Was My Lie A Mortal Sin?

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

lets take this biblical example, saint peter lied about knowing jesus 3 times, but it was blurted out and not concocted.

anyhow i think ToJesusMyHeart said this was enough she understands better now, so i'm not posting anymore here

[Nihil Obstat]

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349748515' post='2491494']
so maybe there are various levels of gravety, and i say again that the catechism as far as i'm aware is not an infallible doctrine of faith and morals. Is it ? Concocting up a lie to decieve sounds pretty grave to me maybe not the worst of the worst but to me still grave, as opposed to an assumption or say you accidently just blurt out a lie and realise when you get home you just lied to someone, and even than habitual blurting out a lie could become a grave matter due to frequency or a matter for a medical professional.
[/quote]

Fine, I guess I will do this myself.
Here is the difference:


[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm"]1858[/url][/b] [i]Grave matter[/i] is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."[sup]132[/sup] The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.[/indent]
[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm"]1859[/url][/b] Mortal sin requires [i]full knowledge[/i] and [i]complete consent[/i]. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart[sup]133[/sup] do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.[/indent]

Then as a supplement, consider what I posted at the start of this thread:

[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a8.htm"]2484[/url][/b] The [i]gravity of a lie[/i] is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.[/indent]




You have consistently confused knowledge, consent, and matter.

[quote name='Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye' timestamp='1349748853' post='2491495']
lets take this biblical example, saint peter lied about knowing jesus 3 times, but it was blurted out and not concocted.
[/quote]

Grave matter. I think we should also argue deliberate consent as well, since he did it three separate times with space for reflection.

[CatherineM]

My first lesson in Agronomy was about the difference between dirt and soil. Soil is what you grow stuff in. Dirt is displaced soil.

Making an excuse to stay out of trouble is human. We've all done it.

[ToJesusMyHeart]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1349750869' post='2491507']
My first lesson in Agronomy was about the difference between dirt and soil. Soil is what you grow stuff in. Dirt is displaced soil.

Making an excuse to stay out of trouble is human. We've all done it.
[/quote]

Funny you mention soil, because the class I missed was botany, and we've learned about soils.

Thank you for helping me not beat myself up. (Although I still acknowledge the fault!)

[White Knight]

[quote name='ToJesusMyHeart' timestamp='1349729989' post='2491358']
I lied to my teacher today.

I'm a junior in college. I was on my way to class, but I had to stop at the library to do some last minute work on an assignment due today. Well, the computer didn't work the way I needed it to, and thus I spent more time finishing the assignment than I anticipated. By the time I finished what I needed to finish, class had already started, and we can't be late. We also had a quiz today, and usually if you miss class, you cannot make up the quiz.

In order to not get penalized for missing the quiz, I lied to my teacher by emailing her and saying that I was sick today and unable to come to class. Usually, we are required to get "university documentation" for sickness, but my university only gives out documentation for SERIOUS illnesses, like appendicitis and heart attacks. They don't care if you have the flu or a cold or a migraine, etc--only "dire" illnesses. Anyway, that's sort of besides the point.

So I lied about being sick, in order that my grade wouldn't suffer. I was planning on going to class, was on my way to class--just had to make that "quick" pitstop in the library printing center, which turned out to take much longer than I thought--and thus couldn't make it to class. I know all of of this could have been avoided if I had been prepared for class ahead of time.

I just can't figure out if I've sinned mortally by lying in this way, or if it was only venial. I want to go to daily mass, but I'm not sure if I need to go to Confession first. Thank you for taking the time to help.

p.s. If I should ask this in the Ask a Scholar forum, I'll do so. Thanks!
[/quote]


Well since its not a life or death matter about the whole sickness thing. It is definately something that is a venial sin, still wrong that is true, but its not going to be mortal if you dont have full consent, deliberate effort in doing it, and it being seriously a [b]GRAVE Wrong/ offence.[/b]


God Bless You.



