Creation And Science

[mortify ii]

Yes, mutations are random. But remember that bad ones result in mortality and good ones result in a better chance of survival and thus producing offspring. That is how a trait is "selected" for — it is passed along only if the organism lives long enough to reproduce.

 

Yes of course, natural selection acts as a filter, so to speak, removing detrimental mutations, but again there is no guiding principle. Everything is a fortunate accident. The question is, how many fortunate accidents is a reasonable person willing to accept?

[mortify ii]

Oh, I'm aware of what the scientific community generally thinks of religion. Regardless, God drew me back to himself and turned me from my atheistic ways. 

 

I'm curious to understand why! Not that I'm unhappy of course :) It's just in a materialist worldview God really is an unnecessary hypothesis. The universe is self sufficient and evolution explains everything. Even you seem to believe evolution without God's guidance can explain the complexity of life from our common ancestor the primordial ooze, and yet, you believe God is involved in a superfluous way. Why?

[mortify ii]

Going back to the principle of looking at something holistically. I've always been fascinated by a notorious avian brood parasite named the cuckoo bird. It's named a brood parasite because it lays its eggs in another species of birds nest, when the baby cuckoo hatches it then pushes the other eggs out of the nest, and host parents end up nurturing a bird of another species! Now the fascinating thing about this is that there are multiple factors involved that to make such an evolutionary risky practice successful. Despite being larger than the common host species the eggs of the cuckoo are smaller, the development is faster and so the cuckoo chick hatches earlier, and of course the chick is born with the innate instinct to knock the host eggs out of the nest. Now just stop to imagine what a dangerous practice this is, and for it to be successful *all* components from the physiological to behavioral must be present. How is it that an unguided process which evolution obviously is, could explain such a thing? And of course, there are countless examples of this. I'm sorry folks, but genetic variation, natural selection, and reproduction can NOT explain everything... well, at least not to a reasonable person!

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Mb0GOITRUU[/youtube]

 

Btw... I just love this dude in the youtube video!

[Fidei Defensor]

I'm curious to understand why! Not that I'm unhappy of course :) It's just in a materialist worldview God really is an unnecessary hypothesis. The universe is self sufficient and evolution explains everything. Even you seem to believe evolution without God's guidance can explain the complexity of life from our common ancestor the primordial ooze, and yet, you believe God is involved in a superfluous way. Why?

Through the intercession of St. Therese, I was drawn back to the Church. I was a very staunch atheist but I did a prayer "experiment" to see if I could receive a sign by praying to St. Therese, and I did. By the grace of God, she gave me a very obvious sign and helped to change my heart.

 

Being an atheist is quite lonely. I am happy to believe that I am not alone in the universe and that there is indeed a loving God who concerns himself with my existence.

[mortify ii]

Through the intercession of St. Therese, I was drawn back to the Church. I was a very staunch atheist but I did a prayer "experiment" to see if I could receive a sign by praying to St. Therese, and I did. By the grace of God, she gave me a very obvious sign and helped to change my heart.

 

Being an atheist is quite lonely. I am happy to believe that I am not alone in the universe and that there is indeed a loving God who concerns himself with my existence.

 

Did you say "signs"?

 

Reminds me of this scene:

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQEXW0lVts[/youtube]

 

 

You unfortunately do not realize that your worldview is based on *philosophical* foundations that are materialistic and naturalistic (by this I mean reducing everything to mater and rejecting the supra+natural). Again I emphasize science does not support a materialist and naturalistic worldview, these are philosophical assumptions, and the scientific process is in turn absorbed into this worldview.

 

I hope you stay, but I would not be surprised if you relapse back into atheism. 

[Fidei Defensor]

Did you say "signs"?

 

Reminds me of this scene:

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtQEXW0lVts[/youtube]

 

 

You unfortunately do not realize that your worldview is based on *philosophical* foundations that are materialistic and naturalistic (by this I mean reducing everything to mater and rejecting the supra+natural). Again I emphasize science does not support a materialist and naturalistic worldview, these are philosophical assumptions, and the scientific process is in turn absorbed into this worldview.

 

I hope you stay, but I would not be surprised if you relapse back into atheism. 

I'm in the process of reconciling my scientific worldview with my faith in the Lord. I would appreciate prayers. I used to be quite devout until I reached my angry rebellious years. I have since returned. Have a little faith ;)

[mortify ii]

I'm in the process of reconciling my scientific worldview with my faith in the Lord. I would appreciate prayers. I used to be quite devout until I reached my angry rebellious years. I have since returned. Have a little faith ;)

 

Interestingly the problems with neo-darwinism is well known. When I was still in highschool I found an old book in the used books section of Barnes and Noble titled The Metaphysics of Science, by Errol E Harris, a philosopher of science in South Africa. Even though he was not against evolution, he did a good job of outlining many of its problems and sever flaws, and this is obviously well before any "intelligent design" movement or what not. 

