Trandgender Navy Seal

[CrossCuT]

I figured it was something like that, but the article hadnt specified.

 

[4588686]

For those who have trouble understanding how one could go from being a Navy Seal to being a transwoman, I would like to explain something.

 

According to Dr. Ray Blanchard, there are basically two types of male-to-female transsexuals:  (1) homosexual transsexuals, who were truly feminine boys and who are exclusively attracted to men since reaching puberty; and (2) autogynephilic transsexuals, that is, heterosexual men who develop a fetish, usually starting with furtive crossdressing, that involves erotic excitement at the notion of having a female body.  The autogynephiles live typically masculine lives, marry, have girlfriends, etc.  They usually concoct a narrative of having done so to hide or overcompensate for hidden femininity, but this is not credible.  In actuality, they are pursuing a fetish.  They are sexually attracted to femininity, but this attraction becomes directed at themselves as women.

 

I would bet the ranch that Kristen Beck is an autogynephile.

 

I fall into the first group, the "homosexual transsexuals."

 

Although the "solution" for both groups is the same -- female hormones, surgery, and living in the female role -- they are actually two very different phenomena.  I do not support transition for autogynephiles.

 

I recommend the book, The Man Who Would be Queen, by Michael Bailey, for an engaging look at these issues.

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/transgender-navy-seal-warrior-princess/story?id=19314231#.Ua4OvdJJOAg

 

 

"For years Chris had turned off his sexuality like a light switch and lived as a warrior, consumed with the battle -- living basically asexual. For Chris the other SEALs were brothers and in the man's man warrior lifestyle, even if he had wanted to entertain sexual thoughts, there really was never any time to be thinking too much about sexuality," the book says.

 

 

Speckhard said Beck first announced her decision to friends online with the declaration "No more disguises" and the book describes her going out to gay bars in Florida as a woman.  Beck is currently on hormone therapy in preparation for sexual reassignment surgery and generally wears long hair, make-up and women's clothes, Speckhard said.

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I would bet the ranch that Kristen Beck is an autogynephile.

 

I fall into the first group, the "homosexual transsexuals."

 

Although the "solution" for both groups is the same -- female hormones, surgery, and living in the female role -- they are actually two very different phenomena.  I do not support transition for autogynephiles.

 

Wait, why the assumption? I hope we could progress to a point where this story doesn't make national news.

[Clare Brigid]

Wait, why the assumption?

 

It is an assumption, yes.  It is based on Ms. Beck's very masculine past.  To understand why this is relevant, I refer you to The Man Who Would be Queen, by Michael Bailey.

 

I'm using this as a teaching moment.  :disguise:

[4588686]

It is an assumption, yes.  It is based on Ms. Beck's very masculine past.  To understand why this is relevant, I refer you to The Man Who Would be Queen, by Michael Bailey.

 

I'm using this as a teaching moment.  :disguise:

 

How does that mesh with him being sexually attracted to men?

[Clare Brigid]

How does that mesh with him being sexually attracted to men?

 

It doesn't say he's sexually attracted to men.  It says he went to a gay bar.  It's not the same thing.  Lots of transwomen who identify as lebians do the same, because it is a more accepting environment.

 

Just read the book, Hassan!  It's available to read online for free here:  http://faculty.wcas.northwestern.edu/JMichael-Bailey/TMWWBQ.pdf

[Seven77]

Bummer. I thought the topic read "Transpecies Navy Seal."

[HisChildForever]

It is an assumption, yes.  It is based on Ms. Beck's very masculine past.  To understand why this is relevant, I refer you to The Man Who Would be Queen, by Michael Bailey.

 

I'm using this as a teaching moment.  :disguise:

 

Just because he (she?) has a masculine past doesn't mean he's into a fetish. Plenty of homosexuals marry persons of the opposite-sex, have children, and decades later come out as gay. Isn't it the same concept? Are we to assume these homosexuals have some kind of a fetish because their pasts were the complete opposite of what they're saying/practicing now?

[Clare Brigid]

Just because he (she?) has a masculine past doesn't mean he's into a fetish. Plenty of homosexuals marry persons of the opposite-sex, have children, and decades later come out as gay. Isn't it the same concept? Are we to assume these homosexuals have some kind of a fetish because their pasts were the complete opposite of what they're saying/practicing now?

 

You're right.  It was wrong of me to assume that Ms. Beck is an autogynephile.  I do not know her.  I certainly regard her as a woman, in any case.

 

Nevertheless, aside from Ms. Beck's particular situation, I think it is important for people to be aware of the distinction between these two types of transwoman.
 

[Gabriela]

There's a man who works at my local post office who is about 2/3 of the way finished with a sex change. It's still obvious he's a man. Last week I answered one of his questions, "Yes, ma'am" and felt it was wrong.

