Consecrated Virgin In The World - 50 Words Or Less

[God's Beloved]

The reference to the white shirt and rope tied around the waist by Parsis is related to an Initiation ceremony which for them is a re-birth. What touched me when I heard a talk by a Parsi sharing this , is 'another' way of having an identity.

 

Religious men and women usually dress in a habit which is a very important aspect of their personal and institutional identity as religious. For many of them, the very act of receiving a habit gives them a religious identity.

 

However a CV need not have her identity as a CV by wearing a habit. If she does so due to pastoral sensitivity , the People around her will identify her as a consecrated person but 'her own' identity is not tied to external clothing.

 

For some CV who receive a veil during the ceremony of consecration, it does feel like receiving the identity of a spouse of Christ dedicated to serve the Church as a mother. But once this identity is received by receiving the veil, it remains forever. By not wearing a veil in daily life,she does not lose her identity as bride and mother.

 

What I mentioned about the Rite of consecration of virgins being one of the most beautiful rites in the tradition of the church ,is mentioned in several historical  documents on the  liturgy as well as Post Vat II commentaries.

 

Regarding your question about the parallel in the structure of the rite with the rite of ordination, I think it applies even to the rite of religious profession. I have not done much reading on this aspect. Maybe someone else will answer. With regard to CV 'receiving ' the consecration thru the special Prayer by the bishop ,I think it is due to the theology of grace in early church history. [ different from Thomistic / Scholastic theology ].

 

 

 

 

[oremus1]

The reference to the white shirt and rope tied around the waist by Parsis is related to an Initiation ceremony which for them is a re-birth. What touched me when I heard a talk by a Parsi sharing this , is 'another' way of having an identity.

 

Religious men and women usually dress in a habit which is a very important aspect of their personal and institutional identity as religious. For many of them, the very act of receiving a habit gives them a religious identity.

 

However a CV need not have her identity as a CV by wearing a habit. If she does so due to pastoral sensitivity , the People around her will identify her as a consecrated person but 'her own' identity is not tied to external clothing.

 

For some CV who receive a veil during the ceremony of consecration, it does feel like receiving the identity of a spouse of Christ dedicated to serve the Church as a mother. But once this identity is received by receiving the veil, it remains forever. By not wearing a veil in daily life,she does not lose her identity as bride and mother.

 

What I mentioned about the Rite of consecration of virgins being one of the most beautiful rites in the tradition of the church ,is mentioned in several historical  documents on the  liturgy as well as Post Vat II commentaries.

 

Regarding your question about the parallel in the structure of the rite with the rite of ordination, I think it applies even to the rite of religious profession. I have not done much reading on this aspect. Maybe someone else will answer. With regard to CV 'receiving ' the consecration thru the special Prayer by the bishop ,I think it is due to the theology of grace in early church history. [ different from Thomistic / Scholastic theology ].

 

It was in the Pontifical of guillame durand, he revised the rite and added a lot of aspects from the rite of ordination. he explains the reasons in the rationale divinum officium but i have no copy of this to refer to . alot of those aspects have since been removed through.

 

a different question: Therese Ivers in her famous book says that CVs sholud be called 'Reverend Miss' or 'Rev.' the usacv says the CV should not call herself 'Sr' as she is in the world and not set apart from the world. so at first i thought therese suggestion was kind of weird. but then i thought, men are always called 'Mr' if they are single, or married. whereas women are required to disclose their marital status as 'miss' or 'mrs'. so actually therese makes a good point. how does a CV identify herself as in a nuptial committed relationship as a married woman rather than a single woman? ideally she should be 'Mrs', but legally i am sure this will cause problems. so it is either 'ms' or 'miss' which shows her to be single and unmarried, or 'rev/sr' to show she is a sacred person.

[brandelynmarie]

Ladies, I have an open question which is out of curiosity...What do you think of the Mystical Espousal in the lives of certain saints, say, St. Catherine of Siena, for example...She was a virgin who experienced a high degree of mystical prayer...Would she & others be considered essentially CV's? Or is it because they are not consecrated by a bishop that they are in a different state entirely?

