Olam- Gain One, Lose One (yet Again)

[nikita92]

"The Nuns" of OLAM informed me, that Sister Edited by moderator: Edited to protect Sister's identity -- cmariadiaz has discerned out of the Poor Clares of Perpetual adoration and into a "New community"! (I have yet to write them back) July 26th would have been her 2nd profession anniversary. (She was in the rosary video) I really feel sad, because it seems so sudden and like it happened overnight.) I don't understand how a cloistered religious can discern another community when they are already in one! (Especially if their community as a whole,does not use the Internet) I know this type of situation is kept on the down low, but leaving a community to never be heard of again(when I have had written correspondence w/her) is somewhat a shocking experience. Then of course people say not to speculate what happen, but frankly, how can one NOT wonder?!

[maximillion]

I discerned out long before the internet was a twinkle in someone's eye!

 

Of course, not to another community, I agree, but even so.......you cannot possibly know either what goes on in the innermost heart of an individual or what God's plan for them is likely to be.

 

I agree it is hard when someone  goes out and you lose contact with them, there a number of people from the pham who came out and who never post here now, I have no idea what they are doing or where they are at with their vocation story, or even if they are still discerning. I simply have to trust they continue to search His will and leave it at that.

 

It is natural to be curious, it is natural to want to know, to have reassurance, but in the absence of this, we have to let go and let Him........

[juchu]

"The Nuns" of OLAM informed me, that Sister Edited by moderator: Edited to protect Sister's identity -- cmariadiaz has discerned out of the Poor Clares of Perpetual adoration and into a "New community"! (I have yet to write them back) July 26th would have been her 2nd profession anniversary. (She was in the rosary video) I really feel sad, because it seems so sudden and like it happened overnight.) I don't understand how a cloistered religious can discern another community when they are already in one! (Especially if their community as a whole,does not use the Internet) I know this type of situation is kept on the down low, but leaving a community to never be heard of again(when I have had written correspondence w/her) is somewhat a shocking experience. Then of course people say not to speculate what happen, but frankly, how can one NOT wonder?!

 

I do not know former Sister Edited by moderator: Edited to protect Sister's identity -- cmariadiaz, nor the community, besides the homepage, and I am on a different continent.

I am a novice in something one would call maybe a semi-contemplative monastery and I find wordings like "discerned out" not right. Until you make final profession you are still discerning. It is true that you make a commitment to God and to the community by first vows, but the Catholic Church has laws to dispense from vows especially during this formation period for a good reason.

 

We have had also sisters who decided to move to a different community. And I cannot see why one cannot discern this in a monastic setting. Formation is also a time to learn about other spiritualities one might has never heard before. I, for example, always had no relationship whatsoever with the Carmelites because I limited them to Thérèse de Lisieux (and most probably never understood her right ;) ), but I discovered the writings from St. John of the Cross who speaks a lot to me and enriches my life of prayer - and I am definetly not planning on leaving and jumping into a Carmelite Convent!!

Formation is a time to grow to become more aware of your deepest longings. And to get to now yourself better, especially if you enter quite young, you have to learn a lot about yourself, about your reactions, about your history....It is not always easy!! You have a lot of space for interieur growth and this growth will lead you to the right place. Be it to stay or to leave.

 

I understand that today with Internet and communities posting pictures of their novices and others in formation, one does become quite visible. But I ask the respect of everybody to let us discern in peace and not doing all this "oh from this community 3 left during postulancy, oh and this Sister left after only 1 year of vows..(example....) It takes courage to take the plunge into religiouse life, but it also takes not the less courage to leave religious life!! The sisters I knew that left had definetly not an easy time making the decision and there was an intensive listening to God by the superiors and the sisters - and I think that it can totally be God's will for someone to leave a community, be it to marry or to join in another community.

 

So to your question "to wonder what to happen" I would simply answer - She tried a way of life, she prayed most propaply a lot about it, she must have had an intensive difficult time of decision making which involved her and her superiors listening to the Holy Spirit - - and all we can do is offer our prayers for her and both the communities.

Leaving religious life is not a failure! It can be a most difficult act of obedience.

