freudianslippers Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So if what you say is true, why is the devil so powerful and God so powerless? I was partially homeschooled because my mother believed public school curriculum was abusive and misleading. I searched for God and found nothing. Some of my closest friends are homosexual. They are beautiful people and I don't believe God abandoned them because of some archaic teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Archaic as in... every culture on the face of the earth for the last twenty-five centuries or so? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 So if what you say is true, why is the devil so powerful and God so powerless? I was partially homeschooled because my mother believed public school curriculum was abusive and misleading. I searched for God and found nothing. Some of my closest friends are homosexual. They are beautiful people and I don't believe God abandoned them because of some archaic teaching. Who said God was powerless? Can God not let us struggle so as to gain more faith in him? Story of Job, we don't always understand the reason, but that doesn't mean there is no purpose. I'm sorry you have not found God in your search. I'm sure I would have thoughts about your journey, but I know nothing about it so I can't comment on that. God has never abandoned anyone, and to insinuate the Catholic Church has taught that is just plain wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes, history repeats itself. What is it Phatmassers say? "Haters gonna hate." Funny that. Sure seems like there's always so much hate... and that includes judgment, condemnation of people who are different. So if we're so predictable, what makes Catholicism so different? For you, I mean? Condemning gays is kind of like saying, "Only people who walk on 2 feet shall enter heaven. All wheelchair bound shall perish..." right? I'm tired of playing the, "I'm better than you" game. Aren't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 this thread has jumped the shark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 Yes, history repeats itself. What is it Phatmassers say? "Haters gonna hate." Funny that. Sure seems like there's always so much hate... and that includes judgment, condemnation of people who are different. So if we're so predictable, what makes Catholicism so different? For you, I mean? Condemning gays is kind of like saying, "Only people who walk on 2 feet shall enter heaven. All wheelchair bound shall perish..." right? I'm tired of playing the, "I'm better than you" game. Aren't you? I'm confused how you got to any of those statements based on this thread. Who is hating on who? Catholic teaching is that we can't condemn or judge anyone and I haven't seen any of that going on here. Yes, I'm tired of the I'm better than you game in general, but I don't see anyone playing that game. Please help me to see what you saw that led you to those things, because we are obviously reading the same stuff in two COMPLETELY different ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why is it that if you are homosexual yet abstinent, yet you are still forbidden to be a priest or a nun? Why is it an issue if homosexual men or women want to serve according to their beliefs? To be fair, it's not just Catholicism, there are a number of organized religions which are outright homophobic. And it bothers me insomuch that it affects the rest of our lives. Because this is a predominately Christian country, Christian values are embedded in every social aspect. Why should it be an issue if a gay dude wants to be a celibate priest? I do admit that I come here with preconcieved notions and if I've misunderstood the thread which appears to me to be very anti gay, then I apologize. Sure there are limits for all of us. Cats can't cook. That's unreasonable to expect. But gay people CAN help others so why the homophobia? Who cares how "entrenched" it is? How is it automatically a bad thing? Personally speaking, and I am not pretending any level of education here, just the hard knocks of life common sense, considering how difficult celibacy is and that the sex drive is very basic to all of us, wouldn't it be better not to be so restrictive? Not only for gays, but for heterosexuals. Maybe the whole sex scandal would be reduced if men were not putting themselves in the unnatural denial of a very primordial desire. This can't be that unreasonable of a request to consider, haven't there been married priests in the past? But I realize that I am not on a site where the members will praise me for my unoriginal thinking. I have no intention of being rude if that's what worries you. BTW, what would it take to get the Vatican/Pope to change on this matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why is it that if you are homosexual yet abstinent, yet you are still forbidden to be a priest or a nun? Why is it an issue if homosexual men or women want to serve according to their beliefs? To be fair, it's not just Catholicism, there are a number of organized religions which are outright homophobic. And it bothers me insomuch that it affects the rest of our lives. Because this is a predominately Christian country, Christian values are embedded in every social aspect. Why should it be an issue if a gay dude wants to be a celibate priest? I do admit that I come here with preconcieved notions and if I've misunderstood the thread which appears to me to be very anti gay, then I apologize. Sure there are limits for all of us. Cats can't cook. That's unreasonable to expect. But gay people CAN help others so why the homophobia? Who cares how "entrenched" it is? How is it automatically a bad thing? Personally speaking, and I am not pretending any level of education here, just the hard knocks of life common sense, considering how difficult celibacy is and that the sex drive is very basic to all of us, wouldn't it be better not to be so restrictive? Not only for gays, but for heterosexuals. Maybe the whole sex scandal would be reduced if men were not putting themselves in the unnatural denial of a very primordial desire. This can't be that unreasonable of a request to consider, haven't there been married priests in the past? But I realize that I am not on a site where the members will