NotreDame Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 -The current Ukrainian state does not constitutionally identify as a socialist state -The President of Ukraine is not and does not claim to be a socialist -The Communist Party is illegal in Ukraine -The Socialist party in Ukraine is a marginal party in Ukrainian politics. -The current Ukrainian state does not constitutionally identify as a socialist state Which might be why the people of the west are protesting and pulling down lenin statues: So the Ukraine doesn't go full Venezuela. -The President of Ukraine is not and does not claim to be a socialist Viktor belongs to a non-ideological party, but this is typical for marxists trying to take power, to hide their intentions ala Castro. And he was a member of the communist party, he is aligned with Russia, run by former KGB and you don't know he's not socialist. He certainly was socialist previously. -The Communist Party is illegal in Ukraine Umm... Earth to Hasan-Baby! No it's not. It has 32 seats in the parliament! -The Socialist party in Ukraine is a marginal party in Ukrainian politics. The "socialist" party, svoboda, is more of a hitler socialism than a marxist socialism, so it doesn't have a lot of fans, but it does have about 30 seats in parliament still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Y mi gente esta protestando contra el pinche socialismo en Venezuela tambien: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Latest news: The president has fled Kiev, and the people have taken control of the city. The president refuses to give up his power, but losing the capital is quite symbolic in a major loss of his original power. If he can't control his people, what power did he really have in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Latest news: The president has fled Kiev, and the people have taken control of the city. The president refuses to give up his power, but losing the capital is quite symbolic in a major loss of his original power. If he can't control his people, what power did he really have in the first place? Well, it's primarily a regional struggle. The capital is in the western half and Yanukovych has gone back to his power base in the east. The army has vowed to stay out of what they currently consider a political issue (thank God), but the eastern folks are talking about militia's and who knows what Putin might do to support them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Well, it's primarily a regional struggle. The capital is in the western half and Yanukovych has gone back to his power base in the east. The army has vowed to stay out of what they currently consider a political issue (thank God), but the eastern folks are talking about militia's and who knows what Putin might do to support them. Why would Putin have anything to do with it? Russia doesn't control the Ukraine anymore. I think part of the reason why I'm so into this whole issue is because I'm part Russian. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Why would Putin have anything to do with it? Russia doesn't control the Ukraine anymore. I think part of the reason why I'm so into this whole issue is because I'm part Russian. :P Was that a serious question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted February 22, 2014 Author Share Posted February 22, 2014 Was that a serious question? I don't know much about Ukranian politics. I do know the Ukraine is its own country and is no longer controlled by Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 I don't know much about Ukranian politics. I do know the Ukraine is its own country and is no longer controlled by Russia. That's ok. Neither does NotreDame. Which is why it's a little ironic that's he's taking such a condescending tone towards you. Putin has a great deal to do with this since a major facet of Putin's foreign policy is to reintegrate the former Soviet Space into Russia's sphere of influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I don't know much about Ukranian politics. I do know the Ukraine is its own country and is no longer controlled by Russia. Putin doesn't like it when ethnic groups in former soviet satellite countries want to break away... For example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oremoose Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 http://youtu.be/EFS6cP9auDc in other news of revolts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 Why would Putin have anything to do with it? Russia doesn't control the Ukraine anymore. And I left off the most obvious answer... that this east/west struggle in the Ukraine began when the Easterner gov't rejected an EU treaty and instead decided to sign onto an economic treaty with Putin's Russia instead. I don't think Putin's intentions were to destabilize the Ukraine so much as to counterbalance the EU and maintain Russia's sphere of influence. Nevertheless, the issues in the Ukraine can all be traced back to russia and more recently putin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 And I left off the most obvious answer... that this east/west struggle in the Ukraine began when the Easterner gov't rejected an EU treaty and instead decided to sign onto an economic treaty with Putin's Russia instead. I don't think Putin's intentions were to destabilize the Ukraine so much as to counterbalance the EU and maintain Russia's sphere of influence. Nevertheless, the issues in the Ukraine can all be traced back to russia and more recently putin. I wouldn't say all of them but that was certainly the catalyst. Given that you seem to understand what is actually occurring in Ukraine I'm confused where you get the idea that it is really a revolt against socialism and The President is really a crypto-Marxist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I wouldn't say all of them but that was certainly the catalyst. Good point... let me ammend my statement... the reasons why the east and west of Ukraine are fighting each other... nearly all traced back to russia and I'm talking about cumulative causes over the last 100 years, not just putin. what are the reasons the uki's are mad enough to go out in the street and fight? Lots of reasons, not all related to russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 23, 2014 Share Posted February 23, 2014 I'm confused where you get the idea that it is really a revolt against socialism and The President is really a crypto-Marxist. I believe I originally said that socialists have trouble counting votes, referring to both Venezuela and the ukraine, which is true... Are the Uki's revolting against marxis-socialism? To them marxism will be so tied up with Russia that it's hard to say what they are truly acting out against when they tear down a statue of lenin. Is the president a secret marxist? I don't know. He and his boss putin are certainly professional socialists by training, but it's hard to know what's in their head since they currently don't ascribe to any ideology - at least not publicly. All the marxist-socialist governments in the world fell back very quickly onto nationalism at the first bump in the road and now that seems to be all the ex-soviets have left. I'm not sure if the ideology is just suppressed or if it's disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 and my ukranian liturgy today was 2 hours 10 minutes long on account of all the extra memorial prayers that were said for those that died this week. And it was all in ukranian, so although I'm sure the priest had some editorializing to do, I didn't catch any of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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