[God's Beloved]

Ladies, I have an open question which is out of curiosity...What do you think of the Mystical Espousal in the lives of certain saints, say, St. Catherine of Siena, for example...She was a virgin who experienced a high degree of mystical prayer...Would she & others be considered essentially CV's? Or is it because they are not consecrated by a bishop that they are in a different state entirely?

 

Brandelynmarie,

 

There are three aspects to the vocation of CV who has received the consecration according to the ancient liturgical rite / prayer by the bishop of a local church.

 

She is 'given' the Identity of the 'Church' as virgin, bride , mother. Hence she is :

consecrated to God,

mystically espoused to Jesus Christ,

dedicated to the service of the church.

 

This identity is public.

 

However in the lives of virgin saints in the history of the church, their experiences of a high degree of mystical prayer are a private and personal gift. No one else may know about it. They may be truly holy in the eyes of God , compared to a CV who becomes complacent in her vocation.

 

Due to the public status, the church has the right to have expectations from the CV , but not with someone who had a private experience of mystical union.

 

I hope this explains the distinction in understanding.

[brandelynmarie]

Thank you so much for your kind & gentle explaination :) I am following this conversation in order to get a better understanding of the CV vocation...& it is bringing about many different ideas within me... again, thank you...

[oremus1]

What about my questions?

 

- use of Mrs for CVs

- parallels with ordination

- obedience for CVs (some say it is encompassed by hre consecrated identity, others say it is not relevent)

Edited February 14, 2014 by oremus1

[God's Beloved]

What about my questions?

 

- use of Mrs for CVs

- parallels with ordination

- obedience for CVs (some say it is encompassed by hre consecrated identity, others say it is not relevent)

 

Sorry dear !

 

Life is not a question to be solved by a Mystery to be lived. In CV you will find many many questions unanswered , varied opinions. Maybe you'll have to learn to live with them  as part of your formation.

 

My personal thoughts : wouldn't it be most appropriate to call a CV 'mother' ? Afterall  that is her identity as CV like our Virgin- Mother Mary.

 

Theology of CV often sees it as the Marian principle in the Church , somewhat parallel to the ordained ministry in the Church.

 

Obedience is to God , to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in daily life , speaking to our Spouse in prayer and discerning His will , using God-given reason in our interactions with the world. Finally obedience is the imitation of Jesus who willingly died on the cross and like Mary who willingly collaborated in God's plan of salvation for humanity. All this is a possible spirituality.

 

As far as the bishop is concerned, a CV owes the same obedience that a lay person or married couple owes to the spiritual father in the church. Some scholars [post Vat II ] have seen the possibility of an agreement between the bishop and the CV, before the consecration , allowing the possibility of some kind of dependence on the diocese for her survival needs and social security, provided she will work for the diocese wherever the bishop sees the need. This is rare.

Edited February 14, 2014 by God's Beloved

[oremus1]

Sorry dear !

 

Life is not a question to be solved by a Mystery to be lived. In CV you will find many many questions unanswered , varied opinions. Maybe you'll have to learn to live with them  as part of your formation.

 

My personal thoughts : wouldn't it be most appropriate to call a CV 'mother' ? Afterall  that is her identity as CV like our Virgin- Mother Mary.

 

Theology of CV often sees it as the Marian principle in the Church , somewhat parallel to the ordained ministry in the Church.

 

Obedience is to God , to the promptings of the Holy Spirit in daily life , speaking to our Spouse in prayer and discerning His will , using God-given reason in our interactions with the world. Finally obedience is the imitation of Jesus who willingly died on the cross and like Mary who willingly collaborated in God's plan of salvation for humanity. All this is a possible spirituality.

