Regarding Leaving Communities

[Gabriela]

I can see the sense in the sentiment that "wherever you are, it's because God wants you there", but at the same time, it seems to me that it implies we can never go wrong, that we can't stray from His path or ignore His will. But I think we can. I spent most of my life in non-Christian religions, and I still wonder all the time: Was I really following God's will, or was I stubbornly pursuing my own and just telling myself that it was His? I can see some reasons why He might have dragged me through the path I went down, but then, He turns everything into good. So it's possible, I think, that a person can in fact be NOT doing God's will, but in His infinite love, He will still work with that. It's hard for me to accept that God wanted me to be slandering His son in anti-Christian circles—but that's where I was for a long time, [i]because I thought it was His will[/i].

It makes me wonder: Since God is outside of time, is it no matter to Him that we come to faith only late in our life? Or does He really want us following Christ from our very first steps as toddlers? Could it possibly be His will that we should wander through foreign religions in order to find Him? That's saying that God wants us to sin so that our conversion experiences will be that much greater.

Basically, I find this a much more mysterious topic than it's looking like so far in this thread, because it's hard for me to imagine that He wanted me in the places I was. And if that could be true in my case, then I think it could be true in others. I [i]thought[/i] I was doing His will, but sometimes it's easy to confuse His will with one's own... I think there are some things we won't know for sure until we see Him face to face. The best we can do, I guess, is to try to follow what we feel pretty sure is His will, to have good intentions and keep listening, and to let Him do the rest. Cuz we at least know for sure that He'll turn everything to good. :-)

Edited November 12, 2012 by curiousing

[cmaD2006]

Curiosing:

It is possible to think you're doing His will by really doing your own ... I think good intentions are key though. And I kind of agree -- it is a bit more than "wherever you are, it is because God wants you there."

Sometimes humans get in the way because of their sin. He gives us free will ... and we decide to do good or evil. And yes -- even in convents. So -- there are cases where a person has to leave (by choosing or not) because of sinfulness, sometimes even on the part of a professed sister.

I cannot 100% believe that in a case where bad/evil occured that "that's what God wanted" or that "God did not want you there." I can go with however "that was allowed by God and good will come of it."

It is a subtlety. But an important one -- because God never wants something that is bad or hurtful for us (He is not a God of evil) but He does allow it.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1352695252' post='2508468']
I can see the sense in the sentiment that "wherever you are, it's because God wants you there", but at the same time, it seems to me that it implies we can never go wrong, that we can't stray from His path or ignore His will. But I think we can. I spent most of my life in non-Christian religions, and I still wonder all the time: Was I really following God's will, or was I stubbornly pursuing my own and just telling myself that it was His? I can see some reasons why He might have dragged me through the path I went down, but then, He turns everything into good. So it's possible, I think, that a person can in fact be NOT doing God's will, but in His infinite love, He will still work with that. It's hard for me to accept that God wanted me to be slandering His son in anti-Christian circles—but that's where I was for a long time, [i]because I thought it was His will[/i].

It makes me wonder: Since God is outside of time, is it no matter to Him that we come to faith only late in our life? Or does He really want us following Christ from our very first steps as toddlers? Could it possibly be His will that we should wander through foreign religions in order to find Him? That's saying that God wants us to sin so that our conversion experiences will be that much greater.

Basically, I find this a much more mysterious topic than it's looking like so far in this thread, because it's hard for me to imagine that He wanted me in the places I was. And if that could be true in my case, then I think it could be true in others. I [i]thought[/i] I was doing His will, but sometimes it's easy to confuse His will with one's own... I think there are some things we won't know for sure until we see Him face to face. The best we can do, I guess, is to try to follow what we feel pretty sure is His will, to have good intentions and keep listening, and to let Him do the rest. Cuz we at least know for sure that He'll turn everything to good. :-)
[/quote]


I tend to agree with you here.I am a bit hesitant to say that God wants everything that happens to us but I do believe that He can turn all to our good if we allow Him to do so by trusting in Him and contuing to walk towards Him.

