Adorers Of The Sacred Heart Of Montmartre / Tyburn Nuns

[reminiscere]

Lil'Nun why don't you do yourself a favour and actually visit the community and even ask tough questions of the Nuns there if necessary before ruling Tyburn out? The devil often pulls whatever he can to discourage souls - from vocations, from conversions... 

 

I met wonderful religious when I visited the monastery last autumn. 

 

Hi all,

 

It is with sadness that I tell you I am no longer seriously considering Tyburn.

Thank you to everyone who answered here, pm'd me or emailed me.

 

I'm feeling a bit heavy-hearted and sad about this so if you could remember me a little in your prayers tonight I would be very grateful. I am now wondering if I have a vocation at all so am going to take a bit of time to lick my wounds and let the dust settle a bit.

 

I felt so attracted to Tyburn. Their Charism seemed to fit me so well, but from what I have heard today it sounds as if it would be totally wrong for me, and for a lot of people.

It's very sad to hear.

 

A slightly glum Lil' Nun

 

[Maggyie]

Indeed, it's disturbing to me that this community is being run down on phatmass when they have no way of "defending" themselves here

so to speak. It may very well be that there are problems, but these posts will remain on the internet forever. Over the years positive changes may be made, but new discerners googling the name of this monastery will happen upon this thread full of possibly out-of-date criticism and innuendo and perhaps be put off.

[BarbTherese]

I very much agree.  A particular person or even persons' concepts related to something experienced can widely differ - even when that experience was in content exactly the same.  In sharing experiences, it is very important I think that one underscores that it is only one's own particular concepts or experiences.

 Best, I agree, to contact a particular religious order and ask the 'hard questions' - including related to what one may have heard or read. (In charity without mentioning the actual names of sources of what one heard or read e.g. "I read on a Catholic discussion site ............" or "Someone told me................."). 

 

Nowadays, discerners are most blest indeed to be able to make quite extensive enquiries of a religious order, even visit and with opportunities to live-in, prior to making any sort of commitment.  In the main, this did not exist at all pre V2.  Most of us went into religious life pre V2 almost entirely 'blind' as it were, not really knowing what to expect in any way - and we went immediately into postulancy.  There might have been exceptions, It's just that I don't know of any - and personal experience is always without exception limited experience most often.

[Lil'Nun]

Thank you everyone for your responses. I am hoping that the problems I have heard about at Tyburn will resolve themselves, in time. 

However, I have to say I have had contact with several, different, unrelated people. 

I am not going to say who has contacted me, nor am I going to repeat what I have been told. I will say that I am sure there are some wonderful Sisters at Tyburn but I think that it would be a very good idea for me to take a serious look at some of the other enclosed Benedictine communities here in the UK. 

It may well be, that after doing this I still feel strongly attracted to Tyburn - time will tell.

Thanks for your concern

LN

[darcy15]

http://www.benedictinenuns.org.uk/

Holy Trinity Monastery have no age limit 😊

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

Indeed, it's disturbing to me that this community is being run down on phatmass when they have no way of "defending" themselves here

so to speak. It may very well be that there are problems, but these posts will remain on the internet forever. Over the years positive changes may be made, but new discerners googling the name of this monastery will happen upon this thread full of possibly out-of-date criticism and innuendo and perhaps be put off.

 

OK, then I'll clarify. I was in Tyburn from 2002 - 2007. While I was there, several perpetually professed sisters left under very distressing circumstances. Since I left, many more have left, under equally distressing circumstances.

 

I am not running down the Congregation, or the charism, both of which I think have a lot going for them. They are beautiful things, and well worth saving and reforming and fighting for. That's partly why I'm saying these things.  

 

I have always, always encouraged people to TRY their vocation - to visit a place and really give it a go. I was 'warned off' Tyburn as early as 2001, but decided that because God was genuinely calling me - and He was - that I should go there. I have never regretted it. But I'm also glad I'm not there any more.

 

I can also be very clear about what my objections were, so that there are no 'hints' or 'innuendos'.

