Cardinal Mahony Relieved Of Public Duties By Archbishop Gomez

[Maggyie]

We are talking about things that happened a very long time ago.

 

Not so long ago if the people who covered up are still alive. And as demonstrated by the Bishop Finn "incident" it definitely still happens.

[PadrePioOfPietrelcino]

People who leave the church over the abuse crisis were hardly your solid faithful Catholic churchgoer.

This is not very charitable, and a very harsh view of those hurt by abuse. I unfortunately have met several people who have shared their abuse stories with me. None of them were still in the Church, most were very faithful. We have to remember that for many of these Priest who did these things they had to be around people, usually it is those of us who are faithful who are around. One person I know was abused while discerning the priesthood. The thing about the stories shad with me that were in common is that for many of them leaving the Church was almost as bad as the abuse for them, but every time they were around the Church the pain of the abuse was relived. Many expressed a desire to heal and one day be able to come back to the Church. It is the honest airing of "our" laundry that will help bring the issue fully forward, to be be finally dealt with and allow healing to begin for all parties involved. I think of times when I have lied by omission trying to hide something, those things eat away at us so much. In. Ugh the same way the Church trying to hide things will eat away at her too.

[Nihil Obstat]

The open letter that Mahony released earlier today was... unnecessary. It certainly does not help him look any better to anybody.

[eagle_eye222001]

This is not very charitable, and a very harsh view of those hurt by abuse. I unfortunately have met several people who have shared their abuse stories with me. None of them were still in the Church, most were very faithful. We have to remember that for many of these Priest who did these things they had to be around people, usually it is those of us who are faithful who are around. One person I know was abused while discerning the priesthood. The thing about the stories shad with me that were in common is that for many of them leaving the Church was almost as bad as the abuse for them, but every time they were around the Church the pain of the abuse was relived. Many expressed a desire to heal and one day be able to come back to the Church. It is the honest airing of "our" laundry that will help bring the issue fully forward, to be be finally dealt with and allow healing to begin for all parties involved. I think of times when I have lied by omission trying to hide something, those things eat away at us so much. In. Ugh the same way the Church trying to hide things will eat away at her too.

 

 

My statement was general to the average person who was not directly victimized by the crisis.

 

 

I sadly, and heartily understand why a victim would cease going.

 

Edit: I should have been more clear.

Edited February 2, 2013 by eagle_eye222001

[Era Might]

The open letter that Mahony released earlier today was... unnecessary. It certainly does not help him look any better to anybody.

 

The language of prelates makes me want to vomit. All of them, including the Pope, are just dripping with institutionalism and useless words. There's no simple wisdom of a St. Paul in them. Even when they talk about "healing" and whatever, just uselessness. I'm reading Cardinal Mahoney's letter right now. He says:

 

 

This morning I sent this letter to Archbishop Jose H. Gomez giving the history and context of what we have been through since the mid-1980s.  There is nothing confidential in my letter.   I have been encouraged by others to publish it, so I am do so on my personal Blog.  I hope you find it useful.

 

In this letter I wish to outline briefly how the Archdiocese of Los Angeles and I responded to the evolving scandal of clergy sexual misconduct, especially involving minors.

 

Compare that with St. Paul's letters, the personal power of what he says, and the spiritual power. He talks as if he was what he said he was, a witness to the Resurrection, to a supernatural community. He speaks with power, as a man speaking to other men, deeply personal.

 

Maybe the pope will say something publicly about this situation (unlikely), but you can bet it will be a bunch of useless verbiage. Until the church stops trying to be a respectable institution, and becomes a prophetic witness, it will continue to be irrelevant, rearranging chairs on the titanic, talking about "charters" and "zero policy" and "protection" blah blah blah. That's what christianity has become, a place where respectable people talk respectably.