 

Is it a sin to engage in transsexual behaviors? If it is, are we wrong to "play along"? I know it's polite to do so, but spiritually speaking... (If it is wrong, I'll avoid the whole issue by just not using any gendered pronouns at all.)

[CatholicsAreKewl]

There's a man who works at my local post office who is about 2/3 of the way finished with a sex change. It's still obvious he's a man. Last week I answered one of his questions, "Yes, ma'am" and felt it was wrong.

 

Is it a sin to engage in transsexual behaviors? If it is, are we wrong to "play along"? I know it's polite to do so, but spiritually speaking... (If it is wrong, I'll avoid the whole issue by just not using any gendered pronouns at all.)

 

I have a feeling someone acting like an authority on this issue will chime in and say it's a sin to accept the person for who she/he is. I doubt the Church has an actual position on this. I'd call the person what he or she prefers to go by. It's hard enough for the person as it is. 

Edited June 5, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[Gabriela]

I have a feeling someone acting like an authority on this issue will chime in and say it's a sin to accept the person for who she/he is. I doubt the Church has an actual position on this. I'd call the person what he or she prefers to go by. It's hard enough for the person as it is. 

 

Well, the Bible certainly has a position on it.

 

"A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the Lord your God." —Deuteronomy 22:5

 

But then, the Catholic Church tossed out a lot of OT stuff. So I'm wondering if this went with it, or if we kept it.

[photosynthesis]

There was a document only released to clergy that stated that there are cases where a sex change operation can be permissible.  It was not publicly released, but you can read a synopsis here:

 

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican-says-sex-change-operation-does-not-change-persons-gender

 

It basically says that those who have sex changes are still the sex they were born with according to canon law, but there are some cases where it is allowed.

 

Well, the Bible certainly has a position on it.

 

"A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the Lord your God." —Deuteronomy 22:5

 

But then, the Catholic Church tossed out a lot of OT stuff. So I'm wondering if this went with it, or if we kept it.

 

Does that mean I have to go to confession for watching Monty Python for hours at a time?

[Gabriela]

Does that mean I have to go to confession for watching Monty Python for hours at a time?

 

I think this is why actors got such a bad rap in olden times.

[Gabriela]

There was a document only released to clergy that stated that there are cases where a sex change operation can be permissible.  It was not publicly released, but you can read a synopsis here:

 

http://ncronline.org/news/vatican-says-sex-change-operation-does-not-change-persons-gender

 

That article says the document contains this:

 

"An analysis of the moral licitness of "sex-change" operations. It concludes that the procedure could be morally acceptable in certain extreme cases if a medical probability exists that it will "cure" the patient's internal turmoil."

 

I don't understand. In having a sex change, (usually) healthy reproductive organs are destroyed and replaced with useless reproductive organs. Which essentially means that the person is sterilized. And sterilization is forbidden.

 

So... how? Is sterilization sometimes permitted? When?

[HisChildForever]

There's a man who works at my local post office who is about 2/3 of the way finished with a sex change. It's still obvious he's a man. Last week I answered one of his questions, "Yes, ma'am" and felt it was wrong.

 

Is it a sin to engage in transsexual behaviors? If it is, are we wrong to "play along"? I know it's polite to do so, but spiritually speaking... (If it is wrong, I'll avoid the whole issue by just not using any gendered pronouns at all.)

 

Just treat them with love and compassion.

[Gabriela]

Just treat them with love and compassion.

 

Obviously. But what about the pronouns?

[CatholicsAreKewl]

Well, the Bible certainly has a position on it.

 

"A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the Lord your God." —Deuteronomy 22:5

 

But then, the Catholic Church tossed out a lot of OT stuff. So I'm wondering if this went with it, or if we kept it.

 

 

Ah, but this is a surgical procedure. The Bible might not be the best text to understand such a situation because the writers didn't have an understanding of these operations. That being said, I don't believe the Church allows for it (if it does, it's in particular cases). However, that doesn't mean that the Church advocates a denial of this person's new identity. If the person is technically a female now and wants to be acknowledged as such, it might do more harm than good to refuse to accept this individual's new identity. 

 

With all that said, I could be wrong from a theological perspective.

Edited June 5, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl

[4588686]

 

Well, the Bible certainly has a position on it.
 
"A woman shall not wear a man’s apparel, nor shall a man put on a woman’s garment; for whoever does such things is abhorrent to the Lord your God." —Deuteronomy 22:5
 
But then, the Catholic Church tossed out a lot of OT stuff. So I'm wondering if this went with it, or if we kept it.

That is the verse used as justification for St. Joam of Arc;s execution :D

[CatherineM]

It is permissible when the person was born with indeterminate gender or both genders. These are treated as correcting congenital birth defects.