Tip Your Pizza Hut Driver Or He Might Pee On Your Door

[Jaybird]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1352521703' post='2507603']
I remember once at a restaurant when I was fourteen I gave the waitress a tip. Except I was nervous, so I didn't leave it on the table, I literally gave it to her. I realized later she probably felt like a stripper.
[/quote]

that's funny, but I think she woulda felt like a stripper had you put it inside her waste band.

[Jaybird]

[quote name='Jaybird' timestamp='1352522821' post='2507605']

that's funny, but I think she woulda felt like a stripper had you put it inside her waste band.
[/quote]
oh excuse me, waist band, long night

[Jaybird]

gosh the English language can be so confusing sometimes. there, they're, their, you're your, waist, waste. wutever.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='Jaybird' timestamp='1352523253' post='2507610']
gosh the English language can be so confusing sometimes. there, they're, their, you're your, waist, waste. wutever.
[/quote]

*whatever*

Sorry, it was a cheap shot I had to take.

[PhuturePriest]

[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352387706' post='2506537']
that's disgusting... i wonder if he washed his hands in antibacterial hand sanitizer before delivering the next pizza!
[/quote]

I've worked in the restaurant business all my life. I can tell you with certainty that he didn't.

[Jaybird]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1352523339' post='2507611']

*whatever*

Sorry, it was a cheap shot I had to take.
[/quote]

this I actually know, I can be a lazy typer

[Jaybird]

[quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1352523461' post='2507614']

I've worked in the restaurant business all my life. I can tell you with certainty that he didn't.
[/quote]
now you're really gonna make her puke!

[Aloysius]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1352496032' post='2507366']
A waiter or delivery person is not a contracted worker of the individual he is serving, but an employee of the business he works for. [b]It isn't my responsibility as a patron of the business to ensure that the employee is being paid a just wage, it is the responsibility of the business employing the individual[/b]. The business could have a minimum gratuity of X% on all delivery orders, or a restaraunt a mandatory X% gratuity on all dine in orders - this is often seen for parties of 6 or larger in restaraunts.

If I owned a restaraunt I would probably include a 10% mandatory gratuity on all checks with a note on the check and in the menu that 10% is mandatory and to please tip above and beyond that if you feel the service provided justifies a higher tip. Or I would pay a just living wage and all tips would be turned into the business. A % comission/bonus would go back to the waiter to account for the service the waiter provided. That businesses do that is no fault or problem of the patron. Europe has it right in that regard. Charge for the services provided, pay your waiters just wages, and any tips can be provided for [u]exemplary service [/u]at the whim of the patron.
[/quote]
I absolutely disagree. When it is within your power to either provide a just wage or not (and it is within your power when you utilize the services of someone who is paid on the basis of tips) then the responsibility absolutely falls upon you. splitting hairs about not defining them as being individually contracted by you makes no sense. you did not hire them, sure, but by patronizing that restaurant or delivery service you enlisted their services, you came in and expected them to serve you, they served you expecting you to tip them. from a moral point of view that is no different than hiring someone; if you get someone to do something for you knowing that they are doing that for you expecting to be paid, you are obligated to pay them.

the idea of just washing your hands of it and saying it's up the the employer to make sure the wage is just is totally wrong. maybe you are of the opinion that we should have a more European system, that's great, but when you utilize a service under the American system and you know full well that the work the server is providing to you is being provided on the basis that they are expecting to be paid a tip from you, and you do not tip them, you have absolutely wronged that person. whether there's a systematic flaw or problem in the way servers are paid is a whole other issue; from the standpoint of your human interaction with a fellow human being, refusing to tip a server is absolutely a sin against that person.

