hermit Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Got into it today with a co worker about abortion, it quickly wound around to "more children are killed by war than abortion" to which I responded " back the boat up and check your numbers"... I know somewhere I read, that more innocent lives have been lost to abortion than all the wars we have fought... Can anybody shoot me to a link that will back this up?... Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It would be hard to accurately quantify the total numbers of either, but the staggering rate of abortions worldwide over the last few decades makes me think that you are probably correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 (edited) Over fifty million abortions since Roe vs. Wade in America alone. That doesn't include worldwide abortions. Here's the kicker: Fifty million lives were lost in World War II. So just as many infants have died because of abortion than World War II, but that's the U.S. alone and that only goes back to Roe vs. Wade. The China area would be particularly staggering in numbers, especially if you went further back then when Roe vs. Wade was passed. Edited November 13, 2012 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatitude Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 I am not sure that there is any way to find this out. To begin with, 'all the wars we have ever fought' span millennia, far predating the time when abortion was widely accessible. Also, what do you count as a war-related death? Most stats include only people killed through the direct effects of war - soldiers who were killed in the fighting, civilians who were murdered in bombings, etc. What about people who die of disease because their access to clean water has been disrupted? People who commit suicide because they believe they have lost their whole family? Displaced persons who die after peace has technically been declared because of a shortage of food and medicine to the refugee camps? All this happens. In any case, I don't think the numbers of each should be the focus of a discussion on ethics. If more children are killed in war than abortion, how would that make abortion any less bad? We should avoid letting people set up this weird false dichotomy, as though you can only ever be an anti-war or anti-abortion, but not both at the same time. To me they are both part of a wider pro-life culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 [quote name='Nihil Obstat' timestamp='1352846760' post='2509440'] It would be hard to accurately quantify the total numbers of either, but the staggering rate of abortions worldwide over the last few decades makes me think that you are probably correct. [/quote] I think we are correct, but just cant prove it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 [quote name='hermit' timestamp='1352848725' post='2509462'] I think we are correct, but just cant prove it... [/quote] Unfortunately it is not really possible to find either an accurate number of war deaths, which IMO should include civilian deaths, as well as an accurate number for worldwide abortions. I am assuming we have to compare the two across the same timeline, which is obviously going to be somewhat arbitrary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 [quote name='FuturePriest387' timestamp='1352847079' post='2509445'] Over fifty million abortions since Roe vs. Wade in America alone. That doesn't include worldwide abortions. Here's the kicker: Fifty million lives were lost in World War II. So just as many infants have died because of abortion than World War II, but that's the U.S. alone and that only goes back to Roe vs. Wade. The China area would be particularly staggering in numbers, especially if you went further back then when Roe vs. Wade was passed. [/quote] Add the numbers performed in China and it could be staggering... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 13, 2012 Author Share Posted November 13, 2012 [quote name='beatitude' timestamp='1352847084' post='2509446'] I am not sure that there is any way to find this out. To begin with, 'all the wars we have ever fought' span millennia, far predating the time when abortion was widely accessible. Also, what do you count as a war-related death? Most stats include only people killed through the direct effects of war - soldiers who were killed in the fighting, civilians who were murdered in bombings, etc. What about people who die of disease because their access to clean water has been disrupted? People who commit suicide because they believe they have lost their whole family? Displaced persons who die after peace has technically been declared because of a shortage of food and medicine to the refugee camps? All this happens. In any case, I don't think the numbers of each should be the focus of a discussion on ethics. If more children are killed in war than abortion, how would that make abortion any less bad? We should avoid letting people set up this weird false dichotomy, as though you can only ever be an anti-war or anti-abortion, but not both at the same time. To me they are both part of a wider pro-life culture. [/quote] You too are correct, war and abortion have been going on forever, and yes war kills far beyond the bullit, so how could you ever calculate this, once again I'm in between a rock and a hard spot, both have no good effect on humanity they both kill, commandant No.6... Therefore what ever reason on either side there is something wrong and how do you compare apples to oranges... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 Not all wars are evil in nature. There is such thing as a just war. That being said, remember world population in 1830 was estimated at 1 billion. In 200 years it has risen to about 7 billion. The number of deaths in the past 200 years have also grown exponentially as there are more people to die. All those vast wars five thousand years ago did not have nearly as many people involved as WWII for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I think it would be quite easy to say that in the past 50 years more people have died from abortion than war, but to say in the past 50,000 years would be impossible as we don't have any sort of stats on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1352852046' post='2509507'] Not all wars are evil in nature. There is such thing as a just war. That being said, remember world population in 1830 was estimated at 1 billion. In 200 years it has risen to about 7 billion. The number of deaths in the past 200 years have also grown exponentially as there are more people to die. All those vast wars five thousand years ago did not have nearly as many people involved as WWII for instance. [/quote] History has accelerated at a bounding force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hermit Posted November 14, 2012 Author Share Posted November 14, 2012 [quote name='Slappo' timestamp='1352852114' post='2509510'] I think it would be quite easy to say that in the past 50 years more people have died from abortion than war, but to say in the past 50,000 years would be impossible as we don't have any sort of stats on that. [/quote] Your spot on...Which means this is a non arguement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaPetiteSoeur Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 I don't really think one can adequately compare abortion and war. There have been literally thousands of wars throughout the long history of the world. While it may be easy to compare abortion to war (as they are both evils), I don't think we can really compare them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirklawd Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 All good answers. If the comparison was argued to me I woul ask this person if it mattered. Only if abortions cause more deaths than WAR - that's when we should think twice about it? 50 million deaths isn't enough? Ask them how many dead does it take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagle_eye222001 Posted November 14, 2012 Share Posted November 14, 2012 War and abortion are different level moral issues. Abortion is intrinsically evil War may be evil or justified. ____________________________ The only interesting comparison may be the deaths in unjustified wars versus abortions......but even then its an apples and oranges comparison and then you have to spend time figuring out which wars were justified..... If this discussion was over voting .... basically whether to stop wars first or abortions........I would just point out the US kills 1 million innocent unborn babies per year intentionally. Pretty sure America's police actions are not causing 1 million children deaths [b]intentionally[/b]. Therefore abortion is the prime issue to deal with first and to be more worried about war over abortion is being inconsistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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