Why Did Jesus Have To Die?

[BarbTherese]

....................true............ : ....................

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='Groo the Wanderer' timestamp='1350761663' post='2495387']
y'all are leaving out the bacon factor and have barely mentioned the influence of llamas
[/quote]
[img]http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2012/1/31/3971a145-423c-413e-91e9-8969dcdaa40e.jpg[/img]

Try some Camels. A pack a day keeps the Llama nightmares away!

[img]http://freeelectroniccigarettes.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Camel-cigarettes.jpg[/img]

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1350598520' post='2494532']
A psychiatrist once told me I was the worst case of anxiety and phobia he had ever come across and he was an older experienced psychiatrist. I used to think I was the odd one at PM but then discovered that many people on PM are mentally interesting. It would be nice to have a support sub phorum for our ailments but PM seems to be having enough overload issues as is.


Not me! I'm a painstaking two finger typist that takes hrs to write even short posts. Attention deficit too I think that's why I like forums rather than books.



I was using it tongue in cheek so to speak.


Definitely! There are a few scriptures where Jesus seems to be teasing people! Jesus had a sense of humour? Of course God made us in his image including our sense of humour. And as human Jesus showed us humanity by becoming impatient with those who did not listen (wink wink)



Apart from my own children I have never done anything truly awsome like you. And even my children were mostly my wife's blessing.
And you're very kind with your remarks to me, but no! I'm a long way from being a saint. That's why I put my location as purgatory because my life has been a long struggle trying to turn from very sinful beginnings into something acceptable to God. I hang on the words "The forgiveness of sins." and "He that believe in me shall never die but have eternal life."
[/quote]

Am taking a few minutes out, Mark. If I repeat myself - sorry.

I love that term "mentally interesting". I am certainly phobic about my Bipolar episodes or threats of rather. Anxiety is absolutely cruel in my book.
I think you are correct that PM is challenged enough without another forum that would probably be a very active one. I do tend to think though that people who are mentally interesting can struggle to find a place in the scheme of things in The Church. Not all, but quite a few. We are more inclined to be regarded as objects for charity etc. than gifted in our own right with things to offer and contribute.
I have seen two finger typists that have amazed me with their speed. I am afraid that I am totally lacking on the patience front - totally!
I knew a couple of people with ADD when I was studying. Some of the problems when untreated can sound to me like some features in a Bipolar episode - sometimes.

Pwn. I must try to remember that. Mark, you are marked by chivalry.
I am the best of listeners when it's not going in one ear and out the other immediately!
My concept is that when God asks, He also provides all that is necessary for whatever is necessary in what He is asking - hence no glory nor thanks anywhere but to God.
The word "saint" around me if ever and totally rare, totally - and always by those who do not know me well in real life, is really very funny, Mark. No saint here for sure. Stories or anecdotes in my case, always in the living of them seem vastly different to the writing about them later, or verbally describing them- and most much larger, totally different, than they actually were at the time.

[BarbTherese]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1350779387' post='2495508']
[img]http://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/2012/1/31/3971a145-423c-413e-91e9-8969dcdaa40e.jpg[/img]

Try some Camels. A pack a day keeps the Llama nightmares away!

[img]http://freeelectroniccigarettes.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Camel-cigarettes.jpg[/img]
[/quote]


...............................
Don't know about this "meth' business, but the poor guy just could be having a bad Bipolar episode

[BarbTherese]

Reyb - I just checked your Profile, a little concerned about you, and you haven't posted anywhere on Phatmass for a while now it seems to me. I am hoping that you are ok in every way.
I know it could be anything at all, including a computer problem.
I'm just a totally professional worrier!

God bless - Barb

[Groo the Wanderer]

still this? wowsers

[Mark of the Cross]

[quote name='BarbaraTherese' timestamp='1350993351' post='2496269']
Reyb - I just checked your Profile, a little concerned about you, and you haven't posted anywhere on Phatmass for a while now it seems to me. I am hoping that you are ok in every way.
I know it could be anything at all, including a computer problem.
I'm just a totally professional worrier!

God bless - Barb
[/quote]
Rey comes and goes. He gets a few people who don't know him into some serious discussion. Once the penny drops and people lose interest he disappears for a while. To Catholic Answers maybe???

[Nihil Obstat]

I miss that weird dude JimR_OCDS, or however he spelled his username. Super ultra-liberal 'catholic'. Really easy to debate against.