[mortify ii]

Wolfgang Smith is rather interesting, you should look him up.

[Guest]

Even atheist agree that there is no way everything could happen by chanch......The odds are so slim they are unrealistic.......That's why they think there are infinite amounts of other universes out there and this one was the lucky one that was fine tuned for life....

[mortify ii]

Even atheist agree that there is no way everything could happen by chanch......The odds are so slim they are unrealistic.......That's why they think there are infinite amounts of other universes out there and this one was the lucky one that was fine tuned for life....

 

Yea, pretty stupid. 

[Guest]

It's so obvious God exist...

[mortify ii]

Even atheist agree that there is no way everything could happen by chanch......The odds are so slim they are unrealistic.......That's why they think there are infinite amounts of other universes out there and this one was the lucky one that was fine tuned for life....

 

This is exactly what you're talking about:

 

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4E_bT4ecgk[/youtube]

 

 

I mean is this "science"? Is this being objective? Having to create an unobservant hypothesis (multiverse) in order to explain away the fine-tuning (i.e. evident design) of the universe to maintain an atheistic worldview?

 

See 4:05

Edited April 26, 2014 by mortify ii

[Guest]

And evennnnn if the multiverse theory is true it still doesn't eliminate God from the picture.....

Edited April 26, 2014 by Guest

[mortify ii]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ncsuh_5l6Hw[/youtube]

[Fidei Defensor]

What I don't understand is why you find it so threatening that the materials of the world which God created could have been used to further create the diversity we see.  It honestly sounds like fear of something you don't understand, because you never actually answered my question about what you studied. As far as I know, all you know about evolution is what you learned in high school.

[mortify ii]

What I don't understand is why you find it so threatening that the materials of the world which God created could have been used to further create the diversity we see.  It honestly sounds like fear of something you don't understand, because you never actually answered my question about what you studied. As far as I know, all you know about evolution is what you learned in high school.

 

I don't understand why you think I'm threatened by it, I just think it's absurd, but it does boggle my mind how people like you have no qualms about it. Maybe it's following the same old paradigm but replacing priests with scientists and force feeding materialist dogma at an early age until it it almost seems like it's intuitive. 

[Fidei Defensor]

I don't understand why you think I'm threatened by it, I just think it's absurd, but it does boggle my mind how people like you have no qualms about it. Maybe it's following the same old paradigm but replacing priests with scientists and force feeding materialist dogma at an early age until it it almost seems like it's intuitive. 

It seems you are threatened by it because you won't admit that it is compatible with the faith. I understand your qualms about pure materialism. But God works in mysterious ways and gave us minds to study his creation—what authority do you have to say that the huge body of work behind evolutionary theory is wrong? Just a "funny feeling?"

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Interestingly the problems with neo-darwinism is well known. When I was still in highschool I found an old book in the used books section of Barnes and Noble titled The Metaphysics of Science, by Errol E Harris, a philosopher of science in South Africa. Even though he was not against evolution, he did a good job of outlining many of its problems and sever flaws, and this is obviously well before any "intelligent design" movement or what not. 

 

 

Did you miss the "PLEASE PRAY FOR ME BIT?" Get to it than, if your faith is as holy as you presume?

[mortify ii]

It seems you are threatened by it because you won't admit that it is compatible with the faith. I understand your qualms about pure materialism. But God works in mysterious ways and gave us minds to study his creation—"

 

Materialism and naturalism are diametrically opposed to Catholic metaphysics. Again, that many Westerners don't even see this basic point is probably a result of good indoctrination. 

 

what authority do you have to say that the huge body of work behind evolutionary theory is wrong? Just a "funny feeling?

 

 

Who gave you the authority to amend the huge body of work behind evolutionary theory and say that God guides it? 

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I don't understand why you think I'm threatened by it, I just think it's absurd, but it does boggle my mind how people like you have no qualms about it. Maybe it's following the same old paradigm but replacing priests with scientists and force feeding materialist dogma at an early age until it it almost seems like it's intuitive. 

 

People like you? Stop classing brother, there is only one tardis, he is unique in everyway, although there may be some similarities with other human beings. This is what seperates us from the animals, we are unique and each one individually crafted from our D.N.A and all D.N.A is different to varying degrees of the human species, but the animals well, do the math?

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye