No Tax Payment, No Blessing!

[Anomaly]

The question was raised about Catholic Bishops in Germany not allowing Sacraments (Baptism, Wedding, etc.) being given to those who don't pay Religion Tax on thier income to their Government. It seems the money does get forwarded to the various Religions, protestant, catholic, jewish...
But payment is mandatory if you identify yourself as a member. Catholic Bishops are denying Sacraments to those who attempt to opt out of mandatory payement.
Link to article: [url="http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/55255142/75629307/No_tax_no_blessing_German_church_insists_on_levy"]http://www.rr.com/news/topic/article/rr/55255142/75629307/No_tax_no_blessing_German_church_insists_on_levy[/url]

Some excerpts for those who aren't concerned about complete context:
BERLIN (AP) — The road to heaven is paved with more than good intentions for Germany's 24 million Catholics. If they don't pay their religious taxes, they will be denied sacraments, including weddings, baptisms and funerals.
A decree issued last week by the country's bishops cast a spotlight on the longstanding practice in Germany and a handful of other European countries in which governments tax registered believers and then hand over the money to the religious institutions.
In Germany, the surcharge for Catholics, Protestants and Jews is a surcharge of up to nine percent on their income tax bills — or about ¬56 ($72) a month for a single person earning a pre-tax monthly salary of about ¬3,500 ($4,500).
...
The Catholic Church in Germany receives about ¬5 billion ($6.5 billion) annually from the surcharge. For Protestants, the total is just above ¬4 billion ($5.2 billion).

...
Those are the people that Germany's Catholic bishops had in mind when they decreed on Sept. 20 that stopping the payment of religious taxes was "a serious lapse" and those who did so would then be excluded from a range of church activities.
"This decree makes clear that one cannot partly leave the Church," the bishops said in a statement. "It is not possible to separate the spiritual community of the Church from the institutional Church."
Wavering Catholics will now be sent letters reminding them of the consequences of avoiding the church tax, including losing access to all sacraments.
"Maybe you haven't considered the consequences of your decision and would like to reverse this step," a draft of the letter states.

[KnightofChrist]

I can't recall any other time when the 'institutional Church' supported a church tax. How would the German bishops react if it was they who had to pay a church tax?

[ACS67]

I find this appalling. Why would the Catholic Church agree to this?

[Anomaly]

[size=4]WARSAW, Poland (CNS) -- The German bishops' conference defended a controversial decree that said Catholics who stop paying a church membership tax cannot receive sacraments.

[b]"There must be consequences for people who distance themselves from the church by a public act," [/b]said Archbishop Robert Zollitsch of Freiburg, conference president, in defending the Sept. 20 decree.

"Clearly, someone withdrawing from the church can no longer take advantage of the system like someone who remains a member," he said at a Sept. 24 news conference as the bishops began a four-day meeting in Fulda. "We are grateful Rome has given completely clear approval to our stance."

The archbishop said each departure was "painful for the church," adding that bishops feared many Catholics were unaware of the consequences and would be "open to other solutions."

"The Catholic church is committed to seeking out every lost person," said Archbishop Zollitsch, whose remarks were reported by Germany's Die Welt daily.

[b]"At issue, however, is the credibility of the church's sacramental nature. One cannot be half a member or only partly a member. Either one belongs and commits, or one renounces this," Archbishop Zollitsch said.[/b]

....

Conscious dissociation from the church by public act is a grave offense against the church community," the decree said.

"Whoever declares their withdrawal for whatever reason before the responsible civil authority always violates their duty to preserve a link with the church, as well as their duty to make a financial contribution so the church can fulfill its tasks."

[b]The document added that departing Catholics [u]could no longer receive [/u]the sacraments[/b] of [color=#b22222][b]penance[/b][/color], [color=#a52a2a][b]holy Communion[/b][/color], [b][color=#a52a2a]confirmation[/color][/b] or [b][color=#a52a2a]anointing of the sick[/color][/b], [u][color=#ff8c00][b][i]other than when facing death[/i][/b][/color][/u], or exercise any church function, including belonging to parish councils or acting as godparents.

