What I Wish I Would Have Known Before Watching P0rn

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='xTrishaxLynnx' timestamp='1343069588' post='2458169']
I like the fact that she is now trying to give others what she feels she was lacking in the decision making process when she decided to watch pornography.

That said, I think it's odd that she's coming at it from the very victim mentality she was warning about.

"I wish someone had talked about how women watch it too, so I wouldn't have had to spend years living under the shame that comes with being "the only one" and thinking there was something wrong with me."

There is so much wrong with this. She just finished telling us that there WAS something wrong with her, and that she wishes she'd never watched the porn... how big of a mistake it was... etc, etc. Now she's trying to say she wishes someone had made her feel normal in having watched porn. Pornography is not normal nor natural (I know most of you know this) and the shame she felt in watching it should have been her warning to quit. If she wanted to make a point about her having needed someone to talk to, that's fine, but this statement did not make that point very well.
[/quote]
Perhaps she didn't word what she said well enough to avoid any confusion, but then I've never met a writer who could. I knew what she meant and I would venture to say most did. I don't think she intended to condone the consumption, but to take away the crushing shame that accompanied its consumption. There's a difference between productive guilt and crippling shame.

[KnightofChrist]

[img]http://s11.postimage.org/drlskctn7/fighter_facts_infographic.jpg[/img]

Source: http://www.fightthenewdrug.org/Get-The-Facts/


[b]Viewing pornography releases the same chemicals into your brain that [color=#ff0000]heroin[/color] or [color=#ff0000]cocaine[/color] does.[/b]

1. Fattore, L., Melis, M., Fadda, P., Pistis, M., & Fratta, W. (2010). The endocannabinoid system and nondrug rewarding behaviours. Experimental Neurology, 224(1), 23-36. doi: 10.1016/j.expneurol.2010.03.020
2. Comings, D. E., & Blum, K. (2000). Reward deficiency syndrome: Genetic aspects of behavioral disorders. Progress in Brain Research, 126, 325-341
3. Frascella, J., Potenza, M. N., Brown, L. L., & Childress, A. R. (2010). Shared brain vulnerabilities open the way for nonsubstance addictions: carving addiction at a new joint?. Annals Of The New York Academy Of Sciences, 1187, 294-315
4. Goodman, A. (2008). Neurobiology of addiction: An integrative review. Biochemical Pharmacology, 75(1), 266-322. doi: 10.1016/j.bcp.2007.07.030
5. Esch, T., & Stefano, G. B. (2004). The neurobiology of pleasure, reward processes, addiction and their health implications. Neuroendocrinology Letters, 4(25), 235-251.
6. Kauer, J. A., & Malenka, R. C. (2007). Synaptic plasticity and addiction. Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 8(11), 844-858. doi: 10.1038/nrn2234
7. Naqvi, N. H., & Bechara, A. (2010). The insula and drug addiction: an interoceptive view of pleasure, urges, and decision-making. Brain Structure and Function, 214(5), 435-450. doi: 10.1007/s00429-010-0268-7
8. Hyde, R.F., Christensen, B., (2010). The Brain science behind pornography addiction. The White Paper Series, Retrieved December 2010 from candeocan.com 9. Kastleman, M.B. (2007). The drug of the new millennium: The brain science behind internet pornography use. Provo, UT: PowerThink Publishing

[sixpence]

1. There is nothing essentially dehumanizing about moderate alcohol consumption.

2. I don't think she wanted to be told porn itself was normal, she wanted to be told there were others she could talk to about the problem,

Edited July 23, 2012 by sixpence

[4588686]

[quote name='franciscanheart' timestamp='1343072675' post='2458175']
I think it's disgusting that you would assume to know what she did and what she deserves. Think what you want about her (even knowing nothing of her besides what you read here), but don't assume to know what she deserves. She is hurting; her own fault or not, it's a shiitake mushroom thing to assume she deserved what she got. It's not Christ-like and it's not becoming of anyone -- especially a man. [/QUOTE]

When did I say that she deserved anything? I don't think she did anything wrong. I don't care if she looks at porn. The only thing that I found annoying was her attempts to transfer blame for things that she did which she doesn't like onto pornography. Pornography didn't cost her her relationships with those friends. That was the fault of the individuals involved.


