Worst Presidents?

[popestpiusx]

It's a hard choice. Vote based on public/political policies, as opposed to their personal morality. I say this only because if we are voting on personal morality this would be a boring poll. It would be far to obvious. I am not implying that the personal morality issue should not play in to an election. It most definately should. It's just not the object of this poll. I will wait to vote until later.

[homeschoolmom]

What? no LBJ? Hmmm....

[Dave]

I can't believe there are those who would venture to say that George W. Bush is a worse president than Jimmy Carter. Carter wasn't a competent president, although I was too young to remember it. But those of y'all who are old enough to remember him should know what I mean!

Of course, to me Bill Clinton is just as bad if not worse. However, I could only vote for one.

Edited June 7, 2004 by Dave

[Circle_Master]

I admire President Bush very much for his integrity in office. I'm not sure how anyone can say Clinton was a better president if you look at what they did in office, not at what happened externally to affect their careers.

I'd be scared to death to imagine what Clinton would have done in response to 9/11.

And yeah, Carter was a putz. I think most people voting have no idea of most of these presidents.

(fyi, I didn't vote for clinton or bush, I picked kennedy because of the womanizer, drunkard, and druggy that he was)

[Mickey's_Girl]

I voted for Andrew Jackson, because of the way he treated the Indians. Grr.

However, I didn't really notice Jimmy Carter until after I'd voted. He was a good man, but really very ineffective on both domestic and foreign policy fronts. It's unfortunate that strong character doesn't always translate into good policy.

MG

[Ash Wednesday]

I would have voted for LBJ if he was on there.

[ironmonk]

Anyone who would say that G.W. Bush is the worst president hasn't been alive long or haven't paid antention the detail of all the others listed. I voted for Kennady... because he almost started WWIII with the Cuban Missle Crisis, because of Marilynn Monroe, and all the other major mess ups that I can't remember from American History class in HS... After learning about the man, I could not believe the way people talked so highly of him. My guess is only because he was killed.

G.W. Bush is a great pres. and is equal to Reagen for integrity, honor, policy, etc...

For this election, any Catholic who thinks that they would vote for kerry or against Bush should really study our faith, then study the policies from both people from their own websites, and news reports. The only logical Catholic answer is Bush.

Here are a few articles about both men: [url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=10"]http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/forum.asp?FORUM_ID=10[/url]


Those who would vote for kerry should know that they would be going against the teachings of the Church. If someone does not believe me, do the research below:

[url="http://www.moraltruth.com/mtbbs/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=164"]THE DUTIES OF CATHOLIC POLITICIANS AND VOTERS (from a Bishop) [/url]

[url="http://www.catholic.com/library/voters_guide.asp"]Catholic Voter's Guide from Catholic.com[/url]

[url="http://www.usccb.org/faithfulcitizenship/bishopStatement.html"]A Catholic Call to Political Responsibility - US Conference of Catholic Bishops[/url]


To deny the Church is to reject the leaders that Christ appointed. To reject the ones sent by Christ is to reject Christ (St. Luke 10:16).

If someone still rejects the teaching of the Church, then for your own salvation, you should not be in it.

Christ will spit out the lukewarm.

God Bless,
ironmonk

[crusader1234]

I dont think that Dubya is even close to as great as Reagan. Then again I am Canadian so I tend to be biased to the Presidents that get along with us the best.

[Iacobus]

I voted Bush because of his forgein policy views and his domosmitic views. However in hindsight I should have voted for either Abe or Jackson. Both defefed the USSC when the ruling where not in their favor (Worchester v. Gorogia and Ex Parte Milligan). Plus Abe did a lot of bad stuff like supsending Haboues Corpus and other things. Jackson was the 1st pres to, as my denist says, "have any real balls." But Trail of Tears is one example. But he did avoiding having to invade S.C.

I guess it is mainly a toss up for me between (as a AP brat) Abe and Jackson (maybe Andrew Johnson, maybe) and as as current events brat of Bush.

[Iacobus]

[quote name='ironmonk' date='Jun 7 2004, 01:57 PM'] Anyone who would say that G.W. Bush is the worst president hasn't been alive long or haven't paid antention the detail of all the others listed. I voted for Kennady... because he almost started WWIII with the Cuban Missle Crisis, because of Marilynn Monroe, and all the other major mess ups that I can't remember from American History class in HS... After learning about the man, I could not believe the way people talked so highly of him. My guess is only because he was killed.

G.W. Bush is a great pres. and is equal to Reagen for integrity, honor, policy, etc... [/quote]
Marilynn Monroe was not a policy issue.

The Cuban Crisis was/is consdiered a GREAT sucess of US dipolomicy. Moreover, JFK responded to it. He did not almost start a war. The ones who almost started a war put missles there.

Other big JFK things.... Bay of Pigs. Big failure. Plan was out of the Ike White House. JFK took FULL respoibly for it. Something many leaders won't do.


G.W. Bush is a great pres. and is equal to Reagen for integrity, honor, policy, etc...

integrity, honor are not policiy statments.

The Regan tax cuts really hurt a lot of people. Iran Contra ring a bell?

And armming Bin Laden, Saddam, and the Tailbain just because they were anti USSR?

Lets not hijack this thread into Kerry v. Bush. It is "wosrt pres policy" not "Who are you voting for."

