Mental Illness And God's Plan

[Selah]

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

 

That porksauce is a heartless troll is a fact we've pretty much accepted by now.

 

He thinks mentally ill people are to be treated like wounded animals and avoided. He's also said some awful things about women in the past, and has made some pretty racist comments.

 

Which means he thinks, because I suffer from depression, I am an animal who has no control over anything she does, and I can't function in society. 

 

People like him stigmatize mental illness, and people like him are the reason that those who have mental illness are looked at in such a negative light. 

 

He's just not worth it. 

Edited March 15, 2014 by Selah

[polskieserce]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

Well then don't get married, because the statistics indicate there is every chance that your partner (or you) will suffer some kind of MI at some point.

What are you going to do then, get divorced?

 

In addition, there is every likelihood you are already in relationship with several people who you are unaware have MI.

Because of stigma and unhelpful attitudes most people try to keep it hidden. If I was around you and knew you had this attitude I wouldn't exactly be rushing to tell you.

 

This IMO is no different from saying 'I don't mind being friends with a black person but I wouldn't want to marry one'.

 

None of us knows when we are going to be ill, none of us actively chooses this, and to make a statement saying one would not want to be in a relationship with someone like this indicates a pretty much pre-historic attitude and a lack of understanding as well as compassion.

 

Oh, so you would be in relationship with my friend but not with me.

Gee, thanks for the understanding.

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

Well, ol' polskie has said that before, too, so...

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

That porksauce is a heartless troll is a fact we've pretty much accepted by now.

 

He thinks mentally ill people are to be treated like wounded animals and avoided. He's also said some awful things about women in the past, and has made some pretty racist comments.

 

Which means he thinks, because I suffer from depression, I am an animal who has no control over anything she does, and I can't function in society. 

 

People like him stigmatize mental illness, and people like him are the reason that those who have mental illness are looked at in such a negative light. 

 

He's just not worth it. 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

[Fidei Defensor]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

Love thy neighbor as thyself. It doesn't just mean be nice to them. It means understanding that the human condition encompasses everything that humans experience, including mental illness. We're not defective, we're just like you; the only difference is, we're afflicted by an illness that happens to reside in the brain. If you're going to discount us as unstable, make sure to include heart patients, diabetics, those with cancer, and anyone else with illness. No need to be limited to one particular kind of illness.

Edited March 17, 2014 by tardis ad astra

[Selah]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

 

 

 

Your lack of compassion is what strikes me as the most disturbing. I did not ask for depression, yet you treat me as less than human because I have depression. 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Selah

[OnlySunshine]

Didn't think I would have to get started with this again, but here are my responses.

 

 

There is a huge difference between a person who comes down with a mental illness later on in life and a person who has it early on and it just gets worse from there.  I would not get married to a person with issues that early on because it might just get worse from there.  I'm not saying it's guaranteed to get worse, because it's not.  But there is an elevated level of risk, and I'm not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk.

 

If a person's issues are that mild that I don't notice them, then I'm not really worried about the issue.  I agree that a lot of people try to hide it, but if it's severe enough to interfere with daily life, it usually comes out one way or another.

 

I have said that before, my response is posted in the 2nd quoted reply.

 

What's so pre-historic about my attitude?  My stance is based on several people I have seen in my own life.  It's not based off of views that other people passed on to me.  I have been harmed by people with mental illnesses.  It does not mean that all people with mental illnesses are going to make their spouse's life a living hell.  But there is an elevated level of risk with this group when it comes to relationships and I'm simply not willing to tolerate that elevated level of risk when I can just find a different person and be taking less of a risk.  Even a few family members told me to not even bother if a girl has those types of issues.  Marriage is already a very risky proposition as is.

 

 

Yes I have said that before.  I don't understand why you people make it seem like having physical attraction as a requirement is a sin.  I'm not physically attracted to black girls.  What else do you want me to say?  If you aren't physically attracted to a person, then there are no grounds for a relationship.  I already know someone is going to quote this statement and try to disprove me, but that's just plain ridiculous.  People want to have spouses they are attracted to.  All of my friends date within their own races as well, including my non-white friends.  Everyone in my family expects me to stay within the race as well.  Sure, inter-racial relationships are on the rise, but they are still a minority.