I have made many mistakes in my discernment and although He has used every situation for my good, that doesn't mean it wouldn't have been better for me to have done things differently in the past.

The main point is not to beat ourselves up over our mistakes but just like the just man who falls seven times a day, we get up, brush ourselves off, trust in God and keeping moving forward. Can a vocation be lost? Perhaps, but does that really matter? We can't go back and change a single second of the past. We can and should examine how we are living our lives now and try to align them with God's will for us now, not what it 'might' have been in the past. He forgives and He works with us where we are. He also knows that we are weak and need His help in all things. I am sorry that I made mistakes, but I use them to help me avoid them now.

In the end, it's about love. Our love for Him and His love for us. Everything else is designed to help us remember that.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

[quote name='curiousing' timestamp='1352695252' post='2508468']
I can see the sense in the sentiment that "wherever you are, it's because God wants you there", but at the same time, it seems to me that it implies we can never go wrong, that we can't stray from His path or ignore His will. But I think we can. I spent most of my life in non-Christian religions, and I still wonder all the time: Was I really following God's will, or was I stubbornly pursuing my own and just telling myself that it was His? I can see some reasons why He might have dragged me through the path I went down, but then, He turns everything into good. So it's possible, I think, that a person can in fact be NOT doing God's will, but in His infinite love, He will still work with that. It's hard for me to accept that God wanted me to be slandering His son in anti-Christian circles—but that's where I was for a long time, [i]because I thought it was His will[/i].

It makes me wonder: Since God is outside of time, is it no matter to Him that we come to faith only late in our life? Or does He really want us following Christ from our very first steps as toddlers? Could it possibly be His will that we should wander through foreign religions in order to find Him? That's saying that God wants us to sin so that our conversion experiences will be that much greater.

Basically, I find this a much more mysterious topic than it's looking like so far in this thread, because it's hard for me to imagine that He wanted me in the places I was. And if that could be true in my case, then I think it could be true in others. I [i]thought[/i] I was doing His will, but sometimes it's easy to confuse His will with one's own... I think there are some things we won't know for sure until we see Him face to face. The best we can do, I guess, is to try to follow what we feel pretty sure is His will, to have good intentions and keep listening, and to let Him do the rest. Cuz we at least know for sure that He'll turn everything to good. :-)
[/quote]

Whoooaaa- this could turn into a Jesuit vs Thomistic view of predestination. Seriously you do make valid points. It is a bit more of a mystery then we are stating. But as Nunsense says it is more about not living in the past. You cannot change the fact that you were in non-Christian religions, but you can see how God has used them for the good in your life now. If that was his will or not, in actuality is a moot point, but not what is being really discussed here. I tend to believe God led me into religious life- as there were many circumstances surrounding it that were miraculous and discernment of spirits. He lead me out for now, and I hope one day to be back in. I frequent the sacraments, have a regular prayer life, and am in a state of grace. I don't think God is going to let me wonder far from him. If we honestly pursue his will, do you think he would deny us this knowledge? Due to my selflove and baggage it may take me a little longer to see and understand his will, but he will get me there. This is my take on it anyway.

Thanks for posting your thoughts. It gave me a chance to reflect quite a bit, even though most of my thoughts I couldn't never put into words.

[nikita92]

If one has been in a community for any lenght of time....years...and then needs/have to leave it....if one has disposed of all their wordly pocessions upon entering..what does one do in order to re-enter the world (they left ) with having nothing?? If one gets serious health issues etc..doesnt your community take care of you? What happens if one has very little family on the outside? Please forgive my ignorant questions..im just looking at it from a realistic view. Thanks

[dominicansoul]

that is something I have found disappointing, that there is not a "network" so to speak, to help those who leave their communities adjust to the world again...