 

 

 

But when Cephas came to Antioch I opposed him to his face, because he stood condemned. For before certain men came from James, he ate with the Gentiles; but when they came he drew back and separated himself, fearing the circumcision party.  And with him the rest of the Jews acted insincerely, so that even Barnabas was carried away by their insincerity.  But when I saw that they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I said to Cephas before them all, "If you, though a Jew, live like a Gentile and not like a Jew, how can you compel the Gentiles to live like Jews?" We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners, yet who know that a man is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ, and not by works of the law, because by works of the law shall no one be justified. But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we ourselves were found to be sinners, is Christ then an agent of sin? Certainly not! But if I build up again those things which I tore down, then I prove myself a transgressor. For I through the law died to the law, that I might live to God. I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me; and the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God; for if justification were through the law, then Christ died to no purpose.

 

-Galatians 2:11-21

 

Part of the discussion in this thread is about people leaving the church. I don't even bother to leave the church, I just find the whole institution a useless waste of space, and the prelates people who have to find something to keep themselves busy, so they call themselves our leaders. The church can celebrate itself and keep marching on with its sham of an institution...and I'll go on with my life finding the face of Christ in the shadows and margins rather than in the seats of power where the "leaders" live. The institutional church is too irrelevant for me to leave.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Era Might

[Nihil Obstat]

Fr. Z. and some others are hoping that Mahony will be removed from the College of Cardinals. I do not know how likely such an event is, considering that it is nearly unprecedented in the history of the Church.

[Maggyie]

Fr. Z. and some others are hoping that Mahony will be removed from the College of Cardinals. I do not know how likely such an event is, considering that it is nearly unprecedented in the history of the Church.

 

If they didn't throw Cardinal Law out, they aren't going to throw out Cardinal Mahoney.

[Nihil Obstat]

If they didn't throw Cardinal Law out, they aren't going to throw out Cardinal Mahoney.

I guess we will see. If, God help us, we have another conclave before he turns 80, I would not want him participating.

What all of this controversy does is call into question whether Mahony is competent to hold any leadership role whatsoever. Even though he is retired, he still works with some Church departments which I cannot now recall.

Edited February 2, 2013 by Nihil Obstat

[Winchester]

Most organizations cover up the sexual assault of children, and predators seek out the proper hunting grounds. The government puts the pieces of shyte back on the street to make room for those kidnapped over drug possession or sales. This is a society wide problem. It's a shame there were so many gutless wonder priests. Cowards, the lot of them.

 

There is one way to deal with a predator.

People who leave the church over the abuse crisis were hardly your solid faithful Catholic churchgoer.  The abuse crisis was the extra brick that broke the camels back.

Might be true of some, but forgive me if I think it unlikely that you've examined every case to such a degree that you could make such a statement.

Sexual assault really messes people up. Some recover, some don't. If I had my druthers, we'd put bullets in the head of every worthless rapist on this planet, including the priests.

[Jesus_lol]

 If I had my druthers, we'd put bullets in the head of every worthless rapist on this planet, including the priests.

 

I think the best thing the catholic church could do wold be o very seriously(and competently) investigate these, and try and unearth other such cases, then if they find evidence that there was abuse, then deliver the offending priest/etc tied up and bruised on the front steps of the local police station, with a folder full of evidence against them.

 

And in order to find these abuses, they would have to really start looking.

[Lil Red]

Sexual assault really messes people up. Some recover, some don't. If I had my druthers, we'd put bullets in the head of every worthless rapist on this planet, including the priests.

 

you're being much too merciful to them.

[KnightofChrist]

He should have his red hat taken from him, his bishopric revoked, and be busted down to a simple monk or even layman.

[Anomaly]

He should have his red hat taken from him, his bishopric revoked, and be busted down to a simple monk or even layman.

That is the eclisiatical punishment. The problem is they protected them from and deflected legal and civil punishment which enabled forther crimes and harm. Those choices made immoral behavior tolerated snd effectively a part of the Church institution while claiming go be the infallible presence of moral instruction to humanity. I get they're human and nit perfect, but their faulings shouldn't be equivalent to the averages in other institutions thst lack the claimed Divine Participation and Graces.

[Socrates]

I think the best thing the catholic church could do wold be o very seriously(and competently) investigate these, and try and unearth other such cases, then if they find evidence that there was abuse, then deliver the offending priest/etc tied up and bruised on the front steps of the local police station, with a folder full of evidence against them.

 

And in order to find these abuses, they would have to really start looking.