 

I spent four very happy years, and one and a half very unhappy years, at Tyburn in London. I know the names of around 15 perpetually professed sisters who have left since 2000, all for various reasons. Many of these departures were, I know for a fact, connected with the current Superior General and her increasing mismanagement of the congregation. I know this because I am still in contact with some of these sisters, and some of them are in contact with other ex-sisters.

 

The most recent of these departures have been two sisters who left, separately, in the last year. Both were young professed; one was in fact in my novitiate when I was there and I was at her perpetual profession. I find this tragic.

 

However, the current Superior General is now at least 80 and can't live forever, although she seems to be arranging things so that she will be superior general until she dies! This is another reason for taking your call seriously and going to see the place for yourself - it won't always be under her rule.

 

I think people outside have to be very cautious of the glamour of 'new foundations and young vocations'. The new foundations have actually led to the considerable disruption and deterioration of religious life in Tyburn worldwide. The central charism of the Congregation is adoration of the Sacred Heart of Jesus in the exposed Blessed Sacrament. The Foundress - to whom I suggest you pray; she's a great friend in heaven ! - wanted this done perpetually, by the sisters, and for the sisters to allow the laity to join them in this adoration.

 

What's happening now is that the Mother House is the only place where Adoration is perpetual, and while the other communities have been told to 'build it up', this means using lay people to do some of the adoration in those communities. This is not, I believe, what the Foundress intended. Even at the Mother House, lay people now do the Adoration on at least three nights of the week because there aren't enough sisters. And the reason there aren't enough sisters is because of ... new foundations ...!

 

The new foundations are 'sold' to the world as signs that the congregation has more vocations than it knows what to do with. This is untrue. Most postulants and novices leave - which is normal - but in the last 10 years there has also been a dramatic loss of perpetually professed sisters who have asked to be dispensed, and by the deaths of others. Worldwide the Congregation was close to 100 when I left; it's now down around the high seventies. And yet the superior general wants 11 monasteries up and running. That's around 7 sisters per community, and you can't do much Adoration with that.

 

The reason sisters have been leaving is because of the Superior General's apparent vicelike grip on the role, which she has also substantially remoulded to suit her own personality and interests. She is a highly charismatic and forceful woman, and the General Chapter of the Congregation have been partly responsible for this also by not calling her to account and keeping her honest. So I'm not just blaming her!

 

But because of this, the burden of the daily running of the communities has fallen too heavily on too few perpetually professed, who have become overworked, exhausted, burnt out and demoralised. And then they just walk out, like I did (except I was temporary professed).

 

There were other things going on at the Mother House that disturbed me - for example, the large numbers of people coming in and out of the enclosure at the least pretext, notably visitors and journalists. The Superior General thinks the modern media will bring vocations; it doesn't. The vocations always came in response to a small ad in the Catholic Herald, and to the monthly Monastic Afternoons we used to hold. I think the website might help too, but that's all. Most of the media articles about us were inaccurate and painfully, wince-inducingly embarrassing.

 

But the Superior General wants to be a mover and shaker, so they also developed that utterly absurd 'Tyburn Lecture', where the sisters - enclosed nuns - had to welcome a whole lot of people into a reception afterwards, and where I had to serve drinks as a postulant. I must admit that this was the first point at which I began to wonder if I was actually in the right place.

 

So to sum up - the Adoration is being watered down, and the enclosure isn't what it used to be, and the General Chapter is totally under the thumb of the Superior General to the point of changing the Congregation's rules to allow her to remain in office pretty much indefinitely. And I was at the Mother House during the visitation from Rome, and it was a joke.

 

I am very happy to answer any questions from anyone on this topic.

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

 Best, I agree, to contact a particular religious order and ask the 'hard questions' - including related to what one may have heard or read. (In charity without mentioning the actual names of sources of what one heard or read e.g. "I read on a Catholic discussion site ............" or "Someone told me................."). 