[Gabriela]

[quote name='nikita92' timestamp='1352774709' post='2508900']
If one has been in a community for any lenght of time....years...and then needs/have to leave it....if one has disposed of all their wordly pocessions upon entering..what does one do in order to re-enter the world (they left ) with having nothing?? If one gets serious health issues etc..doesnt your community take care of you? What happens if one has very little family on the outside? Please forgive my ignorant questions..im just looking at it from a realistic view. Thanks
[/quote]
[quote name='dominicansoul' timestamp='1352774933' post='2508904']
that is something I have found disappointing, that there is not a "network" so to speak, to help those who leave their communities adjust to the world again...
[/quote]

There was once an organization—I believe it was in the UK or New York—that supported people leaving religious communities or the priesthood. It no longer exists.

If Phatmass is the world's largest forum for discerners, why doesn't it also become the launching pad for such an organization?

[AnneLine]

If you brought a dowry, they give it back to you. (remember the end of The Nun's Story?)

And if you didn't bring one, they are bound to give you something. BUT, something usually isn't very much, and even a few hundred or a few thousand won't go very far.

This is why many communities suggest you keep somethign of your old life until you take your vows... but that isn't much help if that point has already passed.

I was in a community for about 6 months. My mother and father were alive, but I hadn't been living with them, and I had no other support available except friends. I came out with the $350 dowery, the clothes I entered with, some of my postulant clothes. The books, sewing machine and guitar I had brought with me were returned to me next time a car traveled from where the community was to where I was (about a month later). Felt a whole lot like Maria from the Sound of Music! The Sisters did pay for an an airplane ticket, but ONLY back to where my mother was, and they required her to meet me at the airport. I had kept only a bunch of shoes (because my feet are a real odd size and it is hard to get them to fit me); I'd let go of a professional wardrobe and furnishings for an apartment. (If I had it to do over again, I think I would have 'leased' them to friends for two years... with the option to purchase for some prayers for me on the day of vows when they became their property! Only 2 people offered to return any of the things to me... one is the cross that hangs beside my front door....)

I was blessed that I did have a place to go, and that I had good secretarial skills as I could get temp work almost immediately; not everyone is so blessed....

One of the people who had been in the novitiate ahead of me had to leave because of some serious physical problems shortly after I left. Her family refused to let her stay at her home... and basically divorced her.

One of the sisters from the community whispered in my ear that X needed help when I went down for the profession of the class ahead of hers... and we exchanged phone numbers. Later, she was SUPPORTED for a few months by me, and two of my male friends (one of whom later became my husband) as she was too ill to work more than part time, and had no insurance. This is NOT an ideal way to re-adjust to life in the world....

So yeah, sometimes people who leave really DO have a very hard time. I won't minimize that. But I do think that God puts the people and necessary help in place if we trust Him with our lives. She is just fine now.. and has a lovely family.

I was and am at peace about having gone in and having come out. I am convinced that God wanted me there for just the 6 months I stayed... and that part of the reason I was there was so that eventually I could be there for the one who left. But the adjustment year was tough. Just not using the words and customs that had been drilled into us. I called more than one male attorney 'Sister' without it being noticed (thank God!). And since the Internet didn't exist, I spent hours in teh library reading Time & Newsweek so I wouldn't be totally ignorant of what had happened since I 'left'. But it all worked out....

God will help you find your way. Just take it one step at a time....

Edited November 13, 2012 by AnneLine

[maximillion]

The adjustment was hard, very hard.

I returned to England via a ferry ticket purchased by the community for me,my habit on my back and in a little suitcase, and a few hundred pounds.
Since my exclaustration was at least at first temporary, other things came on later send by the community - guitar, some books, my missal etc.
I was met by my sister and went to live with her for a few weeks. However, her house was very small and we have never been that close, so as soon as I was able I got a job in nursing, with an agency, I was at this point still in the habit.......
As soon as I had made my application for the exclaustration to be made permanent, my sister kindly made some clothes for me ( I have to admit I insisted these were rather habit like garments!).
My hair was a problem, and for a year I kept it covered, it was in terrible condition and was very very thin on top where the weight of the veil etc had constantly rubbed. Even now I like to cover my head, but this is more a modesty thing.