As an extreme example for hashing out some points: Imagine some world in which a restaurant used slave labor. Would you be morally justified in patronizing that restaurant, since it's the employer's responsibility to pay a wage and if the employer's not doing it, that's not your concern? say you did end up having to eat at such a restaurant, wouldn't you feel morally obligated to pay those slaves if you could do so, whether or not the employer himself is morally implicated in their slavery? That is obviously an extreme example, but thinking about that type of scenario is a good way to envision what moral obligation you have as a customer.

btw, are you actually defending not tipping someone who is paid on the basis of tips as morally justifiable, or are you simply disagreeing with the degree to which I am condemning it as withholding just wages from workers? if the former, I find that position absolutely untenable from a moral point of view.

[ardillacid]

[quote name='Tantum Ergo' timestamp='1352390304' post='2506561']
There are many in food service who are paid below minimum wage because it is expected they will make up for it in tips. The pizza delivery guys at my local pizza hut in Kansas were paid a little above $2 a hour.
[/quote]
Sorry for instigating. I tip very well

I think a lot of people assume that the pizza delivery drivers have the tip worked into the bill already. Both the pizza places I ordered from on a regular basis in college had a "Delivery Fee" on the bill. They are screwing their own drivers by putting that on there. What's it for if it doesn't go to the driver?

Al, from your perspective, what does a waiter have to do to be deserving of a tip?

[Aloysius]

if they are paid based on tips and you both know this, then the waiter simply must provide you with a service... if they bring you food and you eat it, you should tip them. if the service is bad, you tip badly. if the service is good, you tip well. only if the service is non-existent should you not tip at all--if the service is so bad that you don't end up eating there, that's a reason for no tip. if the service is very bad but you suffer through it and still utilize the service by eating, then you should respond with a bad tip, even as low as 5% or something, maybe in extreme circumstances, ie if you think there was malicious intent in the bad service, lower than that.

[Tantum Ergo]

[quote name='ardillacid' timestamp='1352560429' post='2507742']
Sorry for instigating. I tip very well

I think a lot of people assume that the pizza delivery drivers have the tip worked into the bill already. Both the pizza places I ordered from on a regular basis in college had a "Delivery Fee" on the bill. They are screwing their own drivers by putting that on there. What's it for if it doesn't go to the driver?

Al, from your perspective, what does a waiter have to do to be deserving of a tip?
[/quote]

I'm sure the purpose of the delivery fee can vary from restaurant to restaurant. Back when my husband worked a pizza delivery job, the $1.50 delivery fee went to him to help cover his gas. This was for Gambino's pizza in Kansas. I don't know what other chains do, but I'd assume it would be for the same reason. It's probably there just in case someone doesn't tip, to make sure the delivery driver will at least come out even by being reimbursing the cost of his gas.

For me, personally, I will always tip a waiter the expected amount unless they're like, downright rude or insulting (that's never happened to me yet, so I've always tipped). If the waiter was especially friendly and had exceptionally good service, I will tip them more.

I will still tip even if the waiter was a little frazzled and isn't there to fill up my water when I need it, etc. I've been in food service, and I have many friends who've worked in food service, and I know it can be hard. Sometimes you are over-burdened when it's not your fault. I will just assume the poor waiter has way too many people to look after properly and tip him anyway.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Tantum Ergo

[XIX]

[quote name='Aloysius' timestamp='1352561457' post='2507749']
if they are paid based on tips and you both know this, then the waiter simply must provide you with a service... if they bring you food and you eat it, you should tip them. if the service is bad, you tip badly. if the service is good, you tip well. only if the service is non-existent should you not tip at all--if the service is so bad that you don't end up eating there, that's a reason for no tip. if the service is very bad but you suffer through it and still utilize the service by eating, then you should respond with a bad tip, even as low as 5% or something, maybe in extreme circumstances, ie if you think there was malicious intent in the bad service, lower than that.
[/quote]
I think refusing to tip is better classified as stealing. The delivery person may be owed a wage for the services enlisted by the customer; however, a few bucks is not going to make the difference between having a living wage or not.

Still stealing though, and still kind of a big deal.