Marriages would granted only by a bishop's consent [color=#a52a2a][b]and unrepentant Catholics would be denied church funerals[/b][/color], the decree said.

A press release Sept. 20 said [u][color=#ff0000][b]the decree had been approved in August by the Vatican's Congregation for Bishops[/b][/color][/u]. It added that parish priests would be asked to write to departing Catholics, inviting them to meet and explain their decision and have the consequences explained.[/size]

Edited September 28, 2012 by Anomaly

[beatitude]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348853324' post='2487627']
[size=4]A press release Sept. 20 said [u][color=#ff0000][b]the decree had been approved in August by the Vatican's Congregation for Bishops[/b][/color][/u]. It added that parish priests would be asked to write to departing Catholics, inviting them to meet and explain their decision and have the consequences explained.[/size]
[/quote]

I think this would be the moment to take a leaf out of St Catherine of Siena's book, and for parishioners to meet and explain (kindly) to the bishops the consequences of being mercenary.

[PhuturePriest]

Easy, children of the corn, easy. Those who don't pay the tax don't pay it because they left the Church officially and call themselves Protestant so they don't have to pay it (This is a government tax, not a Church tax). My question is why on earth [i]would[/i] the Bishops give the holy Eucharist to those who renounced their faith on paper so they didn't have to pay a tax?

[dUSt]

I think you are leaving out an important point. In order to opt out of the government imposed tax, the German citizen must make an "official declaration that one is leaving the faith".

That is the issue. Not the fact that they don't want to pay taxes.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1348859288' post='2487657']
Easy, children of the corn, easy. Those who don't pay the tax don't pay it because they left the Church officially and call themselves Protestant so they don't have to pay it (This is a government tax, not a Church tax). My question is why on earth [i]would[/i] the Bishops give the holy Eucharist to those who renounced their faith on paper so they didn't have to pay a tax?
[/quote]

Dude, at least read the entire posts and possibly skim the linked article.

Protestants would have to pay as well. Prot clergy aren't taking such a hard-line stance at this time.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348859480' post='2487659']
I think you are leaving out an important point. In order to opt out of the government imposed tax, the German citizen must make an "official declaration that one is leaving the faith".

That is the issue. Not the fact that they don't want to pay taxes.
[/quote]

Of course. Making an official declaration that one is leaving the Faith tells you where a persons' priorities lie, and it's not God-minded, but economically-minded. I don't agree with the tax (Granted, I don't know what the tax [i]is[/i]), but declaring your departure from the Faith over it is reason enough to get the Church behind the Bishops in telling them they can't receive the Eucharist.

[dUSt]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1348859288' post='2487657']
...and call themselves Protestant so they don't have to pay it ...
[/quote]
Actually, Protestants and Jews are taxed in Germany too. So, they just have to denounce their faith, not become Protestant.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348859480' post='2487659']
I think you are leaving out an important point. In order to opt out of the government imposed tax, the German citizen must make an "official declaration that one is leaving the faith".

That is the issue. Not the fact that they don't want to pay taxes.
[/quote]It seems it's not as much a tax that goes to the Government, it seems to be a matter of Mandatory Titheing, paid through the Government Taxing Authority. It's unclear to me how much (if any) the Government keeps as a cost for collecting.

[dUSt]

Imagine if the athiests in the United States started complaining about their taxes going towards faith-based charitable organizations, so a law is passed allowing athiests to pay a lower percentage of taxes than people of faith (this isn't so far-fetched people).

In order to qualify for the tax break, you must make an official declaration that you are an athiest.

Should the U.S. bishops then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself an athiest.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348859950' post='2487664']
It seems it's not as much a tax that goes to the Government, it seems to be a matter of Mandatory Titheing, paid through the Government Taxing Authority. It's unclear to me how much (if any) the Government keeps as a cost for collecting.
[/quote]

It would be mandatory tithing if it was imposed by the Church. It is not. It is an outdated German law, imposed by the German government. And yes, they get a big chunk of what they collect.

[Anomaly]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348860176' post='2487665']
Imagine if the athiests in the United States started complaining about their taxes going towards faith-based charitable organizations, so a law is passed allowing athiests to pay a lower percentage of taxes than people of faith (this isn't so far-fetched people).