[b][b]1859[/b] Mortal sin requires [i]full knowledge[/i] and [i]complete consent[/i]. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart[sup][size=2]133[/size][/sup] do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.[/b]


[b][b]1860[/b] [i]Unintentional ignorance[/i] can diminish or even remove the imputability of a grave offense. But no one is deemed to be ignorant of the principles of the moral law, which are written in the conscience of every man. The promptings of feelings and passions can also diminish the voluntary and free character of the offense, as can external pressures or pathological disorders. Sin committed through malice, by deliberate choice of evil, is the gravest.[/b]

Edited October 9, 2012 by White Knight

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1349750063' post='2491504']
Fine, I guess I will do this myself.
Here is the difference:


[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm"]1858[/url][/b] [i]Grave matter[/i] is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."[sup]132[/sup] The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.[/indent]
[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s1c1a8.htm"]1859[/url][/b] Mortal sin requires [i]full knowledge[/i] and [i]complete consent[/i]. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart[sup]133[/sup] do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.[/indent]

Then as a supplement, consider what I posted at the start of this thread:

[indent=1][b][url="http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a8.htm"]2484[/url][/b] The [i]gravity of a lie[/i] is measured against the nature of the truth it deforms, the circumstances, the intentions of the one who lies, and the harm suffered by its victims. If a lie in itself only constitutes a venial sin, it becomes mortal when it does grave injury to the virtues of justice and charity.[/indent]




You have consistently confused knowledge, consent, and matter.



Grave matter. I think we should also argue deliberate consent as well, since he did it three separate times with space for reflection.
[/quote]


I just wan't to add one more thing, I see all this and know this to a degree, so the ccc 1859 says full knowledge and complete consent. I talked to the reverend at our parish and he said there is always consent to sin, and ToJesusMy Heart has stated he or she knows it is a sin to lie. One other thing i picked up from the reverend deacon which i already knew, he said that an example of an exceptable lie is when your protecting another person like when during ww2 people lied when they where hiding jews in there house and the nazis asked are there any jews in this house.

Onward christian souls.
JESUS iz LORD.

JC "be baptised and believe and you will be saved."

<edit> P.s. Why argue lets just talk about it. And saint paul was under sermountable pressure due to the threat of death. Another thing i would like to bring up is this,' is it graver defending our own life with a lie than defending somone elses?'

Edited October 9, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I'm sorry if my talk is offending you ToJesusMyHeart or anyone else, i'm only learning this christ life.But also i must say in the end it is between you and GOD and your choice as to whether to confess it or not, and remembering GOD loves you know matter what without assuming his mercy.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

[quote name='CatherineM' timestamp='1349750869' post='2491507']
My first lesson in Agronomy was about the difference between dirt and soil. Soil is what you grow stuff in. Dirt is displaced soil.

Making an excuse to stay out of trouble is human. We've all done it.
[/quote]

This is true, but doesn't make it ok. Neither does understanding we all fall short at times or have fallen short previously as such absolve us of the felony.

Edited October 10, 2012 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[cmaD2006]

Tab:

Not all sin is per se the same. Stealing a 20 cent piece of candy is not the same as stealing hundreds of thousands from an employer and is not the same as stealing the hundreds of thousands from a bank during a heist where guns are used and the tellers are terrorized.

The first one is not a mortal sin. Even if there was intent.

The second and third ones have the potential of being mortal sin, and the third is worse than the second. But both have a grave/serious offense involved. The 20 cent piece of candy being stolen is not a grave offense (in fact -- a store owner would probably give you the candy if you asked, while an employer is not going to give you thousands just because).

You're probably going to disagree -- but if I were you do your homework using Catholic sources. The concept of mortal vs. venial is solely a Catholic concept; protestants usually do not make that distinction and of course most do not have the Sacrament of confession. I say most because some protestant churches (eg: Episcopal/Anglican) do have the sacrament of confession (note -- I am not getting into the argument of whether or not they have valid sacraments; some churches still refer to "sacrament" even if in the Catholic view the sacraments are invalid/illicit/etc.).