Christians Being Persecuted/discriminated Against In The Usa

[PhuturePriest]

what tha' fa fa fa fa fonze?x10000

 

 

Is this relevant? The entire premise of the book is dumb. I understand the point but they're not thinking about it in a product way. For example, if all the black kids sit together at lunch, doesn't that also mean that all the white kids are also sitting together at lunch? So, who is doing the self segregating?

 

 

And are you comparing your experiences at work to racism? 

 

You didn't even read the overview of the book.

 

It states that all the white kids sit together. It calls that self-segregating as well. You really should read things before jumping to conclusions.

[CrossCuT]

I read the description. And thats the point. She is saying that the black people are othering others. They are all othering others. Lets not other anymore. Its not nice

 

It also talks about who white people are afraid of saying racist things for fear of being called racist. like what tha' fa fa fa fa fonze?

Edited April 24, 2014 by CrossCuT

[AugustineA]

Not sure all this is helping the OP. 

 

So.. Christians.. I think Catherine is moving in the right direction. You're going to be able to make a good argument through comparative arguments dealing with soft cultural issues. It also depends on the group.

 

For example, I was watching Al Jazeera on Easter and the news reporter made a rather snide comment about Catholics celebrating the Easter. The following story was on the Eastern Orthodox church's Easter celebration and the reporter charmingly described it as a beautiful cultural celebration.

 

Though I think you may have to soften your thesis a bit from persecution to discrimination.. 

 

gl :)

Edited April 24, 2014 by AugustineA

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

There was this very famous priest in italy whom started the itallian renewal within church circles and coverted many and saved many a lost sheep and is a saint ( forgot his name). His garments for holy mass kept going missing just about every mass for 2 years in a row and he kept celebrating holy mass and eventually the two people that where doing this admitted to it. My point is the church actually recognises such an act as persecution and not just physical attacks on the persons body and death. Such persecution is a form of direct oppression of the personage, he is a priest and needs his garments, not like someone wanting candy and not getting it, and not like some random telling you your a "blah" and not even knowing your a christian with or without a crucifix around the neck, this is not particularly persecution in my opinion. :) Just my thoughts.

 

All glory to GOD.

[Lilllabettt]

I read the description. And thats the point. She is saying that the black people are othering others. They are all othering others. Lets not other anymore. Its not nice

 

It also talks about who white people are afraid of saying racist things for fear of being called racist. like what tha' fa fa fa fa fonze?

 

lololololol

 

It just happens to be a seminal work in race studies.

Deeply surprised that someone with your understanding of functional prejudice hasn't read it (that is sarcasm my dear)

 

My point is that you, a majority member, accusing a minority person of "othering" you has about as much legitimacy as a white person accusing a black person of "othering" white people. Which is none.

 

Let us get a grip upon ourselves.

[CrossCuT]

My point is that you, a majority member, accusing a minority person of "othering" you has about as much legitimacy as a white person accusing a black person of "othering" white people. Which is none.

 

YES!!!!!!!! And that also goes for the Christian majority accusing a homosexual minority as "othering" them! 

Edited April 24, 2014 by CrossCuT

[CrossCuT]

We are all just angry people and we should not be so angry. No one should other the other. :)

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

othering is ok as long as you don't persecute the others, it is fine for people to choose to chill with mainly or only a particular type of people, like rockers chilling mainly or only with those whom enjoy rock. I don't really like it but it is really neither good or evil as long as i said there not persecuting the others. I choose not to but i don't think it's arguable because it doesn't really matter it is kind of in consequential in the minor leagues, although there are examples in australia of it being consequential in the manner of particular nationalities buying out whole suburbs over many years which seems a bit strange and paranoid to me, so i do understand the whole black and white thing being scary but assimilation is not enforceable, which australian government tried with the indigeonous population. I do believe assimialtion can take time, often a very long time, perhaps never fully attainable 100% in the sense of having so many refugees wanting to see what GOD built.

 

All glory to GOD.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

Though if born in the u.s or australia black, white or brown you should be able to chill with all colored skins, though in the u.s between african american and caucasion the wound runs deep i hear and may take many years to heal, understand that, wounds take time to heal, especially deep ones and there is often a scar remaining even if the wound does heal.

 Only Jesus can remove a scar.

 

 

All glory to GOD.

