Non-habited Communities.

[Spem in alium]

Well ma dear, I once felt that habit-less sisters were all ridiculous social workers, but I have come to change my view muchly. The change came especially through meeting the MGL sisters and some consecrated single women. They still wear some sort of habit, but I must say it is the state of life that matters. They are certainly not nuns per say, but they are still consecrated sisters doing work for God, and while habits are wonderful, sometimes people will not listen to religious just because they have habits on. They definitely have their place in the Church. I say God bless you!! :)

 

It is the state of life for sure. I don't want to discredit habits, because they are beautiful in so many ways, but ultimately I believe the most important thing for any sister to do is to live her life in faithfulness and love. I have seen that in sisters who are both habited and non-habited. I think it can be easy (definitely for me, in the past) to identify faithfulness more strongly with habited sisters, but I've since realised that it's all around if we look for it :)

 

I have heard Sisters who wear habits talk about why they think it's important to have that visible witness.  I have heard other Sisters whose communities have chosen not to wear a habit talk about why they have made that choice.

 

What I have found is that BOTH of them talk in terms of being open and available for ministry.  Some people talk about how they get approached on city buses (or whatever) and asked for prayer, or people pour out their life stories because they need to talk to SOMEONE and the habit identifies them as "safe."

 

That is a good and wonderful thing.

 

Others talk about how the habit can impose a division between them and the people they're trying to serve, that far from being welcoming it is offputting and creates a barrier they need to cross before being able to do ministry.  It got in the way of their mission, and the mission is the important thing, so the habit was set aside.

 

That also sounds like a good and wonderful thing.

 

But what really jumped out to me was that both groups were giving basically the same sort of explanations.

 

So either one is nuts and flat-out wrong, or (my vote) for some people the habit is an attraction and for some it is a barrier.  No one person, or one community, can be all things to all people.  So maybe God knew what he was doing in creating a lot of diversity, on this issue as on many others.  :)

 

That's a very interesting and wise post. Thank you :) 

 

I would want to know why, but good reasons can be had and habits do not define the faithfulness of the community. If it was a cloistered order, I'd really want to know their reasons, because I can't imagine what good reason they could possibly have.

 

I also have extremely mercenary reasons for liking habits. (I mean, there are better ones out there, and I'd maybe agree with them, but the one I'm saying now is extremely mercenary.) I really don't like buying clothes. Which is why I've sewn and patched my own (except for t-shirts and jeans and socks and stuff), but still. And I have trouble finding patterns I'm willing to use and then tailoring the neck lines on those so that I'm willing to wear them. So, a habit would be immensely practical to me. That's an awful reason, and there are better ones, but that's just one. Oh, and inside of a cloister (and I think I'm called to be cloistered), what good reason could you possibly have for not wearing a habit?? But that's just me.

 

Thank you :) I do agree with you that habits within a cloistered community makes sense, and I'd also want to know the reasons for why a cloistered community did not wear a habit. 

[elizabeth09]

I have to disagree.  One year, my mom and dad was at my high school action.  My mom had asked a lady if she has a daughter at the high school.  She was a sister.  The pin was the clue.  Anyone could wear a tiny pin.  To my mom credit, anyone could wear a tiny pin.

[the171]

Different charisms. Deal with it. Embrace it. Celebrate it.

[Sister Marie]

I have to disagree. One year, my mom and dad was at my high school action. My mom had asked a lady if she has a daughter at the high school. She was a sister. The pin was the clue. Anyone could wear a tiny pin. To my mom credit, anyone could wear a tiny pin.

I don't understand what this proves. Misunderstandings happen all the time. Once, while wearing my habit and veil with some other sisters on a trip we went through the drive through to buy lunch. The man surprisingly asked me, "are you allowed to drive?" He thought I was an Amish woman! We both laughed about it and moved on. People who don't know sisters ask me all the time if I am married or have children... So we have a conversation and no harm done!

[vee]

Mother Angelica has been mentioned and I am in the early pages of rereading her biography by Raymond Arroyo.  I read it several years ago  so dont remember if it covers the permissions she must have had to be on tv. 

 

[ACS67]

I too have changed my views on this matter.  I was a complete jerk last year on vocation station because I was so ridiculously overly conservative.  I'm so glad Sister Marie is back on VS because I believe I owe you an apology.  I was jerk to you.  I was also a jerk to nunsense (I'm so glad you are back in Wolverhampton! I always hoped you would return there after reading your story) and I apologize to you as well.  In any case, I would join a non-habited community in heartbeat if I felt called to one.  I don't feel called to any community at the moment, habited or not. 