 

 

Before you call a person a troll, you should at least understand what a troll is.  These links should help.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMEe7JqBgvg

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ToLm-uCStY

 

I don't make the statements I do to piss people off and laugh about it.  The things I posted are an accurate reflection of how I truly feel.  I don't think that mentally ill people are wild animals that can't control their actions.  What I think is that mentally ill people are a higher risk group of people.  Some people, such as myself, are more conservative risk takers who simply don't want to gamble more than we have to.

 

I am a critical thinker and I think for myself.  Part of the reason the virgin thread spiraled out of control was that people felt the need to bash me for not falling in line with their ideas on how I should go about relationships.  I look at things in terms of risk/reward analysis.  If I'm getting the tail end of the deal (in any life situation) I'm not afraid to say no way, even if it means going against what everyone else is doing.  People were quick to call me names and ridicule me, but they were not able to back up their arguments with hardcore facts.  And that is precisely why you are resorting to name calling right now....because you can't successfully take me down using facts and logical points.  If my only encounter with a mentally ill person had been seeing one of my friend's distant cousins at  party one time, you could successfully discredit me by saying my experience is too limited with the group.  However, I have extensive experience with this group of people, including a few in my own family.  I have dealt with some pretty nasty stuff from this group of people, and I have seen other people in my life have to put up with the same.  I used my own head to decide for myself, "you know what, it might be a bright idea to keep some space between myself and this group, and make decent mental health a requirement for a relationship".  I'm not going to write the summary for an autobiography, but I have already put up with too much in the past from these people to deal with it anymore.

 

tardis hit the nail on the head.  Just because you don't like the idea of mental disorders because it's risky, it doesn't mean that you won't end up with a so-called risky individual.  You cannot know everything about an individual's life.  There are some things that are best left in the confessional.  If God can heal and forgive, then we are called to do the same.  For whatever reason, some people have mental disorders.  They did not choose these disorders (I know I did not chose mine).   To totally discount ANYONE because of a disorder they weren't able to acquire or get rid of on their own will is illogical.  I cannot believe that one or a few interactions you had with those who had mental illnesses means you won't ever willfully be in a relationship with another person again.  I, personally, would not want to be with someone like yourself who believes himself to be somehow above those who have psychological problems when they didn't have a choice in the matter...

 

One last thing.  True love is about taking risks.  You may completely pass by the person God has chosen you to be with simply because of a medical diagnosis.  You are not above God and are taking serious risks with your vocation.

 

[Lilllabettt]

mmm honestly. what people have as "deal breakers" as far as relationships go is very personal and in my opinion 100% their prerogative.  Attraction/mate selection based on race, religion, height, weight, education, tattoos, health, disability, location, job, even $$$ -- is not a moral question.

 

And honestly ... lifelong mental illness is a serious thing and can have a huge impact on your life with another person. It is not an illegitimate "deal breaker" at all for people who know themselves, what they are prepared to handle, what their experience has been, and realize that it is a deal breaker. I personally would not hitch my wagon with someone who is in recovery from addiction. Realizing that would mean writing off some amazing people - I know that for a whole host of reasons it would be unwise for me to be with a person with that background. So - sorry amazing people who happen to be in recovery. We will not be getting together.

 

I personally have been dumped for being an infertile myrtle. Also for not being of Italian descent. I am what I am, and it is what it is. I do not want to date people who can't accept not having bio kids. Also not interested in guys who only want Italian girlfriends. So it works out! And I don't need to call these guys shallow or resent them for having their deal breakers. Because i have my deal breakers. And if you're honest with yourself you'll admit you have them, too.