[CatholicCid]

How would one know when a waiter and/or service provider is paid by tips? I think Europe handles this correctly by simply charging a service fee. This especially makes sense in restaurants, where it wouldn't be permissible for you to simply serve yourself. This does mean that service can go down, but it can also mean that less doors will be peed on.

I must admit, I fail to see how tipping could be conceived as denying one one's just wage or even as theft. If anything, the underlying problems seems to be that restaurants are failing to provide a just wage via a salary of at least minimum wage. I would think that the waiting staff should be considered a vital part of the full restaurant experience and, as such, should not be divorced from the expenses of the restaurant, just as the chef is normally paid a just wage and not compensated by tips.

Delivery drivers are a bit different, but, if I see a service charge on the bill, I would assume that that is considered the "tip", as it seems to quite literally mean that you are paying for that service being rendered by the delivery driver. (I'm honestly not sure if this is done or not, as I simply don't order delivery for myself.)

As to this particular driver... If his automatic response was to urinate on the door, I think we can call into question the type of service he may have provided. The first question to ask would be if he did actually make minimum wage or not.

Edited November 15, 2012 by CatholicCid

[Aloysius]

in the US, you can generally assume that the service staff is being paid tip-based wages. it varies from state to state how much they are paid, from as little as $2.25 to some states being around $4 at most. if you're in doubt, you should tip. you could always ask if you're not sure, though that's generally an awkward question, you can research it online if you want I suppose. generally it's pretty well known what places base wages on tips.

when you patron a restaurant where servers are being paid based on tips, it is irrelevant whether it's right that the restaurant should be doing that or not. if you think it should be more like the European system, then that's a fine theory you have there, but in practice it doesn't absolve you from the obligation to pay a tip. It'd be like going to a parallel universe restaurant that used slave labor, and saying it wasn't your fault that the slaves weren't being paid, that's all on the restaurant owner; no, it's on you. sure, the restaurant owner would be at fault ALSO, but so would you.

Obviously that's an extreme example, but it illustrates that you do indeed hold certain responsibilities as a consumer, especially when you have the opportunity to participate in the payment of the person giving you service. I don't really see how you don't see not tipping as depriving a worker of wages; you go to a place where you know the server is expecting a tip in exchange for their service, they provide you with service expecting the tip, you don't give them a tip... you deprived them of the expected payment. bad tipping versus good tipping is an entirely different story, but NOT TIPPING AT ALL is depriving workers of a wage that was due to them for their service to you.

Now, to the argument that no one's in danger of not getting a living wage if you individually don't tip, I don't agree that this constitutes it not being withholding wages from a worker. you have a personal responsibility to tip the waiter completely separate from how much he's getting from other people; when he does a service for you, you owe him a wage for that service. just because other people make up for you stiffing him does not mean you have not deprive him of a wage that was justly due to him. but if you don't want to go with that paradigm, I will grant that at the very least it's theft of services.

Honestly, I don't know what was going on with the delivery driver. he could've been having a bad day, maybe a lot of people had already stiffed him, maybe he was having emotional trouble or financial trouble... while I do not justify what he did, I absolutely understand the emotional state that he was driven to by not being tipped. It is very emotionally enraging to be stiffed by someone, it is certainly the type of thing that inspires emotions of vengeance. that's why it's not hard for me to connect the sin of not tipping with one of the four sins that cries out to heaven for vengeance, that would mostly apply for poor workers who rely on their tips as their main income, because God sides with the poor and identifies with them, and he would absolutely share in the outrage of the service worker getting stiffed.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

[quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1352410554' post='2506657']
Wages for waiters delivery drivers etc vary greatly. My understanding in my city is that all our delivery folks and waiters get paid minimum wage as well as whatever tips they make.

[/quote]

True, tipped employees still make a minimum wage, however the Federal Minimum wage for tipped employees is $2.13 an hour. The tips from customers is what most server rely on, not their wages. Wages are just enough that you are beholden to the corporation.