Edited September 4, 2013 by cmariadiaz

[AccountDeleted]

I do not know former Sister Edited by moderator: Edited to protect Sister's identity -- cmariadiaz , nor the community, besides the homepage, and I am on a different continent.

I am a novice in something one would call maybe a semi-contemplative monastery and I find wordings like "discerned out" not right. Until you make final profession you are still discerning. It is true that you make a commitment to God and to the community by first vows, but the Catholic Church has laws to dispense from vows especially during this formation period for a good reason.

 

We have had also sisters who decided to move to a different community. And I cannot see why one cannot discern this in a monastic setting. Formation is also a time to learn about other spiritualities one might has never heard before. I, for example, always had no relationship whatsoever with the Carmelites because I limited them to Thérèse de Lisieux (and most probably never understood her right ;) ), but I discovered the writings from St. John of the Cross who speaks a lot to me and enriches my life of prayer - and I am definetly not planning on leaving and jumping into a Carmelite Convent!!

Formation is a time to grow to become more aware of your deepest longings. And to get to now yourself better, especially if you enter quite young, you have to learn a lot about yourself, about your reactions, about your history....It is not always easy!! You have a lot of space for interieur growth and this growth will lead you to the right place. Be it to stay or to leave.

 

I understand that today with Internet and communities posting pictures of their novices and others in formation, one does become quite visible. But I ask the respect of everybody to let us discern in peace and not doing all this "oh from this community 3 left during postulancy, oh and this Sister left after only 1 year of vows..(example....) It takes courage to take the plunge into religiouse life, but it also takes not the less courage to leave religious life!! The sisters I knew that left had definetly not an easy time making the decision and there was an intensive listening to God by the superiors and the sisters - and I think that it can totally be God's will for someone to leave a community, be it to marry or to join in another community.

 

So to your question "to wonder what to happen" I would simply answer - She tried a way of life, she prayed most propaply a lot about it, she must have had an intensive difficult time of decision making which involved her and her superiors listening to the Holy Spirit - - and all we can do is offer our prayers for her and both the communities.

Leaving religious life is not a failure! It can be a most difficult act of obedience.

 

 

Absolutely spot on juchu! Just as a community has the right to decide that a person should leave because (for whatever reason) they are not a fit for them, so too may someone in the community decide to leave (for whatever reason). If they have found another community that seems to be a better fit (and there are many ways that someone can learn about other communities apart from the Internet)  or for whatever other reason. And if they feel that this is a step they must take, then who is anyone else to question them on this decision?

 

So she hasn't contacted everyone she has on her correspondence list to let them know her decision - maybe she doesn't want this to be posted on an online forum - maybe she doesn't know how to explain it to others - maybe she just needs a little time and space to work on what is happening inside her right now. If you really care about her, and not just about getting letters and info about the community, then you will be supportive and uncritical until she herself decides it is time to start corresponding again. this has to be hard on her and on both communities involved. And not everyone wants to wash their laundry in public all the time. Privacy is a precious thing but because of the information superhighway, I think the lines get a little blurred sometimes.

 

One of the things that is hard to deal with when leaving a community (or being asked to leave) is how to discuss it with others. There are always the inevitable questions that one doesn't know how to answer, especially things like 'who's fault was it?' 'why did you leave?' 'why did they ask you to leave?' or 'what are you going to do now?' (if you haven't gone into another community) - and the inevitable judgments that everyone feels entitled to make about what the situation means (are you doing God's will or your own, etc).

 

If you write to her first, then try not to be nosy and intrusive - just be supportive and uncritical. Or don't write anything for now and let some time pass.

 

Really, we are talking about a pretty personal experience, so respect for privacy and personal space should a key theme here. Please.

[Antigonos]

Isn't she the new sister who has joined Mother Mary Catherine's new community, the Benedictines of Divine Will?

[the171]

Dude, can you not post this online? I'm pretty sure this is information they shared with you in confidence. Even if it wasn't, it's just in good manners to not share something like this. ALSO, stop feeding the negative stigma that comes with discerning out. Stop. Trifling.