 

I can't say not to take rejection personally - cuz it is personal. But you don't have to take it as invalidating you as a person, just because not everyone out there thinks you would be a great spouse for them. The truth is you would not be a great spouse for everyone. I myself would not be a great spouse for most people. Which is fine! Because I do not want to be with folks I would not be a great spouse for!

 

(disclaimer: I am not on the market. thoughts based on previous experience.)

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[Lilllabettt]

One last thing.  True love is about taking risks.  You may completely pass by the person God has chosen you to be with simply because of a medical diagnosis.  You are not above God and are taking serious risks with your vocation.
 

 

You are right that love and marriage are risky ventures requiring tons of courage + grace.

 

But the idea that God has picked out a "soul mate" that each person is "supposed" to marry and that we might miss "the one" is really fuzzy spirituality. By fuzzy, I mean rotten and growing mold.
 

Choosing a spouse is not shopping. Right. We don't want to close doors based on mere preference or whim. But I think its totally reasonable for someone to discern that they are not called to marriage with someone who is mentally ill. Or obese. Or who did not graduate college. Or can't have kids. Or is black, or white or asian. Don't make them racist or shallow or whatever.  If you are just not attracted in the least to black guys, guess what, probably best for you to not date black guys! Probably best for black guys that you not try to date them! Yay, decisions! Simple as that.

[CatherineM]

My deal breaker would have been smoking. 85% of Schizophrenics smoke because nicotine helps their cognitive functioning. If Austin hadn't been in the 15%, no way I'd have married him.

[OnlySunshine]

You are right that love and marriage are risky ventures requiring tons of courage + grace.

 

But the idea that God has picked out a "soul mate" that each person is "supposed" to marry and that we might miss "the one" is really fuzzy spirituality. By fuzzy, I mean rotten and growing mold.
 

Choosing a spouse is not shopping. Right. We don't want to close doors based on mere preference or whim. But I think its totally reasonable for someone to discern that they are not called to marriage with someone who is mentally ill. Or obese. Or who did not graduate college. Or can't have kids. Or is black, or white or asian. Don't make them racist or shallow or whatever.  If you are just not attracted in the least to black guys, guess what, probably best for you to not date black guys! Probably best for black guys that you not try to date them! Yay, decisions! Simple as that.

 

I don't believe in predestination, but I do believe that discernment of marriage, just like any other vocation, is necessary.  Perhaps I wrote my statement wrong. 

 

Mental illness encompasses a wide range of disorders from clinical depression all the way up to schizophrenia.  I can understand someone not wanting to be with someone who was diagnosed with a severe psychological illness who refuses to seek treatment.  However, if that person is seeking treatment and is working to take care of themselves, why should that person be refused simply because of a medical diagnosis?  This is what I have a problem with.  Maybe I'm taking it personal.  I have a habit of doing that.  But I also know many people with mental illnesses like myself who have recovered and I didn't know they had a problem until they told me.  I feel it's a major problem to discount everyone with a mental illness because of personal experience.  No two people are alike and no two illnesses are alike.  There are varying degrees in every illness.  What might be mild for someone might be severe for someone else.

[Lilllabettt]

  I can understand someone not wanting to be with someone who was diagnosed with a severe psychological illness who refuses to seek treatment.  However, if that person is seeking treatment and is working to take care of themselves, why should that person be refused simply because of a medical diagnosis?  This is what I have a problem with. 

 

 

Well, speaking from my perspective re: deal breakers, I know that most people who have addictions will relapse over the course of their lives. It has nothing to do with whether they are good people, or striving for holiness, or working to take care of themselves.

 

I personally know that I am not in an emotional, psychological, financial, etc. place where I could responsibly put myself in a relationship that I know would most likely entail dealing with relapse. And honestly, I put lifelong mental illness in the same category.

 

There are mentally ill people who understand how difficult is and for that reason will only date people who have strong mental health. They feel it would be irresponsible to be involved in a "double dip" situation.

 

 

 

[Fidei Defensor]

Well, speaking from my perspective re: deal breakers, I know that most people who have addictions will relapse over the course of their lives. It has nothing to do with whether they are good people, or striving for holiness, or working to take care of themselves.

