Carmelite Customs

[graciandelamadrededios]

There are a lot of published books about Carmel and the Reform of St. Teresa.  Also, you can ask the sisters whenever you visit them.  They might offer you extra books they have or loan you some books if they dont have anything extra.

 

Gracian

[Carla]

There are a lot of published books about Carmel and the Reform of St. Teresa.  Also, you can ask the sisters whenever you visit them.  They might offer you extra books they have or loan you some books if they dont have anything extra.

 

Gracian

 

Thank you,at the moment i'm, reading biography of St. Terese and 2 book about Carmel and their spirituality.Yes sister give me some great books and they are very helpful in any way possible.I need to learn much more about Carmel.But for now it is opened whole new world for my Faith and my vocation.

[Hemma]

Hi Gracian, Do you have any information about the Carmel monasteries in my home country (Germany/Austria)? Do you have any "recommendations"?

:anyone:

 

Thank you :-)

[graciandelamadrededios]

Hi Gracian, Do you have any information about the Carmel monasteries in my home country (Germany/Austria)? Do you have any "recommendations"?

:anyone:

 

Thank you :-)

 

 

 

Hello dear!

 

I have corresponded with some of the monasteries in Germany several years ago and there several wonderful Carmels in your country.  There are 3 monasteries of 1990 Carmels in Germany.  Please see the Carmels I am recommending below for both Germany and Austria.

 

1990 Carmels:

Wemding

DEUTSCHLAND
Kapuzinengraben, 21

 

Speyer

DEUTSCHLAND
Remlingstr. 83

 

Hauenstein

DEUTSCHLAND
Kapellenweg, 13

 

*****I wrote to Speyer and Hauenstein Carmels some years ago and they are very nice.

 

1991 Carmels:

 

Köln
DEUTSCHLAND
Vor den Siebenburgen 6

 

Witten
DEUTSCHLAND
Auf der Klippe 20
http://karmel-witten.de/en/history/the-monastery.html

 

Karmelitinnenkloster Himmelspforten 

Mainaustr. 40 
97082 Würzburg 

http://www.karmelitinnen-wuerzburg.de/bwo/dcms/sites/bistum/glauben/geistliches_leben/frauenorden/himmelspforten/index.html

 

 

The photo below is from: http://www.karmelitinnen-wuerzburg.de/bwo/dcms/sites/bistum/glauben/geistliches_leben/frauenorden/himmelspforten/index.html

 

 

 

 

The photo above is one of my favorites so far.  The habit is just lovely and they keep both day veil and the communion veil.  

 

I am not sure if all Carmels in Austria can trace their origin in Italian Carmels but I did notice some Carmels in Austria who maintains the Italian Discalced Carmelite Nuns custom of wearing a wooden cross outside their scapulars.

 

Here are the list of Carmels in Austria:

 

Bärnbach
ÖSTERREICH
Heiliger Berg 1

http://karmel-baernbach.graz-seckau.at/gottesdienst#.U6ZLVtIW3K0

 

Rankweil

ÖSTERREICH
Treietstrasse, 18

 

Innsbruck

ÖSTERREICH

 

Karmel St. Josef 

Mayerling 3
2534 Alland

 

The photo below is from Barnbach Carmel which shows the Nuns wearing wooden crosses outside of their scapulars.  I was told that there is another crucifix under the scapular which is pinned on top of the tunic - which is customary for majority of Discalced Carmelites.

 

 

 

**** Czech Carmels also wore the wooden crosses outside their Scapulars since they came from an Italian foundation headed by Mother Maria Electa.

[graciandelamadrededios]

Thank you,at the moment i'm, reading biography of St. Terese and 2 book about Carmel and their spirituality.Yes sister give me some great books and they are very helpful in any way possible.I need to learn much more about Carmel.But for now it is opened whole new world for my Faith and my vocation.

 

 

Hi Carla,

 

If you have any questions regarding Carmel, please feel free to ask the questions here.  We are more than happy to help you.

 

God Bless you!

 

Gracian

[graciandelamadrededios]

Front View of Spanish Habit of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns: Refer to the excess white material of the toque covering the shoulders.

 

 

 

 

Front View of French Habit of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns: Refer to the very little or no excess white material of the toque covering the shoulders 

 

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Back View of Spanish Habit of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns: excess white material of the toque trailing at the back of their shoulder

 

 

Back View of French Habit of the Discalced Carmelite Nuns: very little or no excess white material of the toque

 

 

 

 

 

 

[graciandelamadrededios]

Some of the Carmelite Monasteries who traces their foundation to Spanish - Mexican line have trimmed the white excess material of the toque.  For example, Littleton Carmel have trimmed them down but essentially, their habit is still very Spanish-Mexican.   

 

But some monasteries still maintained the original toque - just like the ones I posted above.  I am sure Chiqui will be able to provide us a list of American Carmels who keep the original Spanish style toque and those who modified them.

 

I think if was Chiqui who mentioned that it was hard for the nuns to keep the white excess material of the toque clean.