praise me for my unoriginal thinking. I have no intention of being rude if that's what worries you. BTW, what would it take to get the Vatican/Pope to change on this matter? The idea that people rape children because they are sexually repressed by rules concerning celibacy is a common one, but rooted in ignorance. Pedophilia is a deep seated mental illness which like many sexual disorders is rooted in childhood (and likely in the womb). Most people who abuse children are married. While there's nothing theologically wrong with married priests it certainly wouldn't prevent abuse from taking place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Why is it that if you are homosexual yet abstinent, yet you are still forbidden to be a priest or a nun? [...] Personally speaking, and I am not pretending any level of education here, just the hard knocks of life common sense, considering how difficult celibacy is and that the sex drive is very basic to all of us, wouldn't it be better not to be so restrictive? [...] Well, speaking from my hard knocks life of common sense, if a homosexual person wants to stay chaste and celibate, locking them up in a seminary or a cloister together only with other members the same sex (especially if a number of those are homosexual as well) probably isn't the wisest thing - nor the kindest thing if they are really looking to steer clear of temptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) You think there's less temptation elsewhere? That's not fair. Priests are tempted against the sin of celibacy, are they not? Aren't priests attracted to women and yet they still have to hear their confessions and be counselors to them? So it's okay to tempt heterosexual priests but not homosexual priests? Is the sin of homosexuality worse in your eyes? Edited February 27, 2014 by freudianslippers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The idea that people rape children because they are sexually repressed by rules concerning celibacy is a common one, but rooted in ignorance. Pedophilia is a deep seated mental illness which like many sexual disorders is rooted in childhood (and likely in the womb). Most people who abuse children are married. While there's nothing theologically wrong with married priests it certainly wouldn't prevent abuse from taking place. I haven't mentioned either one of those. But yes, it is really messed up that priests molest little boys. And there is no excuse. If celibacy is the issue, then fix it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 You think there's less temptation elsewhere? That's not fair. Priests are tempted against the sin of celibacy, are they not? Aren't priests attracted to women and yet they still have to hear their confessions and be counselors to them? So it's okay to tempt heterosexual priests but not homosexual priests? Is the sin of homosexuality worse in your eyes? I can tell from this that you've never been in a seminary, monastery or a cloister. Priests do have to interact with both sexes at parishes in a professional setting. However, nuns, brothers, and seminarians have to live in the same building, share the same bathrooms, showers, and even bedrooms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The inclination toward homosexuality is NOT a sin, but it is disordered to nature. The fact of the matter is not one of homophobia, but it is the understanding of the Church that sexual disorders disqualify one from being considered for the Priesthood. Other disorders can disqualify people, but it is not as widely talked about or recognized. Just as an example of another sexual disordered if a Man was addicted to say pornography and he was unable or unwilling to combat and overcome it, it's pretty much going to be an issue. Yes, celibacy is hard, yes we go through a lot of formation to be able to live and share our sexuality in a celibate way and yes it is similar to the growth we need to help our homosexual members with. Not being a Priest does not mean one can not do good things and comfort. In fact it is the LAITY who are the evangelizers of the Church, too many people look towards the ordained as a power and position thing. It's really about a SERVICE thing.. Homosexuals can join some religious communities depending on each's charism and rule and so forth. Just like each community has their own age restrictions or rules As for Married Priests yes the Catholic Church has had married Priests in the past and it has married priests today too. I don't think the current discipline ought to change in this matter. What would it take for it to change? i dunno a massive shift in the World wide Catholic culture that would allow a deep understanding that a dual Vocation Priest/husband has. Parishes that were more willing to not have Fr around because he's off being a good Dad too, but a family who is willing to not have Dad around because he's being a priest at the Hospital. A Culture that understands the unique, yet non consecrated role the Wife of a priest plays in a community. The Eastern Churches have not lost this tradition for the most part...the Western Churches have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 The idea that people rape children because they are sexually repressed by rules concerning celibacy is a common one, but rooted in ignorance. Pedophilia is a deep seated mental illness which like many sexual disorders is rooted in childhood (and likely in the womb). Most people who abuse children are married. While there's nothing theologically wrong with married priests it certainly wouldn't prevent abuse from taking place. truth. If you were sexually frustrated because you couldn't have sex with women, why would one suddenly say, "oh I'll do sex things with kids. Perfect solution!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 truth. If you were sexually frustrated because you couldn't have sex with women, why would one suddenly say, "oh I'll do sex things with kids. Perfect solution!" Healthy people don't make jumps like that. It frustrates me when people act like we're so uncontrollably sexual that if we don't find an adult willing to have sex with us, we'll jump the nearest thing to us. Self-control is a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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