 

I personally know that I am not in an emotional, psychological, financial, etc. place where I could responsibly put myself in a relationship that I know would most likely entail dealing with relapse. And honestly, I put lifelong mental illness in the same category.

 

There are mentally ill people who understand how difficult is and for that reason will only date people who have strong mental health. They feel it would be irresponsible to be involved in a "double dip" situation.

You have a respectful view and a reasonable argument.

[OnlySunshine]

Well, speaking from my perspective re: deal breakers, I know that most people who have addictions will relapse over the course of their lives. It has nothing to do with whether they are good people, or striving for holiness, or working to take care of themselves.

 

I personally know that I am not in an emotional, psychological, financial, etc. place where I could responsibly put myself in a relationship that I know would most likely entail dealing with relapse. And honestly, I put lifelong mental illness in the same category.

 

There are mentally ill people who understand how difficult is and for that reason will only date people who have strong mental health. They feel it would be irresponsible to be involved in a "double dip" situation.

 

I never really thought of deal breakers that much.  I've never been in a serious romantic relationship though I have limited experience with dating.  I do, on the other hand, have an uncle who is married to someone who is basically a recluse and a hoarder.  Two children resulted from this marriage and it's very unhealthy.  She refuses to seek treatment because she doesn't believe she has a problem (kinda like "crazy people don't know they're crazy").  The kids have gotten the worst out of the deal because she home-schools them and so they've had limited interaction with the outside world.  The oldest is a high school graduate and still hasn't gone to college because his mother is very overprotective and basically refuses to let the kids grow up.  She still spoon feeds the youngest even though she is 13.  It's very sick.  I don't even know my cousins even though they live less than 5 miles away.  I refuse to step foot in that house.  That's an example of someone I could see not being married to because it's very detrimental.

 

But I also have a cousin who has successfully dealt with lifelong depression and is still on medication.  She's raising 4 kids with a loving husband who she's been married to for 11 years.  Their marriage is like any other normal marriage in that they've had their ups and downs but they still love each other very much.

 

I guess you could say I just don't understand wanting to stay away from everyone who has a lifelong mental illness when there are many success stories...

[IcePrincessKRS]

mmm honestly. what people have as "deal breakers" as far as relationships go is very personal and in my opinion 100% their prerogative.  Attraction/mate selection based on race, religion, height, weight, education, tattoos, health, disability, location, job, even $$$ -- is not a moral question.

 

 

Generally speaking I agree with you. I just find it troublesome that some people are so completely closed off so as to not even admit the remote possibility of falling in love with someone that might not fall in line with their preconceived notion of the perfect mate. In my mind "I'm generally not attracted to black men" is very diferent from "I would never date a black man because he's black."

 

 

This is entirely off topic, though, so I'll stop there.

[Lilllabettt]

Generally speaking I agree with you. I just find it troublesome that some people are so completely closed off so as to not even admit the remote possibility of falling in love with someone that might not fall in line with their preconceived notion of the perfect mate. In my mind "I'm generally not attracted to black men" is very diferent from "I would never date a black man because he's black."

 

 

This is entirely off topic, though, so I'll stop there.

 

I feel you. Although I don't even begrudge people who only want to date within their own race/ethnicity/whatever group and don't see a future where they will date so-and-so because of the fact that so and so is not a member of that group.

 

I know Jewish guys who will not date non-Jews because they are not of the Jewish race, and they feel an obligation to rebuild the Jewish race post-Holocaust.  I respect that.  I have had black chicks in my circle of friends communicate their discomfort with the idea that me, a white girl, might date one of our mutual black guy friends. Their explanation being that they felt black men and women have a "responsibility" to each other. That is something I don't quite understand, but I just add it to the list of things that I, as a white girl, do not understand.

 

It's not necessarily a choice based on hatred or disgust, is what I'm saying.
 