[QUOTE]In my opinion, your mistake here is that you're assuming her friends abandoned their relationship because she made some kind of advance or other mistake. Why do you assume that because she says she [b]questioned[/b] her sexual orientation that she made an advance or in some way negatively impacted her relationships? There are people who will abandon lifelong friendships because someone does question their orientation. That's all it takes; an unease, a doubt, a question and people bolt. It happens all the time. [/QUOTE]

Well, you're right. I shouldn't have assumed that. But it didn't occur to me that somebody would abandon a friend because they questioned their orientation. My bad.

[QUOTE]Do I deny that there are situations where a friend realizes they are not straight and make an advance or profess some kind of passionate love? No. I know of several who have experienced this. I also know it's not the typical situation.

There are also men in this world who believe they can hit on gay women and convert them. Doesn't make them the norm.


A couple of things.

1. If for no other reason, I would steer clear of the alcohol business seeing as we have had plenty of discussions about alcoholism here. You can believe that all people who struggle with alcohol are just flooped up poo craniums who deserve what they get, but you won't get very far here with that kind of croutons. [/QUOTE]

Ok. I apologize. I should have specified that I was not talking about people who suffer from alcoholism. I was thinking of a college context where you have plenty of people who do not have an addiction to alcohol but choose to drink anyway, even though they always become a hot mes when they do drink, and then blame it on the alcohol. I have a family member who suffers from alcoholism and I really would never intentionally imply or say that people were suffer with alcoholism are weak or have themselves to blame. That holds true for any genuine addiction. Including a genuine addiction to pornography.

[QUOTE] 2. (re: bolded section above) Why do you assume only her relationships with people are the same sex were affected by her actions? She makes no distinction, but you do. A bit assumptive, don't you think?
[/quote]

I assumed because she specifically mentioned a questioning of her sexual orientation. Maybe that was wrong. It would be helpful if she was more specific.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Hasan

[missionseeker]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343071808' post='2458174']


Let us be real for a moment shall we? It is more likely you would have jump in even if it wasn't a secular source. Because you approve of consuming porn in so-called moderation. It is also likely you approve because you consume it, rather than manning up and admit this error which degrades you and anyone else involved with its production and consumption.
[/quote]

I agree with practically nothing that Hassan says. However that does not mean I can just say "the only reason you are condoning it is so that you don't feel guilty because you are OBVIOUSLY in mortal sin and just don't want to man up. "

That's exactly the kind of behavior that drives people away from the church. It is the kind of judgement that Christ says not to do. You cannot judge the state of a persons soul by his posts on the Internet. So stop being a coppery posser.

Edited July 23, 2012 by missionseeker

[PhuturePriest]

I certainly wish I had known these things. It's kind of a double-edged sword for men and women. For women, you're not supposed to talk about it. For men, if you don't talk about it and if you don't watch it, you are seen as a complete weirdo and you are shunned by your peers. It is nice to know I can now think logically again, though. Matthew Fradd has some great stuff on pornography:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9RzJGuUdOE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-8ZdQAIj9U&feature=relmfu

[4588686]

[quote name='KnightofChrist' timestamp='1343071808' post='2458174']
Let us be real for a moment shall we? It is more likely you would have jump in even if it wasn't a secular source.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say a secular source, I said because the article was secular. That is it confined itself to the secular realm. I don't care if Catholics think that pornography is evil.

[QUOTE] Because you approve of consuming porn in so-called moderation. [/QUOTE]

I wouldn't say that I approve of consuming it in moderation. But I don't think that it is wrong to do so. Depending on external sources. If the individuals participating are being coerced, for example, then I think it would be pretty bad.

[QUOTE]It is also likely you approve because you consume it, rather than manning up and admit this error which degrades you and anyone else involved with its production and consumption.
[/quote]

I don't smoke weed. That doesn't inhibit my ability to have an opinion that weed can be consumed moderately. There was no reason to bring this to me except a rather sad attempt on your part to embarrass me. Yes, I have seen pornography and I'm willing to bet that you have as well.

Have you ever viewed pornography, KnightofChrist? A yes or no answer will do fine.

[Winchester]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343068363' post='2458160']
Ok. So is alcohol. Most people use alcohol (more or less) responsibly and alcohol doesn't have a negative impact on their life. Or at least the positive impact outweighs the negative impact. But we all have the friend who because a huge, hot flooping mess mess every time they drink. And honestly those people piss me off and she seems like just that type of person. Sorry, the problem isn't porn or alcohol. The problem is (the hypothetical) you and your inability to keep your poo together. You have to go looking for porn. I think a lot of the porn industry is sleazy but it's not their fault if you cannot hold your poo together in real life if you seek out their product.

