How Can Men Be Like Mary?

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 01:48 AM']
I should probably say here that the place of Mary in the church and the politics of the Catholic Church government are what keeps me "protestant" so to speak, so I apologize for upsetting the fruit basket a bit. If you really want to convert me, you'll have to put up with my questions No, please don't intentionally try to convert me. God will do that on His own if He wants. [/quote]
We don't want to convert you, as has been said by me and others many times. But we would like to change some of your mistaken concepts about the Catholic Church.

The Church is a-political. She has no politics. She operates a diplomatic service which has been very helpful in settling many, many disputes between countries, of every form of government and religious majority. It operates quietly and without fanfare or publicity. But she does not tell people what form of government they should have. She she takes "sides" on moral grounds alone. She is not against Democrats, but against abortion, for example.

When the Church interjects herself into political issues it is because the issues impact the Catholic Faith. Thus she speaks out on the issues of cloning, stem cell research, abortion, euthanasia, treatment of the very young and elderly, modern forms of slavery, and so forth. She is neither Republican nor Democrat, neither Whig nor Tory, neither pro- or con- monarchies, neither pro- nor anti-tribal. The Church does not favor one form of government over another. She does not favor democracy over oligarchy, for example, or any other form of government. She is interested in what happens to people as a result of government, but she does not engage in trying to influence who governs what country and the form of government engaged in.

I commend you for being open to learning the truth about how Mary is viewed by the Catholic Church.

Ave Cor Mariae, Jay

[Ellenita]

Likos,

Your post should be pinned during election year!

[RandomProddy]

[quote name='Katholikos' date='May 25 2004, 01:43 AM'] , neither Whig nor Tory, [/quote]
lol

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 01:25 AM'] I just feel like Jesus gets left in the dust in Catholic world. In front of the alter is always a depiction of Christ DYING an agonizing death for the sake of mankind, but the thing the Catholic Church is associated with most is Mary and saints. And the Pope, don't forget him. It just seems a little bit of a backwards focus to me. Doesn't jive right with my belief-o-monitor.

I'll answer whoever's post when I go back and read it after this. [/quote]
The Mass is the central act of worship in the Catholic Church. It is a re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary. The Sacrifice occurred outside time, and is not repeated but made present to us again whenever the Divine Liturgy is celebrated. When we kneel at the Mass, we are kneeling at the foot of Calvary. All attention is focused on Our Savior and His Sacrifice. The Eucharist is Jesus Himself -- His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity -- offered to the Father and then given to us as real food for the journey through life. We've much to teach you, and it can't be done overnight. Stay with us. You'll see poco-a-poco (little by little) how Christ-centered our religion is.

I have fixed my eyes on your hills, Jerusalem, my destiny.
Tho' I cannot see the end for me, I cannot turn away.
We have set our hearts for the way;
This journey is our destiny.
Let no one walk alone.
The journey makes us one.
(song by Rory Cooney)

JMJ Jay (Likos)

[Dusty Fro]

Ah, I think I just said up there how women can imitate Jesus pretty well.

I thought this belonged here too: How can people specifically imitate Mary anyways? The Bible, at least the 66 book one I read, has very little about her life and actions. That's not enough for ME to say I want to imitate her. Now if there's more specific stuff in Catholic literature about her, I might see where you're coming from.

[Katholikos]

[quote name='Dusty Fro' date='May 24 2004, 11:53 PM'] Ah, I think I just said up there how women can imitate Jesus pretty well.

I thought this belonged here too:  How can people specifically imitate Mary anyways?  The Bible, at least the 66 book one I read, has very little about her life and actions.  That's not enough for ME to say I want to imitate her.  Now if there's more specific stuff in Catholic literature about her, I might see where you're coming from. [/quote]
The Church has known Mary "up close and personal" since Jesus breathed life into it and made the Apostles its leaders and teachers. Mary's care -- St. Joseph was presumably dead and Jesus' death would have left her without male protection in a patriarchial society -- was entrusted to the Apostle John. We -- the members of the Church -- are the "beloved disciple" to whom Mary was given. So Mary is Mother of the Church. And as Jesus is our brother, so Mary is our Mother. She lived with the Apostles for several years until her Assumption. She was in the Upper Room with the Apostles when the Holy Spirit fell upon them -- and her -- at Pentecost.

Protestants don't see the close, personal relationship between Mary and her Son. She nursed him, changed his diapers, washed his clothes, loved him, cared for him, kissed his hurts, nurtured him from infancy, endured His teen-age years, brought Him to adulthood. He was Fully Human, Fully Divine. My favorite painting is of Mary, breast exposed, nursing the child Jesus. Having been one, I know that Protestants never meditate on these aspects. It's as if Christ were born grown. So they miss this dimension of the life of Christ.

There are several books we could recommend, when you're ready. Chief among them would be [i]Hail, Holy Queen,[/i] a biblical study of Mary in the Old and New Testaments, by a former Presbyterian pastor, biblical scholar, and theologian named Dr. Scott Hahn. Available at Amazon, new and used.

Edited May 25, 2004 by Katholikos

[Ellenita]

[quote]The Bible, at least the 66 book one I read, has very little about her life and actions. That's not enough for ME to say I want to imitate her.[/quote]

As has often been said here at Phatmass, the books of the new testament were written by members of the early church for instruction to the early church. The apostles who passed the oral tradition of teaching down to the authors who eventually wrote the books would have known Mary personally. It is highly likely that Mary, who never sought glory or fame for herself but always pointed others to her Son first would have been clear, that the emphasis in the tradition passed down must be on her Son.

What do we know about Mary from the 'little' that's written about her in the books in the NT?

She was completely obedient to the will of God in her life.
She had total faith in God.
She trusted God with all her heart, her mind and her body.
She was willing to sacrifice every aspect of her being to God.
She was willing to be vilified and rejected by others for God.
She always placed Jesus above her own self.
She loved her Son.
She always pointed others to Jesus......

....there is more of course, but isn't that an amazing start? Who wouldn't want to imitate her!

[Dusty Fro]

I just got a funny picture of Mary holding a sign on a road that says "Jesus this way --->" Ok, nevermind

I really don't ask these things to be a pestilence, it honestly doesn't make sense to me, or at least not enough sense.

[Anna]

That's really Mary's mission, Dusty Fro.

She was truly the first Christian, the very first Christ-bearer.

She brought Christ to others, to the entire world.
From the stable, she held Him in her arms and presented Him to those who came to worship.
At the foot of the cross, she held open her arms and received His pierced Body from the Roman soldiers.

She gave Him to us, willingly, painfully.
She followed in His footsteps as a perfect imitator of Him.

Doubtful that any other human being could love Christ more than Mary did or does.

And she takes no credit for herself, as she is just a creature.
She, like a true Mother, watches out for her children, and directs them onto the right path, the path to Jesus Christ.

That's all.
And that's enough, for us to love Her.

[Mary's Knight, La]

As was said Dusty,

You have the exact right image of Mary.

quick look at her life according to the Gospels

She said yes to God (Let it be done unto me...)
She prayed to God (They have no wine)
She taught other people to follow God (Do what He tells you)
She cared for God's people (Mother behold your son)

John though he was youngest of the apostles (I think) understood "Mother behold your son" was not "Mother behold John, your son." but was really "Mother behold your son in him." and son behold your mother was really because I work through you, you are her son and have the right to a mother's love from her.

If you want a really good example on how a man can imitate mary read about St. Maximillian Kolbe

[Dusty Fro]

That could be like saying believers are all in the family of God though. And isn't there a Catholic tradition of Godparents, where they also act like mothers and fathers to little Catholics?