[PhuturePriest]

I feel you. Although I don't even begrudge people who only want to date within their own race/ethnicity/whatever group and don't see a future where they will date so-and-so because of the fact that so and so is not a member of that group.

 

I know Jewish guys who will not date non-Jews because they are not of the Jewish race, and they feel an obligation to rebuild the Jewish race post-Holocaust.  I respect that.  I have had black chicks in my circle of friends communicate their discomfort with the idea that me, a white girl, might date one of our mutual black guy friends. Their explanation being that they felt black men and women have a "responsibility" to each other. That is something I don't quite understand, but I just add it to the list of things that I, as a white girl, do not understand.

 

It's not necessarily a choice based on hatred or disgust, is what I'm saying.
 

 

Being on the shorter side of most men, I used to be angry about how a lot of women won't date a short guy. But then I realized that it's not their fault if they simply don't find short guys attractive (Though I do question how a person is suddenly not physically attractive due to height. An attractive face is attractive regardless of height, in my mind), just like it's not my fault that I honestly don't find girls whose hair isn't at least slightly beyond shoulder length attractive. Long hair is so important that if a girl cuts her hair short, even if I thought she was the most beautiful girl in the world when she had long hair, I just honestly don't find her attractive anymore (Emma Watson immediately comes to mind). I wish I wasn't that way, but I was always taught as a small child that girls have long hair and that's how it is and that's what attractive, and that girls with short hair aren't attractive, so as a result those are my preferences. If a girl prefers her hair long, then that's great. But it's not for me. Just like how there's nothing wrong with me being short, but it's simply not for a lot of girls.

[polskieserce]

Love thy neighbor as thyself. It doesn't just mean be nice to them. It means understanding that the human condition encompasses everything that humans experience, including mental illness. We're not defective, we're just like you; the only difference is, we're afflicted by an illness that happens to reside in the brain. If you're going to discount us as unstable, make sure to include heart patients, diabetics, those with cancer, and anyone else with illness. No need to be limited to one particular kind of illness.

 

Your lack of compassion is what strikes me as the most disturbing. I did not ask for depression, yet you treat me as less than human because I have depression. 

 

You are making wrongful assumptions that I have no compassion for the group.  I do sympathize with their struggles, but that does not mean I'm going to sign a contract saying that I'm legally bound to a person with those problems.  I have the right to pick a person I like as a spouse.  I have been putting up with the group for as long as I have been alive and I HATE it.  I know what I am able to handle and what I'm not.  Marriage with a person that has those types of problems is beyond what I can handle for a lifetime.

 

tardis hit the nail on the head.  Just because you don't like the idea of mental disorders because it's risky, it doesn't mean that you won't end up with a so-called risky individual.  You cannot know everything about an individual's life.  There are some things that are best left in the confessional.  If God can heal and forgive, then we are called to do the same.  For whatever reason, some people have mental disorders.  They did not choose these disorders (I know I did not chose mine).   To totally discount ANYONE because of a disorder they weren't able to acquire or get rid of on their own will is illogical.  I cannot believe that one or a few interactions you had with those who had mental illnesses means you won't ever willfully be in a relationship with another person again.  I, personally, would not want to be with someone like yourself who believes himself to be somehow above those who have psychological problems when they didn't have a choice in the matter...

 

One last thing.  True love is about taking risks.  You may completely pass by the person God has chosen you to be with simply because of a medical diagnosis.  You are not above God and are taking serious risks with your vocation.

 

 

If a person has mental health issues that are causing problems in day to day life, then it will usually come out in one way or another.  I disagree that some things should be left in the confessional.  If you are in a relationship, everything should be out on the table.  It people were more skilled in the art of honesty, this world would have fewer problems.  Excluding the group from the list of marriage candidates is not illogical when you look at it from a risk-reward manner.  It's risky enough playing russian roulette with one round in the cylinder.  There's no reason to play russian roulette with 2 rounds in the cylinder if you don't have to.

 

mmm honestly. what people have as "deal breakers" as far as relationships go is very personal and in my opinion 100% their prerogative.  Attraction/mate selection based on race, religion, height, weight, education, tattoos, health, disability, location, job, even $$$ -- is not a moral question.