 

As far as the bishop is concerned, a CV owes the same obedience that a lay person or married couple owes to the spiritual father in the church. Some scholars [post Vat II ] have seen the possibility of an agreement between the bishop and the CV, before the consecration , allowing the possibility of some kind of dependence on the diocese for her survival needs and social security, provided she will work for the diocese wherever the bishop sees the need. This is rare.

  
Thanks  dear! :)

I suppose the title of the CV  is for her individual choice and would depend on each one and their circumstance, and what they wish to be called, many like to be 'sister'. you may like 'mother'. another may like 'reverend '  perhaps none are wonrg as such? I would quite like to take on a name, like one does in some countries at confirmation, and in some older convents, or like muslims do when they convert

 

I am sure the USACV wrote a long item about the parallels with priests but I cannot find it??

Many CVs say obedience is as you describe. but a few in a vocal minority think the relationship between the CV and the bishop should emulate religious obedience and she should be directed by him , which is why I was wondering. also some priests say the obedience to God is not properly obedience since you have no tangible accountability or physical superior.

 

 

[oremus1]

i just found out in my country, women who have had their marriage annulled are not excluded from consecration. because chastity =/= celibacy, and one can observe marital chastity , therefore a married couple living together are not in public violation of chastity. when i mentioned the CDW respose to Cardinal Burke, I was told "that is just an opinion, thats not what we do here. the emphasis is on being an autonomous celibate vowed woman". are CDW responses binding in any way? must they be followed?

[oremus1]

i just found out in my country, women who have had their marriage annulled are not excluded from consecration. because chastity =/= celibacy, and one can observe marital chastity , therefore a married couple living together are not in public violation of chastity. when i mentioned the CDW respose to Cardinal Burke, I was told "that is just an opinion, thats not what we do here. the emphasis is on being an autonomous celibate vowed woman". are CDW responses binding in any way? must they be followed?

 

 

Sorry another question!

 

Our national co-ordinator says that the Rite of consecration did not evolve from matrimony or ordinartion, it was just written for that purpose. she also says there was no giving of a red veil in ancient times ('flammeum') - red veil was only given to penitents. 

 

by implication, i would assume it would have been given to CVs as a sign of their sinfulness or something hence why in our country the veil is not given.

 

has anyone heard of this before?

[Sponsa-Christi]

i just found out in my country, women who have had their marriage annulled are not excluded from consecration. because chastity =/= celibacy, and one can observe marital chastity , therefore a married couple living together are not in public violation of chastity. when i mentioned the CDW respose to Cardinal Burke, I was told "that is just an opinion, thats not what we do here. the emphasis is on being an autonomous celibate vowed woman". are CDW responses binding in any way? must they be followed?

 

Technically, individual responses from Vatican dicasteries are not absolutely the authoritative last word on a given subject, although they are certainly much more significant than something like a theologian or canonist's private professional opinion. 

 

However, the Rite itself states that it is required of candidates for the consecration "...that they have never been married or lived in public or flagrant violation of chastity". (Emphasis mine) A marriage that was declared null is still a "putative marriage," which is why the children of such a union are still considered legitimate. 

 

(And this is beside the point that it really isn't very accurate to say that consecrated virginity is just about being "an autonomous celibate vowed woman.")

[God's Beloved]

i just found out in my country, women who have had their marriage annulled are not excluded from consecration. because chastity =/= celibacy, and one can observe marital chastity , therefore a married couple living together are not in public violation of chastity. when i mentioned the CDW respose to Cardinal Burke, I was told "that is just an opinion, thats not what we do here. the emphasis is on being an autonomous celibate vowed woman". are CDW responses binding in any way? must they be followed?

 

Yours is not the only country where this is happening.

 

My personal opinion is that they are 'not' entering the order of virgins as per canon 604 . These are women who for various reasons wish to have some kind of recognition in the church to their single life , or continue their religious vocation outside a religious institute. The church does not have a rite for them, so they are modifying the ancient rite , changing the 'essentials' of the rite , thus formulating another rite of their own , getting it approved by their bishop who is not an expert in these matters.