This is exactly why I usually avoid VS.

[beatitude]

Nikita, 'incredibly sad' feels like an over-strong emotional reaction for you to have over a personal decision taken by a woman whom you do not even personally know. If she had become addicted to drugs, or developed some terminal disease, I could understand such sadness, but over a life decision that she must have prayed about very carefully and that doesn't even affect you? It doesn't make sense.

 

Sometimes I worry that all the beautiful and detailed websites that so many religious communities have now encourage people to over-identify with them and to feel that they have some special right to know what's going on in the monastery, almost as though the nuns are putting on a soap opera or other entertainment. We haven't that right. Enclosed nuns usually think very carefully about their online presence, and how best to use the Internet in the spirit of their enclosure - and we should respect that. If they don't post details in public, we should not make the details known or speculate on what is happening. We wouldn't climb the enclosure wall to try and take a peek into their garden, or wonder if we could just peer into the community room at recreation to see what they're all up to, so why would we do this?

 

Recently I was looking at the lovely site for the Poor Clare Colettines in Wales, and I realised that in all their newsletters they say nothing about aspirants/postulants beyond a general 'An aspirant came to try our life' and they do not post pictures of these women. Now I see how wise and sensible this is. They give a good flavour of their community and spirituality without going into specifics about individual people. This is a good reminder that women enter convents to be sisters, not to become celebrities...

[Feankie]

No, she is not.  Another novice from Italy received pretty much the same name.  Mother Gabriel (former Vicar at OLAM) and another former sister, Sr. Rose I believe, from OLAM are Benedictines of Divine Will.   Sister Maria Scholastica of Our Merciful and Loving Eternal Father was just invested and was once a postulant at OLAM.  Sister Maria Chiara Veronica of the Most Holy Rosary is an Italian young lady who entered.

 

Edited September 4, 2013 by Francis Clare

[maximillion]

However much I prayerfully support the vocations of those I read about on VS, it is sometimes hard not to feel a degree of kindred, and hence, somehow, almost an ownership. I am so used to all the latest news from wherever it comes that I sometimes have to stop myself and remember that I much prefer to know someone's life, once they have entered, is hidden in Him, and not for me to know, speculate of find out about. If I do, that is a special privilege.

 

But I do have to remind myself of this from time to time.

[AccountDeleted]

Nikita, 'incredibly sad' feels like an over-strong emotional reaction for you to have over a personal decision taken by a woman whom you do not even personally know. If she had become addicted to drugs, or developed some terminal disease, I could understand such sadness, but over a life decision that she must have prayed about very carefully and that doesn't even affect you? It doesn't make sense.

 

Sometimes I worry that all the beautiful and detailed websites that so many religious communities have now encourage people to over-identify with them and to feel that they have some special right to know what's going on in the monastery, almost as though the nuns are putting on a soap opera or other entertainment. We haven't that right. Enclosed nuns usually think very carefully about their online presence, and how best to use the Internet in the spirit of their enclosure - and we should respect that. If they don't post details in public, we should not make the details known or speculate on what is happening. We wouldn't climb the enclosure wall to try and take a peek into their garden, or wonder if we could just peer into the community room at recreation to see what they're all up to, so why would we do this?

 

Recently I was looking at the lovely site for the Poor Clare Colettines in Wales, and I realised that in all their newsletters they say nothing about aspirants/postulants beyond a general 'An aspirant came to try our life' and they do not post pictures of these women. Now I see how wise and sensible this is. They give a good flavour of their community and spirituality without going into specifics about individual people. This is a good reminder that women enter convents to be sisters, not to become celebrities...

 

 

This is something that it has taken me a long time to learn, even about myself. From the beginning, I posted everything about my discernment - my thoughts and hopes and feelings. It seemed so exciting to share these things with others, And when things didn't work out in a particular monastery, I even came back to VS and posted all about that. It was a hard lesson to learn, but now I don't talk about my plans, thoughts, hopes, aspirations, or anything else related to current discernment at all, and the bare bones about past experiences. If God permits, then maybe one day I will post that I have made final vows, but until that day, my vocation is between me and God - and maybe a close family member or friend, but that's it.