The hardest was the speed of the traffic. I was TERRIFIED crossing roads. Of course it was a mis-perception that things went faster, it was simply that I was unused to dealing with traffic.
There were other difficulties, tax, national health insurance contributions, I was questioned and cross questioned in a not very nice way by various people in officialdom who simply had never come across someone who had lived in a cloister in a different country for 14 years.......I had no proof of taxes having been paid in the 14 years before I got my new job in nursing and I think I was simply not believed. Getting documents from the community in support of my position and my assertions took forever and they were in French. I think some people could cope with my having been a nun in France, but not that I had not been in any paid employment in all that time.

In all it all took just over two years to sort out, and that was not the end of the story. My current pension situation is difficult because of the 14 years when no contributions were made. This is something to think about if you enter in a different country..............

[AnneLine]

Maximillion,

Thank you for your sharing; it couldn't have been easy.... either at the time, or even to share with us.

Having said what I did, I also want to share this; every year we get people who try their vocations in my Secular order. Every one of them comes with the best of good will and eagerness... and a certain percentage will give the life a try (with full intention of going all the way....) and find that God wants something different. I know I always do everything in my power to help those who rrealize that God is not calling them to be with us to have a plan for what God wants next... what they learned, what they need that we didn't offer... what they don't need that we do require. That is just good formation work...

I think communities today FOR THE MOST PART are much better about helping people make the transition in and out. And I think the world and our families and friends are more open to people who realize God wants something different.

I have written as PMs to some details of my own decision, and I don't want to discuss the whole thing on line. BUT I will say this; I think the story of St. Francis (especially as described in the beautiful book [i]The Perfect Joy of St. Francis[/i]) gave me the inspiration to really evaluate what God did -- and did not -- want from and for me. I think I had pre-determined that the ONLY way I could see living my life out for Him was as a consecrated religious... and I wanted a very traditional community. And found one. And loved many things about it. But I realized the longer I stayed that the structure was not a good fit for me. My body was getting tenser and tenser. I was more and more unsure about the style of the community... even though I had NOT been surprised by what I found--it was exactly what I had expected. What was a surprise for ME was that I couldn't live that lifestyle. It was not a good fit for me... and no matter how hard I tried, it was less and less do-able all the time.

That is probably why the retelling of the story of St. Francis volunteering to go off to war in the wake of a dream.... a dream in which he saw armor and swords and all manner of soldierly paraphenalia... and a young girl telling him that these were for him and his followers... of COURSE he ran off to join the army! Of course he believed tht God was telling him to join the military campaign that was being organized! The problem was, it wasn't what God wanted from him. And so a few days later, when the same young girl from the dream re-surfaced in his dream and asked, "Which is better... to follow the servant or the master?" Francis responde, 'The Master'... She then said, "you have misunderstood the dream; go back." Even though he knew he would face contempt and ridicule, Francis returned to Assisi... because he knew he had not NOT heard God's call... he had misunderstood. And he needed to go where God was leading him.

As I prayed over that story, I too realized that I had misunderstood what God wanted from me. It wasn't that I hadn't HEARD him; I had misunderstood what He wanted. And when both my superiors and I prayed about it, we realized that that was exactly going on. I had to return and pick up where I had left off... recapture what God really did want from me. Was it easy? No. Would I go back... probably not because now I udnerstand the whys.... and what God actually had in mind... and it is better. Not easy, but better.

So.... I will say to all of you who feel God calling, don't be afraid to respond in love. Listen carefully, and be sure you are listening to Him, not just to your own desires and hopes. But trust that The One who is pure love and wisdom Knows what is best and that it will work out in the end.

