you ever viewed pornography, KnightofChrist? A yes or no answer will do fine.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343068363' post='2458160']
Ok. So is alcohol. Most people use alcohol (more or less) responsibly and alcohol doesn't have a negative impact on their life. Or at least the positive impact outweighs the negative impact. But we all have the friend who because a huge, hot flooping mess mess every time they drink. And honestly those people piss me off and she seems like just that type of person. Sorry, the problem isn't porn or alcohol. The problem is (the hypothetical) you and your inability to keep your poo together. You have to go looking for porn. I think a lot of the porn industry is sleazy but it's not their fault if you cannot hold your poo together in real life if you seek out their product.

[i][b]75 million[/b]
[color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4]Average monthly unique visitors to adult [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.thepinkcross.org/page/help-porn-addiction"]websites[/url][color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4] between 2005 and 2008[/size][/font][/color][/i]
[url="http://theweek.com/article/index/204156/the-internet-porn-epidemic-by-the-numbers"]http://theweek.com/a...-by-the-numbers[/url]

That's huge. That's almost a third of the country. Somehow the vast majority of those people are watching porn and not destroying their relationships with their friends of the same sex. So porn is not the ultimate cause here. The ultimate cause is her. her personality type and her personal issues. Different people can handle different things.

I've posted my fair share of embarrassing personal stories. But I don't come on and announce that alcohol made me sloppily make out with some girl on the dance floor. As embarrassing as that was and as much as I'd like to pretend that I bore no fault and the evil alcohol companies made me act like a hot mess the truth is that it's my fault. Same for her here.


I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more open discussion about the actual negative aspects of pornography. One big issue with abstinence only education is that then kids get their actual sex ed from porn and have grossly distorted ideas about what romance and sex is actually like. There is a lot to pornography that is far from harmless. But at the same time I really dislike people who just take something like porn and attribute to it all of their personal problems.
[/quote]
You leave alcohol out of this, commie.

[4588686]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1343074369' post='2458187']
I agree with practically nothing that Hassan says. However that does not mean I can just say "the only reason you are condoning it is so that you don't feel guilty because you are OBVIOUSLY in mortal sin and just don't want to man up. "

That's exactly the kind of behavior that drives people away from the church. It is the kind of judgement that Christ says not to do. You cannot judge the state of a persons soul by his posts on the Internet. So stop being a coppery posser.
[/quote]

Well said. And I am not arguing that pornography is an inherently good thing. Pornography can severely distort the understanding that many 13, 14, 15 year old kids have about sex and relationships and it can inspire a lot of teens to engage in sexual activity that they really aren't ready for because they think that what they are seeing is the norm. Pornography can cause a lot of harm. Which is why, since teenage boys and girls are going to look at it, it needs to be contextualized with real, substantive education about sexuality and relationships.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Hasan

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
When did I say that she deserved anything? I don't think she did anything wrong. I don't care if she looks at porn. The only thing that I found annoying was her attempts to transfer blame for things that she did which she doesn't like onto pornography. Like her relationships with her friends.
[/quote]
Deserved was the wrong word.

Re: transferring blame -- I guess this is addressed in the other things you wrote. My assumption wasn't that she DID anything, so then I didn't see her placing the blame for her actions onto pornography. I see where she says porn affected her life experience and outlook and that obviously has an effect on how she conducts herself. I see where she said it had negative impacts in the bedroom, and where she mentioned that it affected her friendships. Again, our difference in opinion might be in the fact that it didn't even occur to you that someone would abandon a friendship over mere questioning of sexual orientation.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
Well, you're right. I shouldn't have assumed that. But it didn't occur to me that somebody would abandon a friend because they questioned their orientation. My bad.
[/quote]
Probably because you wouldn't -- or at least I don't assume you would based on your own posts. I don't know you or anything though, so maybe it's a bigger deal than you let on. Don't know. But for what it's worth, you don't strike me as the type to walk away simply because someone thinks they might be gay.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
Ok. I apologize. I should have specified that I was not talking about people who suffer from alcoholism. I was thinking of a college context where you have plenty of people who do not have an addiction to alcohol but choose to drink anyway, even though they always become a hot mes when they do drink, and then blame it on the alcohol.
[/quote]
Fair enough. And I agree: that behavior [i]is[/i] obnoxious.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
I assumed because she specifically mentioned a questioning of her sexual orientation. Maybe that was wrong. It would be helpful if she was more specific.
[/quote]
Fair enough.

[4588686]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1343075271' post='2458196']
You leave alcohol out of this, commie.
[/quote]

Don't you have a drum circle of non-aggression to attend?

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343075307' post='2458197']


Well said. And I am not arguing that pornography is an inherently good thing. Pornography can severely distort the understanding that many 13, 14, 15 year old kids have about sex and relationships and it can inspire a lot of teens to engage in sexual activity that they really aren't ready for because they think that what they are seeing is the norm. Pornography can cause a lot of harm. Which is why, since teenage boys and girls are going to look at it, it needs to be contextualized with real, substantive education about sexuality and relationships.
[/quote]

I think that a lot of bad sexual choices stem from people thinking that they should decide when they are ready for sex rather than whether or not sex is appropriate behavior. I may go out clubbing or something and decide I'm ready for sex. And that could be true. Doesn't mean it's appropriate for me to do so.

[Era Might]

The problem I usually have with Christian social criticism is it usually misses the point (not that this is unique to Christians, but Christians should know better). There are a few questions I would ask before looking at this issue.