 

And honestly ... lifelong mental illness is a serious thing and can have a huge impact on your life with another person. It is not an illegitimate "deal breaker" at all for people who know themselves, what they are prepared to handle, what their experience has been, and realize that it is a deal breaker. I personally would not hitch my wagon with someone who is in recovery from addiction. Realizing that would mean writing off some amazing people - I know that for a whole host of reasons it would be unwise for me to be with a person with that background. So - sorry amazing people who happen to be in recovery. We will not be getting together.

 

Bingo, influx of logic just came in.

 

You are right that love and marriage are risky ventures requiring tons of courage + grace.

 

But the idea that God has picked out a "soul mate" that each person is "supposed" to marry and that we might miss "the one" is really fuzzy spirituality. By fuzzy, I mean rotten and growing mold.
 

Choosing a spouse is not shopping. Right. We don't want to close doors based on mere preference or whim. But I think its totally reasonable for someone to discern that they are not called to marriage with someone who is mentally ill. Or obese. Or who did not graduate college. Or can't have kids. Or is black, or white or asian. Don't make them racist or shallow or whatever.  If you are just not attracted in the least to black guys, guess what, probably best for you to not date black guys! Probably best for black guys that you not try to date them! Yay, decisions! Simple as that.

 

+1

 

I don't believe in predestination, but I do believe that discernment of marriage, just like any other vocation, is necessary.  Perhaps I wrote my statement wrong. 

 

Mental illness encompasses a wide range of disorders from clinical depression all the way up to schizophrenia.  I can understand someone not wanting to be with someone who was diagnosed with a severe psychological illness who refuses to seek treatment.  However, if that person is seeking treatment and is working to take care of themselves, why should that person be refused simply because of a medical diagnosis?  This is what I have a problem with.  Maybe I'm taking it personal.  I have a habit of doing that.  But I also know many people with mental illnesses like myself who have recovered and I didn't know they had a problem until they told me.  I feel it's a major problem to discount everyone with a mental illness because of personal experience.  No two people are alike and no two illnesses are alike.  There are varying degrees in every illness.  What might be mild for someone might be severe for someone else.

 

Because those people can relapse, that's why.  I agree that there are a lot of people with mental illnesses.  A decent chunk of people with illnesses are never diagnosed because their issue is that mild that they don't need to come in for it.  I am not concerned about those people.  But if a person is severe enough that they need to be medicated for it, then I'm honestly scared (I mean that genuinely, not as a hyperbole).  I agree that there is a lot of variability, but why take more risk?  Car insurance companies make higher risk drivers pay more for coverage.  Does that mean every single one of those drivers who is deemed higher risk will have an accident?  No, but as a collective group they cause more problems.  Same concept applies here.  Not trying to be heartless, but I have a very pragmatic way of thinking.

 

Well, speaking from my perspective re: deal breakers, I know that most people who have addictions will relapse over the course of their lives. It has nothing to do with whether they are good people, or striving for holiness, or working to take care of themselves.

 

I personally know that I am not in an emotional, psychological, financial, etc. place where I could responsibly put myself in a relationship that I know would most likely entail dealing with relapse. And honestly, I put lifelong mental illness in the same category.

 

There are mentally ill people who understand how difficult is and for that reason will only date people who have strong mental health. They feel it would be irresponsible to be involved in a "double dip" situation.

 

+1

 

I never really thought of deal breakers that much.  I've never been in a serious romantic relationship though I have limited experience with dating.  I do, on the other hand, have an uncle who is married to someone who is basically a recluse and a hoarder.  Two children resulted from this marriage and it's very unhealthy.  She refuses to seek treatment because she doesn't believe she has a problem (kinda like "crazy people don't know they're crazy").  The kids have gotten the worst out of the deal because she home-schools them and so they've had limited interaction with the outside world.  The oldest is a high school graduate and still hasn't gone to college because his mother is very overprotective and basically refuses to let the kids grow up.  She still spoon feeds the youngest even though she is 13.  It's very sick.  I don't even know my cousins even though they live less than 5 miles away.  I refuse to step foot in that house.  That's an example of someone I could see not being married to because it's very detrimental.