My 2 cents.

[cmaD2006]

Actually re: dowry. Yes -- it is supposed to be returned. However, the money that I arrived with in Argentina was not returned to me when I left. In fact -- no accounting on how it was spent.

It just adds to a really bad experience that I lived through. I'm thankful .... but I would never wish that upon anyone, even my worst enemy.

[Nunsense]

[quote name='cmariadiaz' timestamp='1352871674' post='2509743']
Actually re: dowry. Yes -- it is supposed to be returned. However, the money that I arrived with in Argentina was not returned to me when I left. In fact -- no accounting on how it was spent.

It just adds to a really bad experience that I lived through. I'm thankful .... but I would never wish that upon anyone, even my worst enemy.
[/quote]



Well, maybe my worst enemy!

My worst financial experience wasn't with an established community but a new one - I left penniless and homeless becuase I trusted what I was told. At least when Kirk Edge sent me home, they saw me right with airfare and some cash to make sure I wouldn't starve. I am grateful to them for that act of charity. It reminded me a little of The Nun's Story (the book ending). She was looking for some sign of charity in her exit but couldn't find it until she noticed that they had included a nurse's veil in the clothing for her to wear. This covered her hair and gave her a sense of identity - and she appreciated that someone had been thoughtful enough to do it. they didn't show this in the movie.

[Cherie]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1352852181' post='2509513']
Maximillion,

Thank you for your sharing; it couldn't have been easy.... either at the time, or even to share with us.

Having said what I did, I also want to share this; every year we get people who try their vocations in my Secular order. Every one of them comes with the best of good will and eagerness... and a certain percentage will give the life a try (with full intention of going all the way....) and find that God wants something different. I know I always do everything in my power to help those who rrealize that God is not calling them to be with us to have a plan for what God wants next... what they learned, what they need that we didn't offer... what they don't need that we do require. That is just good formation work...

I think communities today FOR THE MOST PART are much better about helping people make the transition in and out. And I think the world and our families and friends are more open to people who realize God wants something different.

I have written as PMs to some details of my own decision, and I don't want to discuss the whole thing on line. BUT I will say this; I think the story of St. Francis (especially as described in the beautiful book [i]The Perfect Joy of St. Francis[/i]) gave me the inspiration to really evaluate what God did -- and did not -- want from and for me. I think I had pre-determined that the ONLY way I could see living my life out for Him was as a consecrated religious... and I wanted a very traditional community. And found one. And loved many things about it. But I realized the longer I stayed that the structure was not a good fit for me. My body was getting tenser and tenser. I was more and more unsure about the style of the community... even though I had NOT been surprised by what I found--it was exactly what I had expected. What was a surprise for ME was that I couldn't live that lifestyle. It was not a good fit for me... and no matter how hard I tried, it was less and less do-able all the time.

That is probably why the retelling of the story of St. Francis volunteering to go off to war in the wake of a dream.... a dream in which he saw armor and swords and all manner of soldierly paraphenalia... and a young girl telling him that these were for him and his followers... of COURSE he ran off to join the army! Of course he believed tht God was telling him to join the military campaign that was being organized! The problem was, it wasn't what God wanted from him. And so a few days later, when the same young girl from the dream re-surfaced in his dream and asked, "Which is better... to follow the servant or the master?" Francis responde, 'The Master'... She then said, "you have misunderstood the dream; go back." Even though he knew he would face contempt and ridicule, Francis returned to Assisi... because he knew he had not NOT heard God's call... he had misunderstood. And he needed to go where God was leading him.

As I prayed over that story, I too realized that I had misunderstood what God wanted from me. It wasn't that I hadn't HEARD him; I had misunderstood what He wanted. And when both my superiors and I prayed about it, we realized that that was exactly going on. I had to return and pick up where I had left off... recapture what God really did want from me. Was it easy? No. Would I go back... probably not because now I udnerstand the whys.... and what God actually had in mind... and it is better. Not easy, but better.