Is pornography a new phenomenon in human society? No. Is licentiousness new? No. Is it something new for young people to lack control over their urges? No. Is sexual exploitation new? No.

So what's "new" about pornography? Seems to me that the only real "new" thing is the media itself, the virtual world of the Internet. And criticism of that is only tangentially related to pornography. The same criticism would touch on social media, forums, etc.

Is pornography bad in many ways? Yes. But I think Christians are also prone to be children of the age in turning "conditions" into "a condition." They want to justify their morality from a modern medical / psychological / social perspective. But they usually just become half-hearted modernists. They miss the point because they're just dressing up their morality in modern garb, rather than actually bringing any insight to problems.

Christians could have insightful things to say about something like pornography (or gay marriage, or abortion), but more often than not they just end up wanting to beat the world at its own game. You can wax poetic about how pornography is a social scourge, but to the world it's just a diversion, like Spongebob Squarepants or the Super Bowl. So long as you approach criticism of something like pornography in the world's terms, you may say some true things, but you're just going to be laughed at for being less insightful than the world itself is.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I didn't say a secular source, I said because the article was secular. That is it confined itself to the secular realm. I don't care if Catholics think that pornography is evil.[/quote]


The article is a source that is secular that began this conversion.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I wouldn't say that I approve of consuming it in moderation. But I don't think that it is wrong to do so. Depending on external sources. If the individuals participating are being coerced, for example, then I think it would be pretty bad. [/quote]


That is still an approval of its use, even if you don't want to admit its an approval.



[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I don't smoke weed. That doesn't inhibit my ability to have an opinion that weed can be consumed moderately. There was no reason to bring this to me except a rather sad attempt on your part to embarrass me. Yes, I have seen pornography and I'm willing to bet that you have as well. [/quote]


I don't smoke crack or shoot up herion. That doesn't inhibit my ability to reason to admit the truth that both are highly addictive and great harms to those that consume them even if used in moderation. My point was that most people who defend great evils, as you have here even if partly, often commit those evils themselves because they do not wish to admit their grave error.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
Have you ever viewed pornography, KnightofChrist? A yes or no answer will do fine.
[/quote]

Yes I have, regrettably, but I am not foolish enough to deny reason and reality by giving any kind of approval of viewing it as you have, regrettably.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1343076163' post='2458207']
The problem I usually have with Christian social criticism is it usually misses the point (not that this is unique to Christians, but Christians should know better). There are a few questions I would ask before looking at this issue.

Is pornography a new phenomenon in human society? No. Is licentiousness new? No. Is it something new for young people to lack control over their urges? No. Is sexual exploitation new? No.

So what's "new" about pornography? Seems to me that the only real "new" thing is the media itself, the virtual world of the Internet. And criticism of that is only tangentially related to pornography. The same criticism would touch on social media, forums, etc.

Is pornography bad in many ways? Yes. But I think Christians are also prone to be children of the age in turning "conditions" into "a condition." They want to justify their morality from a modern medical / psychological / social perspective. But they usually just become half-hearted modernists. They miss the point because they're just dressing up their morality in modern garb, rather than actually bringing any insight to problems.

Christians could have insightful things to say about something like pornography (or gay marriage, or abortion), but more often than not they just end up wanting to beat the world at its own game. You can wax poetic about how pornography is a social scourge, but to the world it's just a diversion, like Spongebob Squarepants or the Super Bowl. So long as you approach criticism of something like pornography in the world's terms, you may say some true things, but you're just going to be laughed at for being less insightful than the world itself is.
[/quote]
I'd much rather see what you have to say about the subject than your criticism of how other people think.

[MissyP89]

What you do after watching porn in your fault. The way you treat people in and outside of the bedroom is completely your choice.

But the things it does to your [i]head [/i]-- like ruin your idea of dignity, self-giving, and gentleness -- is greatly influenced by pr0nz. And the more you watch, the more it erodes your ability to see clearly re: sexuality.

[Winchester]

commence fapper breast-beating

[Jaime]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1343076824' post='2458215']
commence fapper breast-beating
[/quote]

I'm no expert but I think you're doing it wrong

[Winchester]

[quote name='jaime' timestamp='1343077086' post='2458219']
I'm no expert but I think you're doing it wrong
[/quote]
DON'T YOU JUDGE ME!

[franciscanheart]

[4588686]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1343077768' post='2458230']

[/quote]


Prude.

[Lil Red]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1343076824' post='2458215']
commence fapper breast-beating
[/quote]

i see what you did there.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343077982' post='2458233']
Prude.
[/quote]
Considering what I've been called in the past, I'm considering this a compliment.

Also, please pass on word to Boozer and Red. Please AND thank you.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Lil Red' timestamp='1343078142' post='2458235']
i see what you did there.
[/quote]
voyeur

[Brother Adam]

warning: some profane language. I saw this on my FB feed today, about a porn actress who announces that she is quitting the business. It's a good reminder of the brokenness these men and women face. Of course Catholics are going to make a natural law/religious argument. Our disgust with pornography, as well as other sins against chastity is wrought out of a benevolent concern for the other. People are meant to be loved, not used.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XMXvlTVq5Y

http://www.facebook.com/PornHarms
http://www.e5men.org/
http://www.pornnomore.com/
www.theporneffect.com/

and

http://artofmanliness.com/2009/05/11/the-problem-with-porn/