[reyb]

[quote name='Mark of the Cross' timestamp='1351112985' post='2497105']
Rey comes and goes. He gets a few people who don't know him into some serious discussion. Once the penny drops and people lose interest he disappears for a while. To Catholic Answers maybe???
[/quote]


You are correct since I usually lost my appetite to discuss things I already said many times over.

If you previously read me thru all my threads, posts and arguments in this forum, you will clearly notice I am insisting that there is another Jesus different from your historical Jesus. My purpose in showing the untruthfulness or lack of authenticity of your historical Jesus - which is usually tainted with all kinds of useless suspicions - is not to insult or degrade anyone’s pride much more to lose faith in God and in his Christ but to inform you – which is the very least I can possibly do - that there is another Jesus in whom your inner being truly longing for as a believer. This is what Apostle Paul’s feared for when he said ‘ (see 2 Cor 11:1-6)

[indent=1]I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those "super-apostles." I may not be a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge. We have made this perfectly clear to you in every way.[/indent]

Maybe you are now telling me I am the one who is leading you astray since I am presenting a different Jesus or a different gospel. But, have you not wondered how your pure devotion to Christ lead your mind astray? And how can I lead you (to this different Jesus) since I myself admitted I cannot reveal Him to you? So, who told you that the Christ of God is the historical Jesus from where 'you put up with it easily enough'?

We are all free to put our faith in whatever we believe to be true but, it does not follow that our faith is truly rested on truth if we only believe in this freedom. You must know it. You must see Christ himself then you are truly freed from lying spirit. Otherwise, you just believe ( having your freedom.)

BarbaraTherese,

Thank you and I am okay.

Edited October 25, 2012 by reyb

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Jesus died because he loves us. JESUS said " the greatest love a man can give is to die for his friends." JESUS took it one step further and died while we where still enemies. Which than goes to the verse where JESUS says "it is easy to die for a good man but not so easy to die for a bad man." Only GOD could die for our sins, how is this so unfathonable?

[reyb]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1351160420' post='2497486']
Jesus died because he loves us. JESUS said " the greatest love a man can give is to die for his friends." JESUS took it one step further and died while we where still enemies. Which than goes to the verse where JESUS says "it is easy to die for a good man but not so easy to die for a bad man." Only GOD could die for our sins, how is this so unfathonable?
[/quote]


Since you are telling me that it is easy to see – this great love of giving yourself for your friends in the same way Christ gave his life for you. Can you now please explain to me in what way Jesus’ death on the cross saves you from impending wrath of God?

Edited October 25, 2012 by reyb

[stevil]

If Jesus was a man, he would have died anyways, as all humans die eventually. Death is no surprise nor is it any great sacrifice.
The story of Jesus' death, it was no sacrifice, his life was taken from him against his will, forcibly by the Roman authorities.

I don't understand the excitement or profoundness others get over blood sacrifices, to me they are needless.

The idea that one can bestow their sins onto the death sacrifice of another thus be cleansed of all responsibility seems grotesque and irresponsible to me.
I stand by all my actions, whether I am proud of them or whether I have regrets, I cannot simply wash them away or delegate upon Jesus' death for atonement.

As an amoralist I am incapable of sin, I do not have knowledge of anything to be objectively wrong, but this does not mean I can't have a heavy weight on my conscience for my past deeds. It is I alone whom can offer forgiveness to myself, whom can move on and live my life rather than worry about misdeeds that I may have performed to others.

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1351188354' post='2497588']
If Jesus was a man, he would have died anyways, as all humans die eventually. Death is no surprise nor is it any great sacrifice.
The story of Jesus' death, it was no sacrifice, his life was taken from him against his will, forcibly by the Roman authorities.
[/quote]
This is only true if Jesus was not Divine. If He was, then it indeed was a sacrifice, because nobody could possibly compel Him against His Will.

[stevil]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1351189640' post='2497599']
This is only true if Jesus was not Divine. If He was, then it indeed was a sacrifice, because nobody could possibly compel Him against His Will.
[/quote]
But if he was divine, then doesn't he still live? Doesn't he have the power to come back and live a human life again? If this is true, then where is the sacrifice?

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='stevil' timestamp='1351189923' post='2497600']
But if he was divine, then doesn't he still live? Doesn't he have the power to come back and live a human life again? If this is true, then where is the sacrifice?
[/quote]
I am not quite sure what you are asking here.