[Lilllabettt]

YES!!!!!!!! And that also goes for the Christian majority accusing a homosexual minority as "othering" them! 

 

I wasn't accusing the homosexual minority of othering me.

If anything I could accuse the pro-gay marriage/lifestyle majority of othering me.

But in fact I was only calling attention to your ludicrous assertion (below) that I, a member of a cultural minority group, am somehow "othering" you. 

 

Cuz somehow I "othered" you when I expressed irritation that you, a member of the majority, shamelessly tell minorities that their struggle is, in your words, "kind of annoying."

 

Is this the twilight zone or does kumbaya sauce have a nasty kick at the end. You tell me.

 

I dont want to be apart of the group if it means I have to be like you. 

Prayers and Love from the "others".

I just feel like this whole "Im such a good Catholic my life is poo" is kind of annoying. You feel oppressed because you have to treat everyone with love and dignity?

[Fidei Defensor]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

By devout believers, I mean people like us, who take our faith seriously. Mainstream Christianity is mostly accepted in public, so long as you're politically correct.  

 

I think it's unfair to shame people for their opinions. That may be unpopular, but everyone has the right to form their own opinion. Do I think they're correct? Mostly not. Being gay, I have heard it all. I still respect people who are opposed to this, that and the other thing. I have a differing opinion, maybe, but there is a great need to respect when exchanging ideas and opinions.

 

That all being said, peace be with you all. May you pass this peace along.

[CrossCuT]

 

But in fact I was only calling attention to your ludicrous assertion (below) that I, a member of a cultural minority group, am somehow "othering" you. Cuz somehow I "othered" you when I expressed irritation that you, a member of the majority, shamelessly tell minorities that their struggle is, in your words, "kind of annoying."

 

That was more of a lol

 

 

 

Is this the twilight zone or does kumbaya sauce have a nasty kick at the end. You tell me.

 

Actually it has a smooth finish.

[Ice_nine]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

 

qft

[Lilllabettt]

That was more of a lol

 

 

Actually it has a smooth finish.

 

Rounded maltiness that is nonetheless not overpowering. Light to medium body. Cleaner, smoother palate, less fruitness and less yeastiness. 

[CrossCuT]

This whole thread has turned stupid.

 

By devout believers, I mean people like us, who take our faith seriously. Mainstream Christianity is mostly accepted in public, so long as you're politically correct.  

 

I think it's unfair to shame people for their opinions. That may be unpopular, but everyone has the right to form their own opinion. Do I think they're correct? Mostly not. Being gay, I have heard it all. I still respect people who are opposed to this, that and the other thing. I have a differing opinion, maybe, but there is a great need to respect when exchanging ideas and opinions.

 

That all being said, peace be with you all. May you pass this peace along.

Yeah I concur, I dont even know why we deviated onto this weird tangent anyway.

 

 

But getting back to the topic, I guess if we are trying to decide if Christians are being persecuted or discriminated against, we should identify some examples.

 

As far as discrimination goes, i think you would be hard pressed to find some examples that are equal to the law passed in Arizona that is basically a huge discrimination law...not only that but Christians accross the country discriminate against homosexuals anyway even without a law passed.

 

I have no doubt people can cite some personal experiences in how they feel discriminated against as Christians, but the thing we cant really use personal narratives as a basis for a global conclusion. 

I think examples where people are ass hats are just that...ass hats. And besides we have the law in our favor where it is illegal to discriminate against someone for religious reasons.

 

Persecution examples should be weeded out as a personal persecution or a country wide or group wide persecution. How are Christians being persecuted as a whole? 

 

I think the main two areas where people claim any sort of persecution/discrimination arise from these:

Increasing acceptance of homosexual social rights

Healthcare mandate with contraception

 

 

Now Im trying to be completely objective, the gaining of rights for gays does not equal persecution of Christians.

 

 

Yes, it is not in line with the belief system however the laws themselves are just the increase in the same freedoms that heteriosexuals have. How people REACT to these laws can be different though. You can say people are doing the persecuting, but the law is not doing the persecuting. Nothing in that law says "All homosexuals can now be married....and on the first Friday of every month stone a christian."

