CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 I am pretty sure that we only become God in the sense that when we are in Heaven we become perfectly one with God our Creator. We do not ourselves become Gods. We do not become "Gods" but doesn't theosis imply that we become one with God?
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 (edited) It implies union with God through the process of co-operation with God's grace. So in the sense that "union with" is comparable to "becoming one with", then yes, but in that highly qualified sense only. What theosis decidedly does not imply is an ontological change of the soul such that a human creature such as ourselves literally becomes a god. Christ in the hypostatic union had dual natures, human and divine. We have one nature only: human. That nature does not change. Our nature can be perfected, through that union, through God's grace, but not changed. Edited April 15, 2013 by Nihil Obstat
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 It implies union with God through the process of co-operation with God's grace. So in the sense that "union with" is comparable to "becoming one with", then yes, but in that highly qualified sense only. What theosis decidedly does not imply is an ontological change of the soul such that a human creature such as ourselves literally becomes a god. Christ in the hypostatic union had dual natures, human and divine. We have one nature only: human. That nature does not change. Our nature can be perfected, through that union, through God's grace, but not changed. Would you say that as creations of God, we are an extension of him?
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Would you say that as creations of God, we are an extension of him? What do you mean by "extension"?
Jacen Marx Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 We do not become "Gods" but doesn't theosis imply that we become one with God? That is what I said. We become one with God.
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 That is what I said. We become one with God. Then are we not God through God? Then Mary is God.
KnightofChrist Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Then are we not God through God? Then Mary is God. Mary is not God.
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Then are we not God through God? Then Mary is God. How does a created being become uncreated? Do you see the problem here?
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 How does a created being become uncreated? Do you see the problem here? What does theosis imply?
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 What does theosis imply? Perfect union with God through co-operation with His grace.
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 Perfect union with God through co-operation with His grace. "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are "gods"'?John 10:34 Perfect union with God? Doesn't that imply that we "become God"? If not, why is this verse used in reference to Theosis?
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 How does a created being become uncreated? Do you see the problem here? How does an uncreated being have a son? You can't use such reasoning when it comes down to these sorts of things.
Apotheoun Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 I fully affirm the traditional doctrine of theosis. It does not mean Mary was divine. I also fully accept the doctrine of theosis, and that doctrine affirms that Mary is not divine by nature, but that - like all the saints - she has been divinized by her participation in the uncreated grace of God. For as St. Irenaeus wrote in his treatise Against Heresies: "It was for this end that the Word of God was made man, and He who was the Son of God became the Son of man, that man, having been taken into the Word, and receiving the adoption, might become the son of God."
Apotheoun Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Theosis is real in that man becomes a true participant in God's uncreated life and glory (and all of the other divine energies), and so it is not merely a virtual reality. To put it another way, man by grace becomes what God is by nature. The created human person remains in essence a creature, but by participation in God's deifying grace he becomes energetically divine.
Apotheoun Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 Click the link below to read through an archived post that contains small collection of texts about the doctrine of theosis: The Doctrine of Theosis
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 I was hoping you would get here soon. :proud: You are better at this than I am.
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 15, 2013 Author Posted April 15, 2013 I was hoping you would get here soon. :proud: You are better at this than I am. So Mary is God. We all agree now?
Nihil Obstat Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 So Mary is God. We all agree now? No. That is heretical.
Apotheoun Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 So Mary is God. We all agree now? Yes, in the sense that Mary - a mere human creature - has been divinized by the graces she received throughout her earthly life, and that she shall continue to grow in her closeness to God as she stretches (epektasis) infinitely into eternity, as is true of all the saints.
Apotheoun Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 No. That is heretical. It is only heretical if one means that Mary is divine by nature. Only the persons of the Holy Trinity are divine by nature (or essence).
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