 

No one needs to have others scrutinizing their every move when they are trying to come closer to God. I understand fully the joy that comes from wanting to share one's excitement and happiness with others, and I wouldn't discourage anyone else from posting about their vocation - but I do caution against getting so involved in the emotional high that one forgets that this is a very serious business - and it is also very difficult. There are many PM VSers who feel too embarrassed to come back and post here if they have left a community for any reason. So let's just be careful and considerate in how we expose others to our gaze. Fine, post about entrances and clothings, if these are available online, but for heaven's sake, let's not focus on who left where or why. The ending of any relationship, by choice or not, is painful, even if all parties agree to it. And loving God makes one particularly vulnerable. So - common sense and discretion in this area, ok?  :)

[DameAgnes]

Isn't she the new sister who has joined Mother Mary Catherine's new community, the Benedictines of Divine Will?

 

No.

[Gabriela]

Given some of the things that have been said here, I feel maybe this is an appropriate time to express some hesitations about all of the "Countdown" threads. On the one hand, I can see how it's an exciting time and people want to share it. On the other hand, it sometimes (not always—please don't anyone take it personally) seems to me like attention-seeking. Shouldn't the time before entry be one of intense prayer and gradual separation from the world? Then again, maybe a Countdown thread gives people a chance to "say goodbye to the world".

 

I don't know, but I have conflicting feelings about those threads.

 

Does anyone have thoughts?

[Antigonos]

No, she is not. Another novice from Italy received pretty much the same name. Mother Gabriel (former Vicar at OLAM) and another former sister, Sr. Rose I believe, from OLAM are Benedictines of Divine Will. [font='Times New Roman']Sister Maria Scholastica of Our Merciful and Loving Eternal Father was just invested and was once a postulant at OLAM. [/font][font='Times New Roman']Sister Maria Chiara Veronica of [/font][font='Times New Roman']the Most Holy Rosary is an Italian young lady who entered.[/font]

Thanks for the clarification!

[cmaD2006]

After contacting dUSt, I have decided to edit the sister's name out of this thread.

 

Please, please consider when posting the privacy of the person involved.  Usually when a community communicates information such as "Sister so-and-so has left" it is done in a private manner and not in a public one.  In such a case the privacy of the person involved should be respected.

 

Information about investitures and entrances and moving from one state to another can be discussed if a) the person involved gives permission, or b) if the community gives permission, or c) it is public knowledge via a newsletter or an update to a website.

 

If someone wants to talk about the difficulty of dealing with someone having left a community, that's ok -- just keep the person's identity (either real life name or name in community) anonymous to protect her privacy (or his privacy in the case of a Brother).

[cmaD2006]

Given some of the things that have been said here, I feel maybe this is an appropriate time to express some hesitations about all of the "Countdown" threads. On the one hand, I can see how it's an exciting time and people want to share it. On the other hand, it sometimes (not always—please don't anyone take it personally) seems to me like attention-seeking. Shouldn't the time before entry be one of intense prayer and gradual separation from the world? Then again, maybe a Countdown thread gives people a chance to "say goodbye to the world".

 

I don't know, but I have conflicting feelings about those threads.

 

Does anyone have thoughts?

 

From a mod's point of view:  these are valid threads and a person who is entering has every right to open one if he/she so chooses.  A countdown thread is usually opened by the person who is entering. 

 

From a personal view:  I opened one way back in the day :).  When I opened my countdown thread I opened it in order to share my joy with those on PM.  PM had become a place where I had grown to love, and my countdown was also a way of saying goodbye. 

 

It is really, really up to the discernment of the person involved. 

 

Sure it could be an attention seeking thread as well, but if Vocation Station is a family, wouldn't you want to say goodbye to those who supported you in prayer while you discerned?

 

Finally, I would say that we should all be charitable in this regard -- and accept that someone opened a countdown thread.  Pray for their perseverence in Religious Life.  Pray for their happiness.  Pray for their proper discernment, and that they would have the courage to choose to stay or leave as the Lord guides.