 

This may be okay for elderly women , but for a young woman like you, who has expectations and desire to truly live the vocation of CV , I say....WAIT !..... do not hurry to receive the consecration  even if your heart desires it so much.

 

I wonder whether we need to make a joint petition to the Holy Father regarding this problem. So many groups, institutes, individuals , ex-religious etc are misusing , changing the rite. Real lives are involved here.

 

To remain silent , according to me, is to agree with the wrong that is happening. Forgive me for my strong words.

[oremus1]

Yours is not the only country where this is happening.

 

My personal opinion is that they are 'not' entering the order of virgins as per canon 604 . These are women who for various reasons wish to have some kind of recognition in the church to their single life , or continue their religious vocation outside a religious institute. The church does not have a rite for them, so they are modifying the ancient rite , changing the 'essentials' of the rite , thus formulating another rite of their own , getting it approved by their bishop who is not an expert in these matters.

 

This may be okay for elderly women , but for a young woman like you, who has expectations and desire to truly live the vocation of CV , I say....WAIT !..... do not hurry to receive the consecration  even if your heart desires it so much.

 

I wonder whether we need to make a joint petition to the Holy Father regarding this problem. So many groups, institutes, individuals , ex-religious etc are misusing , changing the rite. Real lives are involved here.

 

To remain silent , according to me, is to agree with the wrong that is happening. Forgive me for my strong words.

Its more women aged 50 - 65 who do this i think (wanting the consecration when they find themselves unmarried at a certain age).

we do have people changing the word virginity to celibacy in the rite.

we also have people taking a ritual for lay associations, replacing the name of that association with 'order of consecrated widows' and bishops using it to consecrate widows.

i have been told the intro to the rite is 'a product of its time' and no longer followed - this includes the specified dates of the consecration.

i also requested info about meeting with the bishop after consecration as per apostolorum successores, but was told that no-one meets the bishop after consecration (most consecrations are delegated to priests therefore some CVs never meet the bishop at all), and that it was a sign of spiritual immaturity to want to continue contact with the bishop. that CVs are supposed to be fully mature and autonomous, not to use up the time of the bishop.

the bishops dont care, and there is no point in me raising these issues as most CVs in our country are like that, and happy that that is alright. so it will look like i am causing trouble. no-one cares. only a few USA bishops care. most bishops seem to think CVs render no ministry, so the main thing is to just consecrate them if they seem normal, then they will stop using up time.

Edited February 17, 2014 by oremus1

[oremus1]

sorry - even more questions!

 

Sponsa mentioned that marriages which are anulled prevent one from becoming a CV due to 'putaive marriage'.

 

Where does it say that putive marriage counts as marraige for c.604? or is this just one possible interpretation?

 

Most people would consider anullment to mean there was no marriage in the first place at all.

 

also, what about people who have been in josephite (celibate) marriages? surely those ladies are elibigle and their marriage could easily be annulled?

[oremus1]

Also can I share this photo album of CVs from a gathering in france http://www.helenerobert.com/viergesconsacrees.swf . you can see the badges given out from the 2008 pilgrimage. you can also see that most are very old, no young ones.  

[BarbTherese]

 http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/resources/life-and-family/marriage/catholic-marriage-and-annulments/  "In addition, the Church acknowledges that there was a valid civil contract and recognizes that the spouses were lawfully married in the eyes of the state. Therefore, all children born of this valid civil contract are legitimate, according to the Catholic Church. In keeping with canon 1137, they are known as the legitimate children of a "putative marriage"

 

I might be a bit off topic, but since "putative marriage" has been raised within the subject, I am interested in the actual meaning of the term.

 

a) I am a bit confused about "putative marriage" - is the term only for marriages with the legitimate children born of a later annulled marriage, or is it a term for annulled marriages without children as well provided it was a valid civil or state marriage?

 

Canon 1137 Children who are conceived or born of a valid or of a putative marriage are legitimate.