[i][b]75 million[/b]
[color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4]Average monthly unique visitors to adult [/size][/font][/color][url="http://www.thepinkcross.org/page/help-porn-addiction"]websites[/url][color=#000000][font=Georgia, 'Times New Roman', Times, serif][size=4] between 2005 and 2008[/size][/font][/color][/i]
[url="http://theweek.com/article/index/204156/the-internet-porn-epidemic-by-the-numbers"]http://theweek.com/a...-by-the-numbers[/url]

That's huge. That's almost a third of the country. Somehow the vast majority of those people are watching porn and not destroying their relationships with their friends of the same sex. So porn is not the ultimate cause here. The ultimate cause is her. her personality type and her personal issues. Different people can handle different things.

I've posted my fair share of embarrassing personal stories. But I don't come on and announce that alcohol made me sloppily make out with some girl on the dance floor. As embarrassing as that was and as much as I'd like to pretend that I bore no fault and the evil alcohol companies made me act like a hot mess the truth is that it's my fault. Same for her here.


I'm not saying that there shouldn't be more open discussion about the actual negative aspects of pornography. One big issue with abstinence only education is that then kids get their actual sex ed from porn and have grossly distorted ideas about what romance and sex is actually like. There is a lot to pornography that is far from harmless. But at the same time I really dislike people who just take something like porn and attribute to it all of their personal problems.
[/quote]
You leave alcohol out of this, commie.

[4588686]

[quote name='missionseeker' timestamp='1343074369' post='2458187']
I agree with practically nothing that Hassan says. However that does not mean I can just say "the only reason you are condoning it is so that you don't feel guilty because you are OBVIOUSLY in mortal sin and just don't want to man up. "

That's exactly the kind of behavior that drives people away from the church. It is the kind of judgement that Christ says not to do. You cannot judge the state of a persons soul by his posts on the Internet. So stop being a coppery posser.
[/quote]

Well said. And I am not arguing that pornography is an inherently good thing. Pornography can severely distort the understanding that many 13, 14, 15 year old kids have about sex and relationships and it can inspire a lot of teens to engage in sexual activity that they really aren't ready for because they think that what they are seeing is the norm. Pornography can cause a lot of harm. Which is why, since teenage boys and girls are going to look at it, it needs to be contextualized with real, substantive education about sexuality and relationships.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Hasan

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
When did I say that she deserved anything? I don't think she did anything wrong. I don't care if she looks at porn. The only thing that I found annoying was her attempts to transfer blame for things that she did which she doesn't like onto pornography. Like her relationships with her friends.
[/quote]
Deserved was the wrong word.

Re: transferring blame -- I guess this is addressed in the other things you wrote. My assumption wasn't that she DID anything, so then I didn't see her placing the blame for her actions onto pornography. I see where she says porn affected her life experience and outlook and that obviously has an effect on how she conducts herself. I see where she said it had negative impacts in the bedroom, and where she mentioned that it affected her friendships. Again, our difference in opinion might be in the fact that it didn't even occur to you that someone would abandon a friendship over mere questioning of sexual orientation.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
Well, you're right. I shouldn't have assumed that. But it didn't occur to me that somebody would abandon a friend because they questioned their orientation. My bad.
[/quote]
Probably because you wouldn't -- or at least I don't assume you would based on your own posts. I don't know you or anything though, so maybe it's a bigger deal than you let on. Don't know. But for what it's worth, you don't strike me as the type to walk away simply because someone thinks they might be gay.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
Ok. I apologize. I should have specified that I was not talking about people who suffer from alcoholism. I was thinking of a college context where you have plenty of people who do not have an addiction to alcohol but choose to drink anyway, even though they always become a hot mes when they do drink, and then blame it on the alcohol.
[/quote]
Fair enough. And I agree: that behavior [i]is[/i] obnoxious.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343073981' post='2458185']
I assumed because she specifically mentioned a questioning of her sexual orientation. Maybe that was wrong. It would be helpful if she was more specific.
[/quote]
Fair enough.

[4588686]

[quote name='Winchester' timestamp='1343075271' post='2458196']
You leave alcohol out of this, commie.
[/quote]

Don't you have a drum circle of non-aggression to attend?