 

ABSOLUTELY. And this is what I did when I entered Tyburn. I told them what I'd been told, and the response was for me to be cross-examined by the Superior General in an attempt to find out which ex-sisters I might have been in contact with.

 

As it turned out, none of them - I'd gotten the information about third-hand - but she was very, very interested for all the wrong reasons.

 

A healthy laugh and a frank admission of past problems would have been more reassuring, as well as some evidence that these problems were now behind the Congregation. But they weren't. In fact, I'd entered slap-bang in the middle of the problems, and into an atmosphere of secrets, long meetings behind closed doors, lawyers coming and going, plot and counter-plot against the Archdiocese of Westminster and CICLSAL ... and all this while I was trying to be an enclosed nun and an Adorer of the Sacred Heart of Jesus ...

 

It was not exactly fun, I can assure you!

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

I have a good friend who was at Tyburn a couple of decades ago and left under very distressing circumstances. Her perspective is obviously only presents one side of the story, but I do know through her that there have been numerous ex-sisters who have had serious issues with Tyburn and particularly with the Mother General that led to a Vatican (I think) investigation a number of years ago. That investigation cleared the Mother General, but was regarded by some as a whitewash and a cover up. This is all second-hand and rather vague knowledge on my part, but I do know of a very reputable priest (with extensive contacts with contemplative communities in Britain) warning people to avoid it. And when I asked about them at other British Benedictine monasteries (again, a number of years ago) I got the distinct impression that, while they did not want to speak ill of them, they were decidedly cautious about recommending that people go there.

 

The investigation never reported on anything, so it didn't 'clear' the Superior General. The Congregation simply kept the General Chapter open from 2002 to 2008 so that they wouldn't have to have an election of the Superior General while they were at war with Rome, and so she couldn't be dismissed from the office.

 

However, eventually through a lot of persistent pushing, CICLSAL approved some changes to the Congregation's Norms that would allow the current Superior General to be re-elected until she turned 75.

 

So the Superior General arranged for the next General Chapter to be held a month or so before her 75th birthday in 2008, a few months after I left, so that they could re-elect her, which they did. And then when the next election came around in 2012, the General Chapter voted to 'postpone' the election of the Superior General, because they could no longer re-elect her lawfully or postulate her as a candidate.

 

There is nothing in the Congregation's rule or norms or customs to allow such a thing, and this precipitated the departure of the young professed sister who had been in my novitiate. She told the Superior General that she was going against Rome and the Holy Father, and she left.

 

I was deeply ashamed of these actions both when I was there and after I left, and I pray that the Foundress Marie Adele Garnier will intercede for them in heaven and forgive them all for what they are doing to her Congregation.

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

And finally - because I have to do other things now! - I am also happy to consider that I and all the other sisters who left are totally in the wrong, and that the Superior General is acting directly according to God's orders in His mysterious Will and plan for salvation.

 

But when I look at the deterioration in perpetual Adoration, in lectio divina, in the horarium, and in the enclosure, I start to doubt that hypothesis a little.

 

Either way, it's a win-win situation, because I'm out here, and healthy and happy again, and sure of His mercy.

 

Some of my ex-sisters have married; others haven't, and are still working out where to go from here. I pray for them all, and support them in any way I can.

 

We'll know all the answers one day. In the meantime, I still encourage people to go and discern there. They desperately need a Teresa of Avila to come and put them back on track.

[BarbTherese]

ABSOLUTELY. And this is what I did when I entered Tyburn. I told them what I'd been told, and the response was for me to be cross-examined by the Superior General in an attempt to find out which ex-sisters I might have been in contact with.

 

As it turned out, none of them - I'd gotten the information about third-hand - but she was very, very interested for all the wrong reasons.

 

A healthy laugh and a frank admission of past problems would have been more reassuring, as well as some evidence that these problems were now behind the Congregation. But they weren't. In fact, I'd entered slap-bang in the middle of the problems, and into an atmosphere of secrets, long meetings behind closed doors, lawyers coming and going, plot and counter-plot against the Archdiocese of Westminster and CICLSAL ... and all this while I was trying to be an enclosed nun and an Adorer of the Sacred Heart of Jesus ...