 

But I also have a cousin who has successfully dealt with lifelong depression and is still on medication.  She's raising 4 kids with a loving husband who she's been married to for 11 years.  Their marriage is like any other normal marriage in that they've had their ups and downs but they still love each other very much.

 

I guess you could say I just don't understand wanting to stay away from everyone who has a lifelong mental illness when there are many success stories...

 

Russian roulette with 2 rounds in the cylinder instead of 1, that's as simple as I can possibly make my point of view.

 

Generally speaking I agree with you. I just find it troublesome that some people are so completely closed off so as to not even admit the remote possibility of falling in love with someone that might not fall in line with their preconceived notion of the perfect mate. In my mind "I'm generally not attracted to black men" is very diferent from "I would never date a black man because he's black."

 

 

This is entirely off topic, though, so I'll stop there.

 

That has to do with the degree to which someone wants certain traits.  I have been alive for quite a while and I have met many black people.  If after all that time I have not seen one black girl I was attracted to, then I think it's safe to say it's time to close the door.

 

[Fidei Defensor]

You are making wrongful assumptions that I have no compassion for the group.  I do sympathize with their struggles, but that does not mean I'm going to sign a contract saying that I'm legally bound to a person with those problems.  I have the right to pick a person I like as a spouse.  I have been putting up with the group for as long as I have been alive and I HATE it.  I know what I am able to handle and what I'm not.  Marriage with a person that has those types of problems is beyond what I can handle for a lifetime.

 

It was an assumption that may have been wrong, but was gathered from what you said. I apologize and meant no offense. You do have the right to choose who you'd like as a spouse, but you were coming off as condescending and dismissive of those with mental illness.

[PhuturePriest]

This is one of my favorite book authors and Youtubers, John Green, discussing his experiences with clinical depression, all the while playing FIFA. It's a win-win all around.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRJnSnsutBs

[KnightofChrist]

Your lack of compassion is what strikes me as the most disturbing. I did not ask for depression, yet you treat me as less than human because I have depression.

This isn't a marriage proposal or anything like that, but it wouldn't stop me, I think you're fantastic, brilliant, and fun even with the crosses you bare. You are a wonderful human being. I've suffered many of the same crosses, lived with family and had friends with similar crosses, and was a caretaker for my grandmother who suffered an extreme case of mental illness. In all cases I've experienced I seen many times how they were treated as less than human or subhuman. What seems to common factor in the people who treat their fellow human beings this way is ignorance, fear, and/or selfishness. Edited March 17, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[Selah]

You are making wrongful assumptions that I have no compassion for the group.  I do sympathize with their struggles, but that does not mean I'm going to sign a contract saying that I'm legally bound to a person with those problems.  I have the right to pick a person I like as a spouse.  I have been putting up with the group for as long as I have been alive and I HATE it.  I know what I am able to handle and what I'm not.  Marriage with a person that has those types of problems is beyond what I can handle for a lifetime.

 

 

All right. Fair enough. But can you please try to understand how insensitive you come across? 

 

I've struggled with this all my life. If you can't handle it, imagine how I must feel. Self harm isn't something I am proud of. Suicide attempts, panic attacks, aren't something I am proud of. Can you please try to understand what it is like for a person like me? Yes, I struggle; but I'm smart, I have a job and a wonderfully kind boss. I am on my way to getting my B.A.S. and would like to go off to law school. I make the dean's list. I work hard and love people more than I probably should. 

 

You comparing being with a person with mental health problems to russian roulette...what can I even say to that? If you can't handle it, I understand, but could you at least choose your words wisely? 

 

I'm a person. I'm not a "group" or a "statistic."

 

But I can't make you see that. So..

Edited March 18, 2014 by Selah