[missionseeker]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343075307' post='2458197']


Well said. And I am not arguing that pornography is an inherently good thing. Pornography can severely distort the understanding that many 13, 14, 15 year old kids have about sex and relationships and it can inspire a lot of teens to engage in sexual activity that they really aren't ready for because they think that what they are seeing is the norm. Pornography can cause a lot of harm. Which is why, since teenage boys and girls are going to look at it, it needs to be contextualized with real, substantive education about sexuality and relationships.
[/quote]

I think that a lot of bad sexual choices stem from people thinking that they should decide when they are ready for sex rather than whether or not sex is appropriate behavior. I may go out clubbing or something and decide I'm ready for sex. And that could be true. Doesn't mean it's appropriate for me to do so.

[Era Might]

The problem I usually have with Christian social criticism is it usually misses the point (not that this is unique to Christians, but Christians should know better). There are a few questions I would ask before looking at this issue.

Is pornography a new phenomenon in human society? No. Is licentiousness new? No. Is it something new for young people to lack control over their urges? No. Is sexual exploitation new? No.

So what's "new" about pornography? Seems to me that the only real "new" thing is the media itself, the virtual world of the Internet. And criticism of that is only tangentially related to pornography. The same criticism would touch on social media, forums, etc.

Is pornography bad in many ways? Yes. But I think Christians are also prone to be children of the age in turning "conditions" into "a condition." They want to justify their morality from a modern medical / psychological / social perspective. But they usually just become half-hearted modernists. They miss the point because they're just dressing up their morality in modern garb, rather than actually bringing any insight to problems.

Christians could have insightful things to say about something like pornography (or gay marriage, or abortion), but more often than not they just end up wanting to beat the world at its own game. You can wax poetic about how pornography is a social scourge, but to the world it's just a diversion, like Spongebob Squarepants or the Super Bowl. So long as you approach criticism of something like pornography in the world's terms, you may say some true things, but you're just going to be laughed at for being less insightful than the world itself is.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Era Might

[KnightofChrist]

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I didn't say a secular source, I said because the article was secular. That is it confined itself to the secular realm. I don't care if Catholics think that pornography is evil.[/quote]


The article is a source that is secular that began this conversion.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I wouldn't say that I approve of consuming it in moderation. But I don't think that it is wrong to do so. Depending on external sources. If the individuals participating are being coerced, for example, then I think it would be pretty bad. [/quote]


That is still an approval of its use, even if you don't want to admit its an approval.



[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
I don't smoke weed. That doesn't inhibit my ability to have an opinion that weed can be consumed moderately. There was no reason to bring this to me except a rather sad attempt on your part to embarrass me. Yes, I have seen pornography and I'm willing to bet that you have as well. [/quote]


I don't smoke crack or shoot up herion. That doesn't inhibit my ability to reason to admit the truth that both are highly addictive and great harms to those that consume them even if used in moderation. My point was that most people who defend great evils, as you have here even if partly, often commit those evils themselves because they do not wish to admit their grave error.

[quote name='Hasan' timestamp='1343074506' post='2458190']
Have you ever viewed pornography, KnightofChrist? A yes or no answer will do fine.
[/quote]

Yes I have, regrettably, but I am not foolish enough to deny reason and reality by giving any kind of approval of viewing it as you have, regrettably.

[franciscanheart]

[quote name='Era Might' timestamp='1343076163' post='2458207']
The problem I usually have with Christian social criticism is it usually misses the point (not that this is unique to Christians, but Christians should know better). There are a few questions I would ask before looking at this issue.

Is pornography a new phenomenon in human society? No. Is licentiousness new? No. Is it something new for young people to lack control over their urges? No. Is sexual exploitation new? No.

So what's "new" about pornography? Seems to me that the only real "new" thing is the media itself, the virtual world of the Internet. And criticism of that is only tangentially related to pornography. The same criticism would touch on social media, forums, etc.

Is pornography bad in many ways? Yes. But I think Christians are also prone to be children of the age in turning "conditions" into "a condition." They want to justify their morality from a modern medical / psychological / social perspective. But they usually just become half-hearted modernists. They miss the point because they're just dressing up their morality in modern garb, rather than actually bringing any insight to problems.

Christians could have insightful things to say about something like pornography (or gay marriage, or abortion), but more often than not they just end up wanting to beat the world at its own game. You can wax poetic about how pornography is a social scourge, but to the world it's just a diversion, like Spongebob Squarepants or the Super Bowl. So long as you approach criticism of something like pornography in the world's terms, you may say some true things, but you're just going to be laughed at for being less insightful than the world itself is.
[/quote]
I'd much rather see what you have to say about the subject than your criticism of how other people think.