 

As for Fr. Engo's article, he needs to be careful.  It's just my opinion (and gut feeling) here but I believe he is setting himself up (and his own community) for a big fall.  He's a little too sure of himself.  Again, just my opinion....

[Pax_et bonum]

I just wanted to make it clear that Fr. David Mary's opinions are not my own, but I do think it's a well written article for wearing a habit. My experience with religious who don't wear habits is largely what he described, but I disagree with him making blanket statements saying that all non-habited communities are like that. Also, I don't know much about Mother Angelica. I was just using his example to emphasize that there is a difference between doing good and being a consecrated religious.

Personally, I don't feel drawn to a community that doesn't wear a habit just as I don't feel drawn to a community that has charismatic worship or prays the office in Latin. There are different ways of living out religious life that are authentic. As with any community, you want to make sure the community is faithful to the magisterium and their Rule/constitutions and that it's a healthy community. Isn't there an old list somewhere of red flags to look for in a community?

[Antigonos]

I've written on this before.  As a nurse, I've worked in situations where I wore uniform, and in others [clinics, mostly], where I have not.  Uniform was easier.  Just fling it on, and away you go.  No choosing what to wear, and usually, no washing and ironing [hospital laundry does it].  Patients generally expect a nurse to be in uniform, too.  OTOH, in an outpatient setting, there have been times when being in civvies encouraged patients to be more forthcoming when discussing intimate matters; you become less a medical professional and more a sympathetic listener, or so you are perceived.  Some people find even a white jacket off-putting [children certainly do -- they remember getting injections from The White Coat at a surprisingly young age].

 

It would seem to me, however, that wearing a visible symbol of one's committment would act as a reminder of one's priorities, in the way that a Jewish man wears a scapular with the ritual fringes or a Mormon his special undergarments.  However, whenever I look at the kinds of habits Victorian and early 20th century nuns were wont to wear, I can completely understand why so many orders were glad to either modify or dispense with them.  Some versions of the headgear, especially, must have been really painful to wear.

[Sister Marie]

I too have changed my views on this matter.  I was a complete jerk last year on vocation station because I was so ridiculously overly conservative.  I'm so glad Sister Marie is back on VS because I believe I owe you an apology.  I was jerk to you.  I was also a jerk to nunsense (I'm so glad you are back in Wolverhampton! I always hoped you would return there after reading your story) and I apologize to you as well.  In any case, I would join a non-habited community in heartbeat if I felt called to one.  I don't feel called to any community at the moment, habited or not. 

 

As for Fr. Engo's article, he needs to be careful.  It's just my opinion (and gut feeling) here but I believe he is setting himself up (and his own community) for a big fall.  He's a little too sure of himself.  Again, just my opinion....

 

Dear ACS67,

 

I too apologize!  I don't remember our conversations completely but from what I can remember I was harsh and difficult with you and I truly am sorry for that.  I'm happy to see you here again, too! 

 

Our God is so good to give us so much diversity.  I think when it comes down to it, sisters, as individuals and communities, live their lives as responses to their relationship with God.  Each one is unique!  Just as we try as individuals, in very different circumstances, all the time to respond to God's love with our lives and our love.  

 

As far as spirituality is concerned (I'm not talking right and wrong morally), we can never really know what is happening in the heart of another person and we can't judge it.  I've also tried to persuade people to think the way I do about God and about religious life.  For me it was a lack of faith, in the vastness and the dynamic nature of God, that made me want to put Him into a box that limited who He was "allowed to be."  I know though that my mind can never contain the whole truth of who God is and I feel called now to reverence and stand in awe of the experiences of others and their responses to God because they reveal to me more of the God I keep trying to know and love.

 

This is how I am trying to look at differences between all of us... as reflections of the wonderfully unique relationship each of us has with our God.  Only together can we truly see Him, know Him, and love Him.        

[Yaatee]

Ah, yes, the old, old discussion(s) on VS.

 

Habits.

 

Pro and con, mainly con.

 

I am very happy to see a change of heart, and at least more openness on the subject.

 

Also, before I launch on this topic, I am very happy to see Nunsense back at Wolverhampton.  VERY happy!