In order to qualify for the tax break, you must make an official declaration that you are an athiest.

Should the U.S. bishops then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself an athiest.
[/quote]A false and misleading analogy.

The question is, should Religions be able to:
A- require MANDATORY financial contributions,
B- have collection administered through the Government,
C- at the pain of losing membership to the Religion?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348860334' post='2487667']

It would be mandatory tithing if it was imposed by the Church. It is not. It is an outdated German law, imposed by the German government. And yes, they get a big chunk of what they collect.
[/quote]It is effectively being imposed by the Church. The Church supports it and is not aiding or providing efforts to circumvent it or make noise to eliminate it.

Effectively, the German Catholic Bishops are saying you MUST PAY them money or you will be excluded from receiving the Sacraments. The Church Tax laws in Germany, Sweden, Norway, and other countries are allowing this. The Government does the work and collects a percentage of the revenues.

[dUSt]

[quote name='Anomaly' timestamp='1348860554' post='2487668']
A false and misleading analogy.

The question is, should Religions be able to:
A- require MANDATORY financial contributions,
B- have collection administered through the Government,
C- at the pain of losing membership to the Religion?
[/quote]

So your premise is that the Church is forcing the Government to collect the taxes.
Please show me your basis for this.

[dUSt]

Also, you said this is a false analogy:

[indent=1][i]In order to [color=#ff8c00]qualify for the tax break[/color], you must make an official declaration that you are an [color=#ff0000]athiest[/color]. Should the [color=#008000]U.S. bishops[/color] then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself an [color=#ff0000]athiest[/color].[/i][/indent]

But changing a few words describes exactly what is happening in Germany:

[indent=1][i]In order to [color=#ff8c00]opt out of the tax[/color], you must make an official declaration that you are [color=#ff0000]not Catholic[/color]. Should the [color=#008000]German bishops[/color] then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself [color=#ff0000]not Catholic[/color].[/i][/indent]

Color coded for your convenience. How is the analogy false?

[Anomaly]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348860907' post='2487671']
So your premise is that the Church is forcing the Government to collect the taxes.
Please show me your basis for this.
[/quote]
[b]From a German Social site explaining life in Germany.[/b]

[b]Kirchensteuer - Church tax[/b]

If you belong to one of the main religions and you put this down when you register as resident at your arrival in Germany you will have to pay church tax. Take 8% of your income tax due in a year, and it is ON TOP. Only consolation is that you can deduct it from your gross income in your income tax statement (Einkommensteuer). You can formally deregister from your religious organisation and this will also terminate your church tax exposure. See: [url="http://www.kirchenaustritt.de/"]kirchenaustritt.de[/url]

From Wiki:
About 70% of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_(building)"]church[/url] revenues come from [i]church tax[/i]. This is about [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro"]€[/url]9.2 billion (in 2010).
Article 137 of the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weimar_Constitution"]Weimar Constitution[/url] of 1919 and article 140 of the German [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Law_for_the_Federal_Republic_of_Germany"]Basic Law[/url] of 1949 are the legal basis for this practice.
In Germany, on the basis of tax regulations passed by the communities and within the limits set by state laws, communities may either[list]
[*]require the taxation authorities of the state to collect the fees from the members on the basis of income tax assessment (then, the authorities withhold a collection fee), or
[*]choose to collect the church tax themselves.
[/list]
In the first case, membership in the community is entered onto a tax document ([i]Lohnsteuerkarte[/i]) which employees must surrender to their employers for the purpose of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withholding"]withholding[/url] tax on paid income. If membership in a tax-collecting religious community is entered on the document, the employer must withhold church tax prepayments from the income of the employee in addition to other tax prepayments. In connection with the final annual income tax assessment, the state revenue authorities also finally assess the church tax owed. In the case of self-employed persons or of unemployed taxpayers, state revenue authorities collect prepayments on the church tax together with prepayments on the income tax.
If, however, religious communities choose to collect church tax themselves, they may demand that the tax authorities reveal taxation data of their members to calculate the contributions and prepayments owed. In particular, some smaller communities (e.g. the Jewish Community of [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin"]Berlin[/url]) choose to collect taxes themselves to save collection fees the government would charge otherwise.
Collection of church tax may be used to cover any church-related expenses such as founding institutions and foundations or paying ministers.
The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public law may formally declare their wish to leave the community to state (not religious) authorities. With such a declaration, the obligation to pay church taxes ends. Some communities refuse to administer marriages and burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it.