[crusader1234]

Iacobus, good point(s)

I voted for Bush.

Outside of Abortion, theres not much I agree with in regards to him. Especially considering foreign policy, which has become a complete disaster.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Ash Wednesday' date='Jun 7 2004, 12:52 PM'] I would have voted for LBJ if he was on there. [/quote]
yeah. me too.

[Iacobus]

I might have voted for LBJ for escalinting Nam but Nixion did that a bit too but than he got us out. So not sure.

What are other reasons for not liking LBJ? (After JFK and before Regan my knowadlge is mush. :shame:)

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='crusader1234' date='Jun 7 2004, 01:05 PM'] I dont think that Dubya is even close to as great as Reagan. Then again I am Canadian so I tend to be biased to the Presidents that get along with us the best. [/quote]
This is a really fascinating thread. As I mentioned in an Open Mic post about Reagan, I'm amazed at how public opinion toward him has shifted since his time in office. There were LOTS of people who HATED the man.

I don't mean disagreed with policy. I mean hated, with a visceral dislike. It was like a knee-jerk reaction. I can't tell you how many times the phrase "that ACTOR" was used, always in an incredibly condescending way. As if actors were stupider than anyone else.

Of course there were many, many people who loved him. My parents did. They were HUGE Reaganites. And contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, many people were *helped* by his economic policies. My family was. We went from poverty to middle-class during the Reagan years.

My point is this: even though I've got some issues with Bush, I don't think there's any way we can judge his presidency (for good or ill) at this point. Reagan was a far smoother communicator than W., but people derided his intelligence and his policies AT LEAST as much as they do W. I'm old enough to remember it.

These are troubled times we live in, and we are just too close to it to see how history will judge. We have to do the best we can with what we know.

And by the way: I, too, am less than impressed with LBJ.

MG

[Mickey's_Girl]

LBJ had some good ideas, I think (the Great Society) but they fell apart in execution. As far as I understand the set-up of welfare at the time, it seemed almost doomed to failure. It also seems like it was racist under the guise of NOT being racist...but that's only a feeling I have.

That's one of the major ones...other voices?

Mg

[homeschoolmom]

I think the War on Poverty was a mess.

[Azriel]

[quote name='Mickey's_Girl' date='Jun 7 2004, 01:41 PM'] This is a really fascinating thread. As I mentioned in an Open Mic post about Reagan, I'm amazed at how public opinion toward him has shifted since his time in office. There were LOTS of people who HATED the man.

I don't mean disagreed with policy. I mean hated, with a visceral dislike. It was like a knee-jerk reaction. I can't tell you how many times the phrase "that ACTOR" was used, always in an incredibly condescending way. As if actors were stupider than anyone else.

Of course there were many, many people who loved him. My parents did. They were HUGE Reaganites. And contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, many people were *helped* by his economic policies. My family was. We went from poverty to middle-class during the Reagan years.

My point is this: even though I've got some issues with Bush, I don't think there's any way we can judge his presidency (for good or ill) at this point. Reagan was a far smoother communicator than W., but people derided his intelligence and his policies AT LEAST as much as they do W. I'm old enough to remember it.

These are troubled times we live in, and we are just too close to it to see how history will judge. We have to do the best we can with what we know.

And by the way: I, too, am less than impressed with LBJ.

MG [/quote]
Yup ... and while I don't hate Regan - my family went from middle class to poverty - so my parents have an intense dislike for the man - though they do not "hate" him. And don't even start on me about how my parents were to blame for our economic status. Trust me on this one, they worked hard. But when the jobs aren't there, they aren't there.

As far as Carter - as a president he wasn't great. But, I truly believe the history will recall him as a remarkable ex-president. He's done so much out of office.

[homeschoolmom]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Jun 7 2004, 02:08 PM'] As far as Carter - as a president he wasn't great.  But, I truly believe the history will recall him as a remarkable ex-president.  He's done so much out of office. [/quote]
Definately Carter has been a better ex-pres than President-- Habitat for Humanity etc. Frankly, I don't think anyone could have done much with the late '70s... what a mess...

[Azriel]

[quote name='homeschoolmom' date='Jun 7 2004, 02:14 PM'] Definately Carter has been a better ex-pres than President-- Habbit for Humanity etc. Frankly, I don't think anyone could have done much with the late '70s... what a mess... [/quote]
Amen. Hard to say that the man was a bad president when he inherited such a mess.

[Mickey's_Girl]

[quote name='Azriel' date='Jun 7 2004, 02:08 PM'] And don't even start on me about how my parents were to blame for our economic status. Trust me on this one, they worked hard. But when the jobs aren't there, they aren't there.

[/quote]
Azriel--

I totally hear you about this. Sometimes people catch the economic wave (late 90s dot-com bubble) and sometimes they don't (also late 90s dot-com bubble!). Just like in the depression--my grandparents' experience had nothing to do with what most people today think about the Depression. They were very poor, of course, but everyone was. According to them (not exact statistics) about 3/4 of the population still had jobs...which is not enough, of course. But they didn't see all the drama (Okies, Dust Bowl, people jumping out of buildings) that gets talked about in history books.

I can see where your folks are coming from.

(Don't they call economics the "dismal science"?)

Hsmom: War on Poverty and Great Society...same type of thing, right? My history is a tad rusty...

MG