 

While I'm for seriously cracking down on sexual abuse in the Church and getting tough on sexual offenders as much as anyone, I think it's also important to avoid a witch-hunt.

 

Since the publicizing of the sex abuse scandals, plenty of good, innocent priests have had their reputations and lives permanently ruined because they were falsely accused by gold-diggers or those with a vendetta against them - even though they were proven innocent in court.

 

Evidence of abuse should definitely not be suppressed or covered up where it exists, but neither should authorities strenuously strive to seek out and "unearth" evidence of sexual abuse by priests where none exists.

 

This would lead to a witch-hunt mentality in which priests are presumed guilty until proven innocent, and considered suspect simply on account of being priests.  Even if the law proves them innocent, their lives are still ruined.

 

More harm than good would be done in such a situation.

[Basilisa Marie]

But I think the problem right there is that people were too concerned about reputations and didn't fully cooperate with authorities.  We don't have the luxury of defending a good reputation anymore, until we establish a culture of being routinely open and cooperative with police authorities in any situation. We need to invest every allegation.  That's the only way Church leaders will be able to gain back any semblance of trust.  It seems to me like a slippery slope. 

Being falsely accused would be horrible, it'd make me feel like the lowest of the low.  But that's the price we have to pay for our past sins.  Didn't Jesus say blessed are the persecuted?  

[Apotheoun]

The problem wasn't homosexuality.  The problem was priests sexually abusing minors and your Church going to extraordinary lengths to protect those Priests.  Your evasive and morally chicken poo post is why so very many Catholics have left your Church.  

 

Someone like Mahony is not an awful, awful human being because he happened to get some Priests under his jurisdiction who were sexual predators.  He's such an awful, awful man because of how he responded to those acts.  .  

The problem was both homosexuality and that various officials in the hierarchy went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the abuse.

 

As far as Mahony being awful is concerned, I agree his actions were awful, and they reveal something about his inner character; and he should be prosecuted by the civil authorities for his crimes if the statute of limitations has not run out in connection with his involvement in the sex abuse cover up.

[Socrates]

But I think the problem right there is that people were too concerned about reputations and didn't fully cooperate with authorities.  We don't have the luxury of defending a good reputation anymore, until we establish a culture of being routinely open and cooperative with police authorities in any situation. We need to invest every allegation.  That's the only way Church leaders will be able to gain back any semblance of trust.  It seems to me like a slippery slope. 

Being falsely accused would be horrible, it'd make me feel like the lowest of the low.  But that's the price we have to pay for our past sins.  Didn't Jesus say blessed are the persecuted?  

 

 

I'm not saying Churchmen shouldn't cooperate with authorities or that serious allegations should not be investigated.

 

I'm simply cautioning that it should not turn into a witch-hunt, and that there is no reason to "really start looking" for sexual abuse in cases where there is no actual evidence or allegations.  A man shouldn't be treated as a suspected sex offender simply on account of being a priest.  I would regard anything beyond background checks required of teachers and such to be excessive.

 

The cases I mentioned have nothing to do with men paying for their past sins, but innocent men paying for the sins of others.  And it's not just individual priests that suffer, but entire parishes, and the Church as a whole.  

Yes, unjust persecution will happen in these circumstances, but we shouldn't unduly contribute to it.

[Apotheoun]

I agree . . . no witch-hunts.  I am for the proper prosecution of criminal activity.

[4588686]

The problem was both homosexuality and that various officials in the hierarchy went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the abuse.

 

As far as Mahony being awful is concerned, I agree his actions were awful, and they reveal something about his inner character; and he should be prosecuted by the civil authorities for his crimes if the statute of limitations has not run out in connection with his involvement in the sex abuse cover up.

 

 

So when a middle age female teacher jumps into be with a 14 year old male student the problem is heterosexuality?  

[Apotheoun]

So when a middle age female teacher jumps into be with a 14 year old male student the problem is heterosexuality?  

It is if the female teacher is actually a male in disguise.  

 

Whether you like it or not the fact remains that vast majority of the abuse cases (somewhere between 80 and 90 percent) were homosexual in nature.