 

Now.  Re staying faithful to the founders' charisms, many if not most of the 17th-19th c. founders meant to have their sisters dress as one of the people. Daughters of Charity. Grey Nuns. Religious of the Sacred Heart and prob all those other 19th c. French orders w/ the beautiful fluted caps (Bon Secours, Cenacle, Dgtrs Jesus and Mary).  BUT the sisters didn't change their habits as fashions changed and adapted a habit only remotely resembling that of the foundress (BVM's in those awful horseshoe and box things they used to wear, which did not resemble their foundress' simple fluted cap. These sisters adopted civvies and never looked back).

 

I do not think that Benedictine sisters/nuns have habits mentioned in their rule, as I don't think that Benedict mentioned it in his rule for monks, except possibly in a very general way.  He wrote his rule in the 5th century. So I don't think that the Bennies have compromised their charisms at all in this way.

 

I do think that there is an argument for 'witness' that the habits provide, in., in airports, etc.  There is also a valid argument that habits may erect barriers among the people whom the sisters are actually serving, amongst the poor, abused and under-served, for ex.

 

So there are good arguments on both sides.  For the Dominicans of St. Cecilia, there is their beautiful habit, which creates status and solidarity and authority in the classroom, important facts to consider.  That habit in a soup kitchen may not be such an advantage.

 

Regarding traditional habits, I have read a good deal of the literature published not long after the traditional habits were abandoned.  The habits were hot, unconfortable, and dirty and hard to maintain.  Dirty, bec they were often changed only once a week or so,  and in the case of the under-crinoline of the Daughters of Wisdom, one of the most beautiful habits (Se  McCarthy) only once a year.  The maintenance was a big problem. In 1957, I learned at Eden Hall, run by the Religious of the Sacred Heart (the RSCJ), that it required a lay sister TWO HOURS to flute one of the choir (teaching) nuns' caps. The nun wore the cap for one week.  Another teaching sister wrote that their convent spent all of each and every Saturday washing, starching and ironing their habits. She said that during that time they could have conducted remedial English classes for their underprivileged neighborhood.

 

Looking at sisters who continue to wear traditional habits, it occurs to me that they remain hot and probably difficult to maintain.  Some are indeed beautiful, it is true, and may attract those who seek the beauty and status of the habit, as I once did long ago. Many are wash and wear, cotton poly mixes, which are also hot, tho' no longer made of wool serge, as the old ones were.

 

I think that communities wearing modified habits may have the best of both worlds, tho' I suspect that many people don't recognize the sisters for who they are.  These habits often have several separate pieces: a skirt, blouse, sweater, jumper, and possibly a long tunic for formal church occasions. A  simple off-face veil.  All easy to clean and maintain.

 

Many cloistered communities also have modified habits or often no habit.  They are bound by simplicity and ease of maintenance, especially as they keep up their own houses, grow, put by (can freeze) their own food, maintain their own grounds. Some, as the Baltimore Carmel, wear a special cowl in church.  Many of these houses are small and ageing, without the staff or time to iron and starch wimples.

 

Some habited communities are attracting many new applicants, but others either do not appear to be doing so, or do not discose their numbers, entrances, professions, etc.,  on the web.  It is a well-known fact that the formerly large communities are imploding, but I think will remain in much smaller but vital communities, probably full of middle-aged women, judging by who is entering and professing there now.  This does not mean that these communities will disappear.  I think that they (Benedictines, Dominicans Franciscans, BVM's, Mercies) will always be around.

[DameAgnes]

This article is very apropos to the discussion as it respectfully looks at an order that has unhabited (Sisters of the Cenacle) and another that has modified its habit (Little Sisters of the Poor) and explains why it doesn't have to be "either/or". The issue can be "both/and".

 

Also, I know a community of Benedictine nuns (Clyde, Missouri) who are not "habited" per se (they wear dresses and skirts in black/white combos of their choices) who are wonderful community. I also know another community of Benedictines who are (imho) a little to into the new age stuff. So, it all really depends upon the community. The habit itself (and I like habits) are really a side issue.

 

Edited b/c I forgot the link! 

 

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2012/08/24/old-fashioned-sisters-newfangled-nuns-numbers-and-habits/

  

 

:hehe2:

Edited May 21, 2013 by DameAgnes

[beatitude]

I've written on this before.  As a nurse, I've worked in situations where I wore uniform, and in others [clinics, mostly], where I have not.  Uniform was easier.  Just fling it on, and away you go.  No choosing what to wear, and usually, no washing and ironing [hospital laundry does it].