So.... I will say to all of you who feel God calling, don't be afraid to respond in love. Listen carefully, and be sure you are listening to Him, not just to your own desires and hopes. But trust that The One who is pure love and wisdom Knows what is best and that it will work out in the end.

My 2 cents.
[/quote]

Thank you for sharing! I see a bit of my own story in what you describe.

I firmly believe God wanted me to be in the convent for the time that I was, however, despite my belief that God never gave me a religious vocation in the first place...it shaped me into the woman I am. I entered immediately after high school, and I was so impressionable and easily influenced. I truly think that, despite my perceived "firmness" in my Faith, I would have lost my soul if I had gone to college first. I know myself. It would have happened. I praise God for having seen fit to prevent me from losing my Faith; why me? Why not one of my siblings or parents instead (all of whom are no longer practicing Catholics, or practicing anything)? It's very humbling.

Sometimes I wonder: five years? That's unusually long for someone who was never really sure. But if I hadn't left at exactly the moment I did, I never would have met my husband. And all that time I was there, God was shaping and forming me; those difficulties and dysfunction I experienced there helped me become a stronger, more prudent, more wise person, up to the second Sister left me at the hotel where I met up with my mother.

I can't speak for other people who have been in a similar situation, but I know that at least for me, I really do believe God wanted me there even though He didn't want me to be a religious. God's ways are mysterious, and maybe it all happened that way because I didn't respond well enough to Him at some point in time during my discernment, so He had to pull a "drastic measure" in order for me to learn what I needed to...but all I know is that I'm grateful for the experiences in the convent (despite many of them being painful) and I am now living safe in the harbor of His Will for me.

[MarieLynn]

When I left my community, I left dressed in some secular clothes that the order had found for me, a few personal possessions, and my "nun shoes".

My parents had to repay the community the money for my airfare home.

I 'disappeared' after Mass, while the community was at breakfast, and after changing out of my Habit went down to the Visitors Parlour where I was given a light breakfast. I was ushered out a side door, given a warning about 'throwing away my vocation' and "I would never be "called" again", and was driven to the Airport by the gardener/handyman.

It is very different now, I realise, but back then it was soul destroying.!!

[OnlySunshine]

[quote name='MarieLynn' timestamp='1352925534' post='2509987']
When I left my community, I left dressed in some secular clothes that the order had found for me, a few personal possessions, and my "nun shoes".

My parents had to repay the community the money for my airfare home.

I 'disappeared' after Mass, while the community was at breakfast, and after changing out of my Habit went down to the Visitors Parlour where I was given a light breakfast. I was ushered out a side door, given a warning about 'throwing away my vocation' and "I would never be "called" again", and was driven to the Airport by the gardener/handyman.

It is very different now, I realise, but back then it was soul destroying.!!
[/quote]

I cannot understand why a community would say that. I think they did more harm than good. If a person truly did not feel called to religious life and felt "stuck" for fear of "throwing away her vocation," she would be miserable. God gave us free will and we all need to respect that and be merciful. I'm sorry to hear that any woman was told they were "never going to be called again." That's tantamount to saying, "Well, you messed it all up. God will never love you again because you didn't remain a nun."

Edited November 14, 2012 by MaterMisericordiae

[AnneLine]

Mater, I think this WAS the custom up until fairly recently... and still exists in places. The rationale seems to be that if the sisters (especially the other novices and postulants) sees someone leave, it might unsettle them in their own vocations. That is also the rationale behind not letting the others know you are leaving/being asked to leave... not saying goodbye.... and not encouraging those who have left to stay in contact with the community. I don't agree with it, but it is the rationalle.

More often now, the sister will be given a chance to say goodbye, and often they are allowed to stay in contact with the other sisters. I think we have all realized that we are mature enough to know God does different things with different people. I sure hope so....