 

But here is where I think the problem lies.... as Catholics/Christians, we believe we need to spread the good word, to convert the world, be fishers of men etc etc etc. So in THAT sense, you could say it is going against your religious views. But the country is no longer intertwined with religion with the separation of church and state in mind. The country has an obligation to uphold the liberties of all of its members...even if you dont like those other views. (as long as they arent like cray murderous views or something)

 

From an objective point of view, the Christians trying to insert their religious views into politics IS an example of persecution. Because youre essentially saying that everyone needs to believe what you believe and live the way you live. Im not saying thats wrong, because obviously being Catholic is cool beans, but from an objective view, can you see why that is?

 

 

Maybe Im rambling. I am very interested in having a conversation about this but people are super cray and aggressive about it. Id love to voice chat and get people out from under their keyboards.

 

 

My main point is Im trying to compartmentalize the angles each side is coming from.

Edited April 25, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Maggyie]

Crosscut your point is taken, but at the same time the question is not whether persecution exists at the countrywide, group wide or de jure level but whether it exists at all. Simply because our laws are (mainly) just with regard to this issue does not mean people are just. And they become less just all the time.

It often the "personal" level persecution which eventually turns into harsher systemic persecution as many groups have experienced. The OP should use these examples, and in fact the Arizona law is a good example of that happening. Cardinal George famously said "I expect to die in bed, I expect my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr." He is not a stupid man! The persecution we experience now as individuals needs to be resisted and called out if we are to avoid catastrophe.

[Credo in Deum]

My science teacher said there is no persecution or discrimination against Christians in the USA. I argued with him and he told me to right a paper for him (for extra credit, I asked if he could make it that) by Monday. I thought I should post it in the Debate Table since I am sure there are going to be some debates. Thoughts, arguments people!

 

I think there is a discrimination against Christian ( especially Catholic) morals and ethics.  One can just turn on the TV or listen to the radio and you will be bombarded with content which is morally opposed to Christian values.   Also think about this.  In 1952 Archbishop Fulton J Sheen won an Emmy for Most Outstanding Television Personality. Do you think he would win it today?  Do you actually think they would even put him on the TV or radio nowadays?  I think not. 

Edited April 26, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

I think there is a discrimination against Christian ( especially Catholic) morals and ethics.  One can just turn on the TV or listen to the radio and you will be bombarded with content which is morally opposed to Christian values.   Also think about this.  In 1952 Archbishop Fulton J Sheen won an Emmy for Most Outstanding Television Personality. Do you think he would win it today?  Do you actually think they would even put him on the TV or radio nowadays?  I think not. 

 

 

Watching t.v and movies is putting yourself in harms way deliberately. Living life isn't. You know exactly what your going to get when you switch on the t.v or watch a movie.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye

[Credo in Deum]

Watching t.v and movies is putting yourself in harms way deliberately. Living life isn't. You know exactly what your going to get when you switch on the t.v or watch a movie.

 

I think you underestimate the influence these things have on the culture and how big of a role they play in the discrimination of Christians.  If there is a constant stream of this type of content being pumped into the populace, what do you think will happen?  It will make sin the norm and will cause the populace to embrace these things and reject the values it once had; mostly Christian ones.  Once the values are rejected, do you really think it will stop there?  No, they will want to get rid of the people who still follow these values, because such people will be a burden on their consciences.  

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

 

I think you underestimate the influence these things have on the culture and how big of a role they play in the discrimination of Christians.  If there is a constant stream of this type of content being pumped into the populace, what do you think will happen?  It will make sin the norm and will cause the populace to embrace these things and reject the values it once had; mostly Christian ones.  Once the values are rejected, do you really think it will stop there?  No, they will want to get rid of the people who still follow these values, because such people will be a burden on their consciences.  

 

 

I hear what your saying, so don't watch t.v and movies if you don't wan't to be persecuted, stand against it, be one whom is in the world but not of the world. And sin has always been an excepted part of the mainstream, part of the humans, there never was a eutopia, though there may have been in some minorities to varying degrees at different times, such as the holy roman catholic church. I doubt there ever was a more than 50% practising believers to the umth degree in any nation throught history, except perhaps modern day malta, therefore we are still a minority, and always have been, though we persist in faith hope and love for the love of GOD and the love of others in charity and good will. Though this is not hopeless, on our own strength it is actually hopeless, but with the grace of GOD it is not. Perhaps one day we will tip the scales in grace and have many nations that are more the 50% practising baptised believers.

 

All glory to GOD.

 

Onward christian souls.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Tab'le De'Bah-Rye