 

It's worth noting that even sisters with no habit aren't likely to have all that much difficulty with choice over what to wear, as they still take a vow of poverty, and they don't have much in their wardrobe. ;) The non-habited sisters whom I know have a couple of long skirts in a dark colour, a couple of pairs of dark trousers, some plain blouses, and a pullover or something for when it's colder. There isn't really much to choose from there. They also keep their hair cut quite short, so they don't need to spend a lot of time brushing and styling.

 

I think it is these things that get non-habited sisters jeered at for being 'dowdy', something I have unfortunately seen a lot in more traditional Catholic circles, where the traditional habit is commended for its beauty and elegance. I was speaking about this with a Little Sister of Jesus (the wish of their foundress was that they dress as the people around them dress), and she was aware of it. She said it can be hurtful. But she also said that it is part of their charism to live as friends to the poorest and most marginalised people in society, and on the council housing estate in inner-city London, where she lives, there are plenty of people who look 'dowdy' because they can't afford nice things and they need to take what they can get from second-hand stores. She sees the insults that non-habited sisters get as a way of sharing in their lives more completely. Then for the first time it hit me how bitterly ironic it is that any Catholic would jeer at women who have made vows of poverty for not being elegant enough. :(

Edited May 22, 2013 by beatitude

[incarnatewordsister]

Then for the first time it hit me how bitterly ironic it is that any Catholic would jeer at women who have made vows of poverty for not being elegant enough. :(

 

I don't really post here. In fact. I haven't in a long time because there is usually a thread about Sisters not wearing habits and I find it hurtful because I would rather be judged on the content on my character.

 

With that said. A few years back I decided to not come back to the board because of hurtful comments of people who have actually never made vows and who have never lived in community, never wore a habit or have done so for a very short time. To be honest, I don't even remember the comments, but at the time I was in formation and I found them confusing and not at all helpful for my life, so I decided to step back. It was a good choice at the time. However, I have always prayed for everybody here.

 

 Anyways. I do have a habit. Our habit is beautiful but highly impractical for our life. I PERSONALLY  have mixed feelings. it is beautiful but flashy. People also have mixed reactions. There are those who stay away as if their life depends on it. There are those who want to convert me because they think that I need to be saved, then there are those who hand me money or want to pay for my monthly purchases at the pharmacy (rather embarrasing!) And then there is the fact that I can not keep it clean to save my life. I like it when people come and ask me for prayer. That is always good, though.

 

So, I wear a marroon skirt and a white blouse with my black veil. it is a sign of my commitment. It witnesses to poverty but it does not call attention to itself.  I have suffered the sneer of Sisters who wear the full habit because of what I wear and the sneer of not habited Sisters for what I wear. Some Sisters in full habit have actually asked me why I joined my community if I don't get to wear the habit everyday. 

 

I only wear my modified habit for very special occasions together with the rest of my Sisters. And it becomes an occasion of celebration and joy. The rest of the time we live our life without recognition but we do our ministry with the same joy and the same love.  I love my community and I would not change it even if I couldn't wear a habit at all. What matters is that God calls one to a partocular charim, to a particular community. I have found my home here.

[elizabeth09]

Different charisms. Deal with it. Embrace it. Celebrate it.

 

Why do we have to deal with it, embrace it and celebrate it?  

 

I don't understand what this proves. Misunderstandings happen all the time. Once, while wearing my habit and veil with some other sisters on a trip we went through the drive through to buy lunch. The man surprisingly asked me, "are you allowed to drive?" He thought I was an Amish woman! We both laughed about it and moved on. People who don't know sisters ask me all the time if I am married or have children... So we have a conversation and no harm done!

Yes, misunderstanding will happen.  But the one time that my mom mistake a sister for a mom is understood.  Anyone could wear a little pin.  I do not know how little the pin was, because I was volunteering at the time.  

 

I think that the young ladies that are joining today will more likely join a order with a habit.  Just to make it clear, I will not stand in the way of someone joining an order that does not wear the habit.

[the171]

Because diversity is beautiful. The Church is dynamic. Listen, I used to be like you (Sister Marie can attest to this as can most of the pham). But you have to look at the charism and the apostolate before you judge. (Even then you shouldn't)

[elizabeth09]

Sister Marie, forgot to ask you: Do you like wearing the habit or other clothes?