 

 

[Bride of the Lamb]

Hi, regarding the historic photo Gracian posted and the carmel at the former concentration camp: please note that this photo shows *not* the carmelite monastery of Auschwitz-Birkenau but a part of of the carmel of the Holy Blood in Dachau in Bavaria (some of the cells of the nuns to be accurate). This carmel has been founded in the sixties and it still exists at this very place. Also, the carmelite monastery in Auschwitz still exists, Pope Benedict visited the nuns some years ago. Following the quarrels at this place the nuns moved from the ground of the former concentration camp to a house outside the former camp but near the place. HTH.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Bride of the Lamb

[marigold]

Hi, regarding the historic photo Gracian posted and the carmel at the former concentration camp: please note that this photo shows *not* the carmelite monastery of Auschwitz-Birkenau but a part of of the carmel of the Holy Blood in Dachau in Bavaria (some of the cells of the nuns to be accurate). This carmel has been founded in the sixties and it still exists at this very place. Also, the carmelite monastery in Auschwitz still exists, Pope Benedict visited the nuns some years ago. Following the quarrels at this place the nuns moved from the ground of the former concentration camp to a house outside the former camp but near the place. HTH.

Hi and welcome! My flatmate is German so I have picked up a bit - enjoying your blog!

[Bride of the Lamb]

Hi and welcome! My flatmate is German so I have picked up a bit - enjoying your blog!

Thanks, that's nice of you to say (and welcome to my blog)  :saint2:

If anyone is interested in photos of the carmel mentioned I could post some of those. Some are also in this blogpost: http://brautdeslammes.blogspot.de/2012/02/warum-das-kreuz-nach-dachau-gehort.html

Edited June 25, 2014 by Bride of the Lamb

[graciandelamadrededios]

Hi, regarding the historic photo Gracian posted and the carmel at the former concentration camp: please note that this photo shows *not* the carmelite monastery of Auschwitz-Birkenau but a part of of the carmel of the Holy Blood in Dachau in Bavaria (some of the cells of the nuns to be accurate). This carmel has been founded in the sixties and it still exists at this very place. Also, the carmelite monastery in Auschwitz still exists, Pope Benedict visited the nuns some years ago. Following the quarrels at this place the nuns moved from the ground of the former concentration camp to a house outside the former camp but near the place. HTH.

 

I have a booklet about Dachau Carmel but I cant recall where I placed them.  Thanks for the reminder.

 

Gracian

[Chiquitunga]

I think if was Chiqui who mentioned that it was hard for the nuns to keep the white excess material of the toque clean.

 

Hi Gracian! that was VJAM :like: who's in a Spanish Carmel currently :pray:

[Chiquitunga]

Praised be Jesus Christ! Hello Gracian! I see you're online just now so thought I'd ask this question, although it may take some research. Do you know when Extern Sisters were first introduced to Discalced Carmelite monasteries? or even in general, when that vocation began/developed in cloistered nuns' monasteries? Thanks! God bless!

 

edit: of course this question is directed to anyone who might know :like:

Edited July 5, 2014 by Chiquitunga

[graciandelamadrededios]

I am not sure when exactly but the rule of saint clare stipulates that sisters can be sent outside to beg. Extern Sisters before Vat II were third order sisters. Now, choir and extern sisters are of equal footing, though externs have separate statutes as per Carmelite Monasteries.

[Chiquitunga]

Extern Sisters before Vat II were third order sisters. Now, choir and extern sisters are of equal footing, though externs have separate statutes as per Carmelite Monasteries.

 

Do you have any information on these separate statues for Discalced Carmelite Extern Sisters? Do you know around when they were published? Sorry, more research projects for us! :) I'm not discerning this myself, but it's something I wanted to understand.

 

Also, do you know in all Discalced Carmelite monasteries today, do the Externs not profess Solemn Vows since they are not strictly living under Papal Enclosure? Does it depend on the monastery if they do? I heard this once from someone, but that may be wrong.

[Chiquitunga]

another specific question to throw at you :proud: then before VII were there a unique Third Order OCD Extern Sister statues? 

[Chiquitunga]

okay, I just noticed a folder in the Indianapolis Carmel archives at the University of Notre Dame library for "Extern Sisters - Statues 1992" http://archives.nd.edu/findaids/ead/index/CRM008.HTM  I don't know if these archives are available for the general public to read though, like if one were to visit there. interesting to see the titles of their archives there though.

[graciandelamadrededios]

I would assume that each monastery can formulate a statues or regulation for their respective externs since some monasteries since technically they are Third Order Regular due to their exclaustrated status and that they are not oblige to recite the Divine Office. This was carried over after VatII except that they are now full members of the Second Order and follows some points of the same constitutions but with their own statutes to cover the aspect of their outside apostolate. I have not seen a document of OCD extern sisters befoelre and after VatII but this was mentioned by several prioresses. One American Prioress told me that she patterned their statutes for their Carmel to those of statutes produced by Philippine Carmels. Also, OSC has their pre vat 2 statutes online, https://archive.org/details/regulationsforus00poor. Regarding the vows, I have no idea if they profess solemn vows now.

[Chiquitunga]

Thanks Gracian! That is very interesting to learn about. I also just found this page which mentions them having statues from 2002, http://www.carmelites.org.nz/becoming-carmelite/externsisters/  

 

Do you know were Lay Sisters considered Third Order before VII as well? As we know, Lay Sisters for OCD nuns' monasteries went back to their very beginning at the first foundation of St. Teresa. These two vocations seem to be very similar except that Lay Sisters would not go out of the enclosure, while Externs can. Am I correct in that? But now the Lay Sister vocation for OCD nuns does not exist, while the Extern vocation does. 

 

It seems like if someone was an Extern in Carmel now, they might relate in a special way to the saints who were OCD Lay Sisters like Blessed Anne of St. Bartholomew or Blessed Mary of Jesus Crucifed (although both eventually choir nuns when they became Foundresses).