 

It was not exactly fun, I can assure you!

 

While I cannot quite agree with your manner of posting, you have clarified some perplexities for me with your posts nonetheless.  And my initial information came from a diocesan priest, not ex sisters etc.  Apparently what I was told by Father was general knowledge insofar as his level in The Church was concerned.  I am in Australia incidentally.

 

 Adele Garnier (Mother Mary Peter) was a most unusual person.

 

Leaving a religious order (and one usually has good reasons) is never fun, for sure! :)

[BarbTherese]

I haven't been able to confirm what appears below on any Vatican website, which doesn't mean that it does not exist somewhere.  Mother Peter Garnier's spirituality was centred on the Blessed Eucharist and also Divine Providence.

 

 

http://www.dioceseofshrewsbury.org/news/latest-news/first-spiritual-biography-of-mystic-foundress-of-tyburn-nuns-launched-in-london

 

First spiritual biography of mystic foundress of Tyburn Nuns launched in London

The first spiritual biography of Mother Adele Garnier, the foundress of the Tyburn Nuns, has been launched in London, with the author hailing her new insights into Eucharistic theology as “very, very important” for the Church.

Don Gianmario Piga (pictured below), a Sardinian military chaplain and author of The Path of Mother Adele Garnier, said that the French nun presents an “original message” for Catholics today to “dwell” in the Eucharistic Heart of Jesus.

 

 

The biography has from the outset attracted considerable interest from the Vatican, which offered to publish the book free of charge, because many of Mother Adele’s reflections on the Eucharist correspond with the teachings of Pope Benedict XVI in such documents as Sacramentum Caritatis, his Apostolic Exhortation of 2007 on the Blessed Sacrament as the “source and summit of the Church’s life and mission”, as well as the writings of other esteemed modern theologians of the 20th century.

 

Click on this link to listen to the presentation of The Path of Mother Adele Garnier by Don Gianmario Piga in Tyburn Convent.

 

It is worth noting that in the actual lifetime of some of our saints, the religious orders they had founded fell under adverse circumstances and the foundress called into disrepute.  Certainly this happened with St Mary of The Cross MacKillop.  Other religious orders have needed and have undergone reform.  If a work is of The Holy Spirit, it will stand and nothing whatsoever will defeat it - nothing.

Edited June 24, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

If a work is of The Holy Spirit nothing whatsoever can or will defeat it - nothing whatsoever, and no matter how grim and dreadful any circumstances may appear to we finite minded creatures.  Certainly, satan is not going to sit by idly and let a great good be accomplished, though it has not even yet learnt that it cannot defeat the works of The Holy Spirit.

[Lil'Nun]

Hi again,

 

I just wanted to state that I heard things that worried me about Tyburn (via PM) from several different, unconnected, people. My current decision was not, and is not, down to information received from just one person - and not all the people who contacted me have posted on this thread.

That, of itself, worried me. That many different people seem to have heard about difficulties at a convent makes me realise that belief is widespread.

Someone at my Parish even mentioned as much to me on Sunday - and trust me, she is not even on the internet.

I just wanted to say this so that nobody feels their opinion was responsible for my decision - it was an accumulation of information.

I'm not going to post on this thread again but I have not totally ruled Tyburn out. I have just moved away from it for the time being and am looking elsewhere.

Thanks to you all for your messages and prayers.

 

LN

 

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

While I cannot quite agree with your manner of posting, you have clarified some perplexities for me with your posts nonetheless.  And my initial information came from a diocesan priest, not ex sisters etc.  Apparently what I was told by Father was general knowledge insofar as his level in The Church was concerned.  I am in Australia incidentally.

 

 Adele Garnier (Mother Mary Peter) was a most unusual person.

 

Leaving a religious order (and one usually has good reasons) is never fun, for sure! :)

 

Hi BarbaraTherese -

 

I can't do much about the manner of posting. The alternative is to hint at awful problems but refuse to divulge anything, which of course makes it much worse, and then people's imaginations run riot and before you know it, it's the Devils of Loudon all over again.