[EmilyAnn]

Why do we have to deal with it, embrace it and celebrate it?  

 

Because religious life is not one-size-fits-all. The diversity in charisms and spiritualities embraces and reflects the diversity of people and it is a good thing. 

[elizabeth09]

What happens before Vatian II with the habbits?

[Sister Marie]

Why do we have to deal with it, embrace it and celebrate it?  

 

Yes, misunderstanding will happen.  But the one time that my mom mistake a sister for a mom is understood.  Anyone could wear a little pin.  I do not know how little the pin was, because I was volunteering at the time.  

 

I think that the young ladies that are joining today will more likely join a order with a habit.  Just to make it clear, I will not stand in the way of someone joining an order that does not wear the habit.

 

I know your first comment wasn't addressed to me but I do have an answer for it.  We have to "deal with, embrace, and celebrate" different charisms because charisms are gifts of the Holy Spirit.  They are not man-made but are gifts given for the whole Church out of God's love for us and through the voice of the Holy Spirit.  I guess someone can reject that gift if they want to but I don't know why anyone would not want a gift of the Holy Spirit!

 

"Communion in the Church is not uniformity, but a gift of the Spirit, who is present in the variety of charisms and states of life. These will be all the more helpful to the Church and her mission the more their specific identity is respected. For every gift of the Spirit is granted in order to bear fruit for the Lord in the growth of fraternity and mission." Vita Consecrata, 4 (The word charism is repeated in Vita Consecrata 86 times!!!)

 

------------------------------------

 

I guess I still don't understand your point with the pin story.  I don't think that that proves that there is anything wrong with not wearing a habit.  I'm open to understanding but I think I need more of an explanation as to what you mean... maybe I'm misunderstanding part of the story.  The way I'm reading it is that because she wasn't visible immediately, it was an issue.  I wear a habit and sometimes I'm not visible immediately either.  It doesn't take away from my life.  I would definitely be open to trying to understand what you mean but I would need more of an explanation.

 

-------------------------------------

 

You are right that many young women now feel called to join communities that wear a full habit.  That's great.  It's the Holy Spirit, the charism that we are called to embrace and celebrate.  However, I don't think that's a good reason for the habit.  Imagine if the disciples were following Jesus because everyone else was... there probably wouldn't be a Church now if that were the case.  Habits are popular right now in certain Catholic circles.  There isn't anything wrong with that but for me it isn't a reason to be "pro-habit." 

 

In light of that I would add that I DO wear a habit.  I appreciate all the "pros" to wearing a habit.  On a higher level, it is a reminder of who I am as a religious.  It helps me to witness to poverty (as it is very simple!).  It lets people know who I am so that I can help them.  I also like it for the mundane reasons - I don't have to worry about my hair.  I know what I'm going to wear everyday and everything I own matches already! 

 

However, if I was living out my community's charism in a situation where the habit was NOT helpful to the living of that charism I would not hesitate to take it off.  It would be for me a decision to remain true to the charism of my community and my own identity as a religious woman.  My identity is the same regardless of the clothing I am wearing.  I know that some people see this as putting ministry above religious life but I don't see it that way at all.  As an apostolic religious, what I do is very much intertwined with who I am and it is an integral part of the charism of my community.  Apostolate, prayer, and community aren't three separate parts of my life but are one and the same.  Religious who consider themselves semi-active or monastic would most likely not share that point of view because it would not be in keeping with their charism - and that's a good thing!  Prayer in that situation would be the most important because that is the gift of the Holy Spirit in that religious institute. 

 

Before Vatican II many religious communities who were really founded to be apostolic communities were forced by culture and custom to keep a lot of monastic practices - practices that don't fit into the life of an apostolic religious.  It was impossible.  When Vatican II occurred, they were encouraged to go back to their original founder's vision of their life.  They realized sometimes that they weren't living the vision of their founder and that some of those practices were getting in the way of living the authentic gift of the Holy Spirit in their charisms. 

 

We aren't all meant to be the same.  Popularity ebbs and flows in the Church and has done so since the beginning.  Jesus Christ never changes.  He is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.  When I think about the mission of Jesus, the last thing I ask is, "That miracle was great and everything, but um, what was Jesus wearing?"  I hear this often in regards to religious women.  It doesn't make sense to me. 

 

Sorry this is so long! 

[the171]

There were many communities before VII that didn't wear a habit.