 

b) From the above, it seems to me (could be wrong - this is Canon Law!)that a valid marriage in the eyes of the state or civil law is known as a "putative marriage" in the eyes of The Church once the marriage is annulled and whether children were born of the marriage or not?

 

[BarbTherese]

(As clarification.  I am not considering any sort of public consecration in Canon Law - I am 68yrs old and with an annulled marriage.  I am interested in the subject of CV in this thread for personal info only)

[BarbTherese]

As I understand annulment - there was no marriage in the eyes of The Church, while there was according to civil law.  Hence prior to applying for annulment, I needed a divorce (which had been effected in my case prior to applying to the Tribunal).

 

http://www.americancatholic.org/newsletters/cu/ac1002.asp

"The Catholic Church presumes that marriages are valid, binding spouses for life. When couples do separate and divorce, therefore, the Church examines in detail their marriage to determine if, right from the start, some essential element was missing in their relationship. If that fact has been established, it means the spouses did not have the kind of marital link that binds them together for life.

 

The Church then issues a declaration of nullity (an annulment) and both are free to marry again in the Catholic Church."

 

 

[oremus1]

(As clarification.  I am not considering any sort of public consecration in Canon Law - I am 68yrs old and with an annulled marriage.  I am interested in the subject of CV in this thread for personal info only)

 

I am not sure, Sponsa is a canon lawyer i think .

 

I found this http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12584a.htm which seems to be that putative mariage is where at least one party believes the marriage to be valid, but is actually invalid. (hence even though the parties may think they are married, they are actually not canonically married. ) it is a bit like 'marrige' prior to realising it is invalid requiring annulment.

 

its relevance to this thread is that the Rite of Consecration says that the CV must "never have been married". in some countries, women whose marriages which have been annulled are counted as "never married" and hence are being consecrated under c.604 (it is also debatable whether physical virginity is required).

 

A strict interpretation is: physical virginity is required AND a woman must never have entered into any sort of marriage even if proven later to be invalid

 

A liberal interpretation: spiritual purity only is required, and annulled marriages are not considered marriages at all.

Edited February 21, 2014 by oremus1

[oremus1]

Another question: Is it possible to be dispensed from consecration? many CVs say NO, most notably the USACV and Therese Ivers on her famous blog - their reason being that is a nuptial vocation, not one which has vows. Hwoevr the CDW says the bishop CAN dispense:

I saw this

 

http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/126119-can-a-consecrated-virgin-become-a-diocesan-hermit-or-vice-versa/

In yr 2003 I sent following Questions to the Congr for the Inst. of Cons. life in Rome :

 

Canon 604#1 says that we are consecrated by the Bishop. How exactly is this different from the Prayer of consecration in the Rite for the Profession of Religious Women ? In several theological articles it is said that in the Cons. of virgins what is specific is the charismatic element in the Rite whereas in the Rite of Religious Profession what is specific is the ascetic element or the Profession of vows according to the Constitution of the Institute .............Since the Consecration takes place by the very words in the Prayer of Consecration, the Information provided by the United States Association of Consecrated Virgins says that it is Irrevocable. They say there can be no dispensation from the commitment ...........in case later in life the virgin feels a call to marriage. How far is this true ?

 

Their response : Prot.n. SpR 862-4/2003 was :

 

........ it is to be hoped that as the Rite is better known,and is studied both by the candidate and by the consecrating bishop, it will be clear that the candidate's proposito expresses her intent and the solemn prayer of the Bishop consecrates her. This is distinct from the rite of religious profession in which the profession of the evangelical counsels- all other canonical requirements being in place--consecrates the candidate to God[c.654]

 

It would be true to say that the Consecration effected through the Rite is permanent. For this reason some Bishops require periods of time with a private vow of chastity during the formation time, before accepting a candidate for the Consecration.We have , however, received the question of a possible dispensation from the proposito and from the obligations arising from the Consecration. This while regrettable, would seem would be within the competency of the Diocesan Bishop. There has not been any formal definition in this regard