When I left (and this was in the mid 1980s) I was NOT allowed to say anything to any of the sisters, although I requested, and was granted, an opportunity to speak with the Provincial about my decision. She was very kind, and we processed what had made me come to this decision... and she agreed with the rationale. She also permitted me to take a few items that seemed appropriate for me to take into my new life, and I was grateful to her to have those things (and I still have them.). She indicated it would probably be a few days, and I said I had no problem with that, and agreed to her condition that I not say anything to anyone.

So, I was very surprised when, about an hour later, I was pulled even out of the morning's classes (left my binder and pen open on the classroom desk when I was called out of the room, as a matter of fact...) I was floored when they told me that I would be leaving righw away. I guess the superiors were concerned I might say something if they left me in the 'general population,' so I was told to call my mother that I would be returning that day and must be met, and then that I was to stay in our cell and pack.

They brought me meals... they were nice, but it was pretty clear I was no longer considered 'one of them'. When my stuff was packed and it was time for me to change into my lay people's clothes, I had a bit of a flashback to [i]The Nun's Story,[/i] because they had me go to a guest room in the laypeople's area, where they had set up my suitcase with my lay clothes, an ironing board and iron (so I could iron my lay clothes), and told to wait until they came for me and be prepared to be whisked out to a waiting car.

It was confession day, and I would have loved to have gone, but it was not offered. I could see the others heading off to go... and it was pretty lonely just waiting. I prayed for them, and I wish I could have told them how peaceful I was... and how much I realized being with them had been part of God's providence for me.... The sisters who took me to the airport were kind, but there was obviously a bit of a distance. And I got on the plane and returned home to a very astonished mother.... It had been quite a day.

One other thought... about 3 weeks earlier, one of the novices in the class ahead of me had left. We were not told until she had left, and then we were simply told by the postulant mistress that she had some news for us that would possibly be difficult for us, and that it was something we would hear from time to time as we lived in the community. She then said that the sisters and Sr. P had discerned that she did not have a vocation, and that she had returned to her home. And that there was to be NO discussion of it in the community. And that if we had a concern, we should talk it over with the mistress. She also told us that Sister was very much at peace, and knew this was God's will for her. I remember thinking at the time, 'Respectfully, Sister, I sincerely doubt that it was G[i]od's [/i]will or that she was that peaceful...," but of course I didn't say that. However, I have pondered imy reaction since my leaveing, because I know that they said roughly the same thing about me.... and that it was 100% true.... So.... I no longer judge what was said regarding Sister P. Sometimes... I guess it really is like that.

I've worked with dozens of people who have left communities in recent years. I think the vast majority have a great relief becaues they realize it just wasn't right for them. But for some, it is very tough.... and for many the adjustbment back in the world is really tough. Be there for your friends who come out, but let them make the moves..... because they may not be ready to talk for quite a while... because they may not know why they left. But make it clear you love them, are there to help, and that you won't pry. They will be grateful even if they don't take you up on the offer of help.....

Edited November 14, 2012 by AnneLine

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='MarieLynn' timestamp='1352925534' post='2509987']
When I left my community, I left dressed in some secular clothes that the order had found for me, a few personal possessions, and my "nun shoes".

My parents had to repay the community the money for my airfare home.

I 'disappeared' after Mass, while the community was at breakfast, and after changing out of my Habit went down to the Visitors Parlour where I was given a light breakfast. I was ushered out a side door, given a warning about 'throwing away my vocation' and "I would never be "called" again", and was driven to the Airport by the gardener/handyman.

It is very different now, I realise, but back then it was soul destroying.!!
[/quote]

I went clothes shopping with a teen who I had tutored to pass her english exams. I had no secular clothes (the community had taken them and gotten rid of all of it).

In my circumstance, I let the laity in the community know that I was leaving, and they threw a going-away party. I even attended Mass the day I was leaving in lay clothes (that was awkward). In a friend's case, she was a novice and basically just left (without saying bye to anyone). In fact -- they did not do her immigration paperwork, and she had to pay a fine to exit the country; a fine that a stranger paid because she did not have the money (nor was she given the money by the community). She felt quite hurt at how her leaving was handled.