 

I'd rather just lay out what I know, in as clear and unemotional manner as I can manage.

 

I was warned off in 2001 by more than one diocesan priest as well, but in the UK, and warned specifically about the Superior General, being told that she was a 'control freak', and that it was a 'hothouse'. Sad but true, in both cases.

 

It's a shame because the Riverstone community of Tyburn appears to be very functional and happy. I went on a retreat there a couple of years ago and really enjoyed it - peaceful, restful and I could hear the sisters laughing in the enclosure from time to time, which really took me back.

 

The behaviour in choir at Riverstone was also completely different from what I'd learned to dread in the Mother House - much more relaxed and much happier, and when mistakes were made, there was no glaring!

 

Anyway, I am just glad people are discerning religious life, and there will be new vocations at Tyburn and someone will help to sort them out. (I have thought about going back at some point in the future, but on the whole I don't think they'd have me, not while the current Superior General is alive.)

[BarbTherese]

Interesting and shows how the same experience can be viewed differently.  I was in Riverstone for a while and my experience was not so positive - but wrote it off as just my experience, coupled with the fact that I came to the awareness that I did not have a vocation to religious life and admitted the truth to myself that I was really running away from a very busy life indeed back here in Bethany - and often a frustrating life.  This revelation for me was a sort of agony and ecstasy.  I love enclosed contemplative life and this is as an outsider looking in - actually living the life, I found I did not have a religious vocation and my experience became traumatic since I desperately wanted to have the vocation and strived desperately to find a reason to be running towards - I did find a genuine reason and that was because so often my efforts in Bethany seemed fruitless and only prayer could rescue many situations.  But my 'running towards' just would not work FOR ME - i.e. I was not called to religious life I had to admit and my personal problems within the community I could not surmount it seemed.  When I did return back here to Bethany I was absolutely confused for a while and miserable -  but eventually took up my way of life again and have never looked back and now over 20 years in the past.  I learnt to cope with the often fruitlessness SEEMINGLY of my efforts in many situations and found absolute and total rest, Peace and Joy, and rich haven in the Permissive Will of God and Divine Providence.

 

My info from the diocesan priest 'in the know' did perplex me until I read some of your posts.  Best not to identify religious orders concerned (for one only) I think since The Lord and His Grace with time can change the whole situation and one's own perspective at the time might have been skewed for some reason leading to conflict in the community for one, whether one can identify one's actual skewed perspective or not.  It does remain a potential and possibility.  In every single situation in life there can always be "X The Unknown Factor" that is in play.   It does take two to tango - i.e. me AND you if we are going to be involved in a negative type of 'tango' (tangle).  One can either get right into that negative and fruitless 'dance' - or one can change oneself.  Because I can indeed change myself, I cannot change others nor have the right unless they ask me to help them change identifying their own problems in the situation.  Of great interest to me from experience is that if I work to change myself, it does change the actual situation that was creating conflict in the first place.  If one refuses change, then one either has to stay in the negative situation and dance - or get out of the whole situation, abandon it.

 

Certainly the focus of the Tyburn Order of nuns is vitally important in the life of The Church and that is perpetual adoration (BOTH before the Blessed Eucharist exposed - or not before Him exposed, yet forever present and closer to us than our own selfhood) and also Divine Providence continually present in our lives as The Lord's Directing Hand, whether one is aware or not.  I took much with me from Riverstone and later came to understand that I needed the entirely negative experience to continue in Bethany.  Negative that is to my understanding at that time.  Hindsight is a great gift indeed - it can also be a tremendous burden if one tries to apply the lights present with hindsight to a situation in the past when those lights were not present.