[b]From a Travel site describing the workings of religions around Europe. Not an anti-religion site. [url="http://www.sacred-destinations.com/germany/germany-religion.htm"]http://www.sacred-destinations.com/germany/germany-religion.htm[/url][/b]

In the Federal Republic, freedom of religion is guaranteed by Article 4 of the Basic Law, and the churches enjoy a special legal status as corporate bodies. In theory, there is constitutional separation of church and state, but church financing complicates this separation. To support churches and their work, most Germans in the old [i]Länder[/i] pay a voluntary church tax, amounting to an 8 or 9 percent surcharge on income tax paid. Living in a society known for consensus and conformity, few West Germans formally withdrew from the established churches before the 1980s and hence continued to pay the tax.

[dUSt]

That article is not saying anything I haven't said. The person must declare that they are no longer Catholic to opt out of the tax.

[i][color=#282828][font='Open Sans', sans-serif]"You can formally deregister from your religious organisation and this will also terminate your church tax exposure."[/font][/color][/i]

[font="Open Sans, sans-serif"][color="#282828"]If anything, this article reinforces what I was saying about the government requiring the tax, and not the Church.[/color][/font]

[Anomaly]

[quote name='dUSt' timestamp='1348861284' post='2487673']
Also, you said this is a false analogy:

[i]In order to [color=#ff8c00]qualify for the tax break[/color], you must make an official declaration that you are an [color=#ff0000]athiest[/color]. Should the [color=#008000]U.S. bishops[/color] then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself an [color=#ff0000]athiest[/color].[/i]

But changing a few words describes exactly what is happening in Germany:

[i]In order to [color=#ff8c00]opt out of the tax[/color], you must make an official declaration that you are [color=#ff0000]not Catholic[/color]. Should the [color=#008000]German bishops[/color] then say, ok, that's cool. Come receive communion while you are publicly declaring yourself [color=#ff0000]not Catholic[/color].[/i]

Color coded for your convenience. How is the analogy false?
[/quote]It's not about just a 'tax break'. It's the Relgion requireing payment from it's members.

Maybe I'm spoiled with the American perspective that contributions to one's religions is strictly a matter of [u]private and personal conscience[/u].

Could not the German Catholic Church choose to opt out of receiving money via Government Authorized Taxes and tell their congregation to listen to the conscience

[b]1744[/b] Freedom is the power to act or not to act, and so to perform deliberate acts of one's own. Freedom attains perfection in its acts when directed toward God, the sovereign Good.
[url=""][b]1745[/b] Freedom characterizes properly human acts. It makes the human being responsible for acts of which he is the voluntary agent. His deliberate acts properly belong to him.
[/url][b]1746[/b] The imputability or responsibility for an action can be diminished or nullified by ignorance, duress, fear, and other psychological or social factors.
[url=""][b]1747[/b] The right to the exercise of freedom, especially in religious and moral matters, is an inalienable requirement of the dignity of man. But the exercise of freedom does not entail the putative right to say or do anything.
[b]2408[/b] The seventh commandment forbids [i]theft[/i], that is, usurping another's property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one's disposal and use the property of others.[sup][size="2"]191[/size][/sup]
[/url][b]<a href="javascript:openWindow('cr/2409.htm');">2409[/b] Even if it does not contradict the provisions of civil law, any form of unjustly taking and keeping the property of others is against the seventh commandment: thus, deliberate retention of goods lent or of objects lost; business fraud; paying unjust wages; forcing up prices by taking advantage of the ignorance or hardship of another.[sup][size="2"]192[/size][/sup]


It seems that true act of Charity must be a freely voluntary response.