Since leaving, I really haven't been contacted by the community. A letter that I wrote to the community went unacknowledged.

Soul-destroying is a good term to describe what my experience was like (and potentially vocation-destroying as well). But again -- this is now part of me, and has made me stronger for it.

Edited November 14, 2012 by cmariadiaz

[AnneLine]

Lost my internet for a few mins, so wasn't able to fix typos. Sorry!

MarieLynn and CMaria, I am so sorry it was such a hard transition for you. I don't think it should have had to have been. But I think sometimes in God's providence it is... and He knows what he is doing. But it is very much a school of hard knocks...

If it would help to talk or correspond a bit, you know how to PM me.... .and I would hold anything in confidence...even that you had contacted me..... same with all the rest of you.

I hope we haven't scared anyone from discerning by this discussion.... one of the big strengths of PM I think is that the tough questions get asked and answered. No one need to feel that they have no where to turn when they leave. I was blessed to have known one of my professors had been in religious life, and that I could reach out to him..... having a chance to process this with another 'veteran' is worth its weight in gold, in my experience.

I will hold you both in my heart and in my prayer in a special place today... along with all the rest of you who have left and may still carry some hurt in your heart......

[cmaD2006]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1352930766' post='2510038']
Lost my internet for a few mins, so wasn't able to fix typos. Sorry!

MarieLynn and CMaria, I am so sorry it was such a hard transition for you. I don't think it should have had to have been. But I think sometimes in God's providence it is... and He knows what he is doing. But it is very much a school of hard knocks...

If it would help to talk or correspond a bit, you know how to PM me.... .and I would hold anything in confidence...even that you had contacted me..... same with all the rest of you.

I hope we haven't scared anyone from discerning by this discussion.... one of the big strengths of PM I think is that the tough questions get asked and answered. No one need to feel that they have no where to turn when they leave. I was blessed to have known one of my professors had been in religious life, and that I could reach out to him..... having a chance to process this with another 'veteran' is worth its weight in gold, in my experience.

I will hold you both in my heart and in my prayer in a special place today... along with all the rest of you who have left and may still carry some hurt in your heart......
[/quote]

AnneLine -- thanks for the offer. I've processed it a lot, and I've come to some clear conclusions about the community. Not every community is healthy.

I hesitated posting because my experience is on one end of the extremes.

To the original poster I still say that these experiences can't really say what will happen. Basically you have to take a risk and enter. If I hadn't entered the 1st community, I wouldn't have had a good experience to balance the bad. And shoot -- I wouldn't have had a loving group of sisters to hold me while I started processing the 2nd experience (and to help confirm what I couldn't see at the time -- that the 2nd community was bad).

[Cherie]

[quote name='AnneLine' timestamp='1352927646' post='2509998']
Mater, I think this WAS the custom up until fairly recently... and still exists in places. The rationale seems to be that if the sisters (especially the other novices and postulants) sees someone leave, it might unsettle them in their own vocations. That is also the rationale behind not letting the others know you are leaving/being asked to leave... not saying goodbye.... and not encouraging those who have left to stay in contact with the community. I don't agree with it, but it is the rationalle.
[/quote]

Yes, it is still done that way by some communities. I was not allowed to say goodbye to anyone or even let them know I was leaving, nor were they allowed to see me leave. This was in 2008. It was unfortunate, but that's the way they decided to do it.

The Sister who entered the same day as me left a few months before I did; she was simply gone one morning. We had been close, having gone through all we had together, and it was horrible not having been able to say goodbye or even having any inkling she was thinking of leaving. But it worked out for the best, because her leaving is what finally gave me the courage to confront my lack of a vocation and finally make the hardest decision I've ever made, which was to leave.