 

God bless..........Barb

[BarbTherese]

I wish I could remember the saint's name, but can't.  She founded a religious order and later was demoted from leadership completely eventually and the community were quite 'skewed' as it were.  She continued in her Order as a simple nun in community doing the most ordinary of things as a humble and simple religious and for quite a number of years until her death.  Later, of course, she was canonized - but how dreadful her life must have been for many years and gigantic the change she effected in herself to go from foundress and leadership to a humble nun in the community.  I'll have to make a note to research and see if I can find her name and biography. 

Quite a few of our female saints for one have continued in a community that was a literal persecution for them.  And of course, Jesus Himself, was persecuted, derided, calumniated and finally cruelly executed and "No man is greater than His Master" - "Take up your cross and follow Me" and these sets the bar for us.  And I fall far far short of it, which cannot shift that bar down one iota of course.  I simply have to admit that I do indeed fall far short of it.

Edited June 25, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

 2.27pm here on Tues 25.6.13 and the day is running away from me, although a fair bit still accomplished thankfully!

 

With quick research only.    A case of a saint who appeared in her own lifetime to fail but not that saints I was seeking, which were saints who suffered in community life and due to their community. Hence I am a little or a lot of track. :lame:

 

 

 Once a saint is canonized and we hear all the wonderful things about them, it is easy to loose empathy and any attempt to put oneself in their shoes during their own lifetime and especially with those of our saints who suffered dreadfully in life - contrasted with outstanding sanctity heralded in the canonization process.  Sanctity is almost always hand in hand with much suffering in life - no Jesus without His Cross - and no life at all is going to pass without suffering of some kind or other to a larger or lesser degree.  Many life sufferings can go completely 'unheralded' and are interior sufferings hidden from view to all and sundry.

I believe that many will be the outstanding saints in Heaven who were never canonized - The Spirit blows where He will and as He May and for His own sound reasons.

 

St Bridget of Sweden http://www.catholic.org/saints/saint.php?saint_id=264

 

Quote:  "Although she had longed to become a nun, she never even saw the monastery in Vadstena. In fact, nothing she set out to do was ever realised. She never had the pope return to Rome permanently, she never managed to make peace between France and England, she never saw any nun in the habit that Christ had shown her, and she never returned to Sweden but died, worn out old lady far from home in July 1373. She can be called the Patroness of Failures. In this she was like her Lord. He was also classed as failure as He hung on the Cross. Birgitta was a successful failure as she was canonized in 1391."

 

 

[Ex Tyburn Junior]

Jeanne Jugan had the same experience.

[BarbTherese]

Jeanne Jugan had the same experience.

 

Thank you and how very remarkable.  Jeanne Jugan (foundress, Little Sisters of The Poor) chose Sr Mary of The Cross and had a consuming love of the poor.  Our Aussie St Mary of The Cross MacKillop also had a consuming love of the poor and like Jeanne experienced problems in her own community.

 

The story of Jeanne Jugan is worth noting:

 

 

For herself Jeanne chose the religious name Sister Mary of the Cross. She would live it in its fullness.

 

 

Quote:

"Jeanne is grafted into the cross

The work of the Little Sisters continued to spread, borne by the wind of the Spirit. So did Jeanne’s renown—until one day she was mysteriously cast aside by an ambitious priest who had taken over the direction of the young community.

Jeanne was replaced as superior and sent out begging on behalf of the poor. And then one day she was placed in retirement, relegated to the shadows. At the time of her death 27 years later, the young Little Sisters didn’t even know that she was the foundress.

Jeanne had often told them, “We are grafted into the cross and we must carry it joyfully unto death.” How she lived these words! What a radiant example of holiness she gave to generations of Little Sisters!"

Edited June 25, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[AnneLine]

I thought of both of those, but also of St. Rafaela, foundress of the Handmaids of the Sacred Heart of Jesus

 

http://www.acjusa.org/who_we_are/rafaela.php

 

and also Mother Theresa Maxis Duchemin of the Sisters, Servants of the Immaculate Heart of Mary

 

http://www.ihmimmaculata.org/history/founder.html

 

Interesting how often this seems to happen to foundresses.....

 

And we should pray for any Sisters or Superiors who are going through similar things even as we speak....